Leica 007 - A Warning To Potential Buyers

[justalexander]

I had formulated some theories about use of the S camera that may help (if not the OP, then perhaps others who've experienced performance issues).

This morning I pulled out the S(006) to put those theories to the test and ...

MY CS35/2.5 FAILED ON START UP!

DISAPPOINTED!

Frankly, I've had so many S lens failures, I cannot recall if the 35 was one of them ... but I'm pretty sure this lens was already sent in for AF failure some time ago. I'll have to check on that. If so, then Leica's fix isn't fixing the issue ... at least earlier fixes didn't.

Moving on:

I wonder if anyone has experienced a lens failure while shooting, or are all AF failures on start up, or while changing lenses on a camera that is powered on?

I had read that the improved firmware addressing AF performance had increased the torque to much for the gearing ... torque especially evident on start-up (which perhaps could be made worse if a lens had sat for some time and was a bit more stiff). So, I thought maybe manually exercising the lens before AF might mitigate the stress.

I also thought that setting the lens on infinity might help since the lenses do that on start-up ... however when I manually set the 35 to infinity this AM, it went slightly past infinity which may be a sign that the gearing had become decoupled.

It's a mystery.

And a damned shame.

Here we go again ... once more into the breech.

Sigh.

- Marc

Hi Marc, unfortunately I cannot help you with this. Thankfully this is one problem I've not had. My lenses were purchased new and probably 12 months old at the maximum. I have heard of a number of people complaining about failed motors. How old are your lenses? Did you purchase new or second hand?

Justin

 

[Godfrey]

It's truly sad to hear all these issues with the S system. I hope all of you get your cameras and lenses sorted out by Leica properly. If it doesn't happen within your particular time need, I suspect the best course is to vote with your wallet and move to a different system.

...But my next question would be what on earth were you thinking by trusting Leica? This is a company that makes charming little products and some truly fabulous lenses. This is NOT a company that makes reliable digital products. The "Leica Service" thread in this very forum is filled with S system horror stories. ...

But this is somewhat over the top, for me. I've trusted Leica since 1969 and they've never let me down. I had one film M body that needed a viewfinder collimating and calibrate, my X2 needed a service (the four way controller buttons became unresponsive), and the M9 succumbed to the sensor cover glass corrosion problem. All three issues were taken care of expediently and at low cost (warranty on two of them). The M-P, M-D, and SL (and their lenses) have operated flawlessly since I bought them for a combined 25,000 exposures.

That's a pretty good track record considering the number of Leica cameras and lenses I've had over 40+ years, and actually significantly better than the track record of my Nikons, Canons, and Pentax cameras and lenses. The only camera equipment brand that's done better for me has been Olympus (zero failures, despite having owned, used, and abused Pen F, OM System, E system, mFT system, and a half a dozen film and digital point and shoot models).

I will continue to trust Leica, even if I will likely never own an S system.

G

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Im just skimming this thread and man this just does not sound good. Best of luck but I would be calling Leica USA to get to the bottom of this. The camera just sounds like its having a big issue. Spec or not if you can't shoot it than its worthless. Good luck

Ive been down this road with Leica with two M8s and they spent more time in Germany than I owned them. On a Professional level I can't use there gear anymore. Just to risky for me

 

[glenerrolrd]

Justin

You need to find a way to cut your losses . Once you start using your 007 ..if that ever happens..you will encounter multiple AF system failures .

Here is the AF situation again :

The AF motor utilizes a plastic gear that strips under load . See photo attached . That is the point of failure and it appears that they replace the motor assembly as a unit .

While this failure did occur with the S2 ..it came a common occurrence as photographers moved to the S 007 and then when the S 006 firmware was upgraded . The AF speed was increased and the load put on the motor/gear increased .

Failure almost always occurs when the camera is cycling thru the AF setup . When an S lens is mounted it cycles thru a focus cycle .

New lenses and lens that have not been used much are stiffer and most susceptible to failure . Lenses that need to move heavy elements or utilize floating elements fail most .

My 120CS was still in the plastic having been upgraded from a S lens . The 24 S was almost new . They failed immediately .

My dealer tells me the AF motor has not been changed ..yet he has not seen a replied lens fail . (His store has huge volume ).



My lenses arrived in Wetzler last week and are logged into the system...so the time clock has started for me.

Roger

I empathize with the frustration ...I have had much worse dealings with Leica . examples...they claimed I scratched my S2 sensor when I had never cleaned it and wanted $7000 to repair it . They refused to send us a photo of the scratched sensor . They scratched the front element (a one inch scratch ) on my Noctilux and said it came to them that way . This was on the 4th try at calibration and a $750 CLA. They returned my friends S2 after 6 months without replacing the sensor or putting the camera covering back on . Those are a small sample of my experience with Leica service.

 

[glenerrolrd]

Dave, it doesn't matter is the camera is already on and you attach the lens, or you power up with the lens attached. Either way, the protocol activates the lens AF in an initial maneuver to set the focus at infinity.

My thought was to exercise the lens manually before turning on the camera to avoid stiffness due to lack of use, and set it to infinity to avoid that initial torque.

Didn't work for the 35 that just failed. When I gently exercised that lens manually before use, I could feel that it was a bit to easy to move the focus ring compared to others.

Odd as it sounds, it seems the failure happens in the bag. However, discussions about storage procedures have come to no conclusion. No matter how the stuff is stored, it fails.

Perhaps, when you shut off the camera and remove the lens, something takes place that sets it up for failure. Who knows? It is a mystery.

The upshot of it all is that a part is failing ... no matter how, when, or where ... it fails with no discernible rhyme or reason ... it is the part failing.

The question is whether Leica is just replacing the part with the same old part ... or are they now installing a new part that solves the problem?

- Marc

Same old part but maybe a new batch from supplier. Replacement maybe in 2017.:banghead:

 

[ErikKaffehr]

Some reflections…

Hi,

All systems can fail. I have been extremely lucky, as I had only one camera that failed on me on the 45 years I have been doing photography. That camera was a Minolta XD7, that also was the basis for the Leica R4. I had two minor glitches, macro switch not working on a Konica Minolta A2 and tripod mount being loose on a Minolta 80-200/2.8 APO G. My total repair costs in 45 years have been around 200$ US. A lot of stuff passed trough my hands in those 45 years, Minoltas, Pentax 67, Konica Minoltas, quite a few generations of Sony cameras and Hasselblad system with a P45+.

But, any day my luck may end…

Hearing all those stories about Leica S issues is a bit disheartening. That said it seem there are a lot of happy Leica S users.

I am somewhat surprised with Leica's attitude to the discrepancy of distance scale, lcd display and live view AF. Modern AF systems usually have a quite accurate distance encoder and may need it for achieving correct focus.

Why on earth would you have an LCD stating 8 m focus with 3-digit precision when the lens actually is focused at infinity.

Suggesting that you would use LV when accurate focusing is needed is acknowledging that AF is not good enough for accurate work.


Best regards
Erik

 

[Speedgraphic]

It's truly sad to hear all these issues with the S system. I hope all of you get your cameras and lenses sorted out by Leica properly. If it doesn't happen within your particular time need, I suspect the best course it to vote with your wallet and move to a different system.



But this is somewhat over the top, for me. I've trusted Leica since 1969 and they've never let me down. I had one film M body that needed a viewfinder collimating and calibrate, my X2 needed a service (the four way controller buttons became unresponsive), and the M9 succumbed to the sensor cover glass corrosion problem. All three issues were taken care of expediently and at low cost (warranty on two of them). The M-P, M-D, and SL (and their lenses) have operated flawlessly since I bought them for a combined 25,000 exposures.

That's a pretty good track record considering the number of Leica cameras and lenses I've had over 40+ years, and actually significantly better than the track record of my Nikons, Canons, and Pentax cameras and lenses. The only camera equipment brand that's done better for me has been Olympus (zero failures, despite having owned, used, and abused Pen F, OM System, E system, mFT system, and a half a dozen film and digital point and shoot models).

I will continue to trust Leica, even if I will likely never own an S system.

G

I could say that I never had a problem with any of my Nikon equipment even though I have an SB-900 (some overheated often) and had a D600 (dust issue). But I don't tell people that their problems are irrelevant and I will always expect the best from Nikon. If my 58mm 1.4G required months of service (which would deny me it's use for whole wedding seasons) I'd be seriously considering Canon, Pentax, or Sony. Luckily this is not the case! But still, Nikon deserved every bad piece of press for their early handling of the D600 sensor issue. Leica is no different. Every issue that they have can be addressed, they just don't want to because it would effect the bottom line. A company with 70+ worldwide boutiques and a brand new "Leitz Park" featuring a luxury hotel can no longer hide behind the "we are a small company" line. Hasselblad is a small company, but they don't do this to their even smaller user base who is in many cases investing LESS than the cost of an S kit. I'm not saying no-one should use Leica cameras, some of them are fabulous and I love that they make the M line. I'm just saying we should be honest about them when they're not delivering on their promises.

Also, 25k exposures is like 1 year in business for my "prosumer" D750.

 

[Godfrey]

I could say that I never had a problem with any of my Nikon equipment even though I have an SB-900 (some overheated often) and had a D600 (dust issue). But I don't tell people that their problems are irrelevant and I will always expect the best from Nikon. If my 58mm 1.4G required months of service (which would deny me it's use for whole wedding seasons) I'd be seriously considering Canon, Pentax, or Sony. Luckily this is not the case! But still, Nikon deserved every bad piece of press for their early handling of the D600 sensor issue. Leica is no different. Every issue that they have can be addressed, they just don't want to because it would effect the bottom line. A company with 70+ worldwide boutiques and a brand new "Leitz Park" featuring a luxury hotel can no longer hide behind the "we are a small company" line. Hasselblad is a small company, but they don't do this to their even smaller user base who is in many cases investing LESS than the cost of an S kit. I'm not saying no-one should use Leica cameras, some of them are fabulous and I love that they make the M line. I'm just saying we should be honest about them when they're not delivering on their promises.

Also, 25k exposures is like 1 year in business for my "prosumer" D750.

You mean the D750 (like mine) that's been recalled twice for shutter issues? :toocool:

I always hope for the best, and cope with problems as they arise. It's obvious from the many posts here and elsewhere that the S system has been more fraught than it ought to be, and I sympathize with the strong emotions of the owners.

But to vilify Leica as a whole is unwarranted, just like vilifying owners and users of Leica gear because they choose to trust Leica. Compared to Nikon and Canon, Leica is a tiny company ... despite their "Leitz Park" and chain of stores. Frankly, I'd expect fewer problems with Nikon and Canon simply because they are so large and (theoretically at any rate) have money, personnel, and other resources in abundance to solve problems. The reverse has been the case for me.

G

 

[justalexander]

Consumers have a right to vilify ANY company that does not comply with legal, moral or ethical codes of conduct, whether it be Leica, Apple or Exon. I don't believe anyone on here is vilifying Leica users or owners.

With regards to the size of a company, it's relevant for certain matters but completely irrelevant when it comes to accepting responsibility for faultly product or bad service. If a company is willing to sell equipment, then it should willing to resolve the matter if there are problems.

I've clearly stated that the local service reps have been excellent and have tried to help in every way possible. I also said that when the camera works as advertised it produces AMAZING results which is one of the reasons I've persisted for so long. I also said I probably picked the lemon from the fruit bowl; every product has sample variation and while I'm not upset just because of this, it does have a way of souring a consumers view towards the entire company and for this reason it's in a companies own best interests to have very good quality control. And of course every company has the right to investigate whether complaints are genuine... my problem has been that despite evidence to the contrary, Leica have insisted the camera was operating within spec.

Legally, morally and ethically, consumers have rights. Sure it's inconvenient, time consuming and expensive for a company to recall or address problems associated with its products, but this is the responsibility they are legally required to accept once we purchase their product, and this exists regardless of the companies size or the cost of its product; whether it be for a camera, car, tv or Boeing 787.

And now for the good news - I've received correspondence from Leica saying that upon review of all my problems system isn't working within specification and we're now discussing options moving forward.

My final take on this matter is that Leica have to decide whether they're committed to the S System and whether it's intended to be a professional system. If so they need to devote the necessary resources to it, resources that their intended customers expect from a professional level product. They also need to ensure their products perform at the level promised in their marketing material, and in relation to the S System, I quote "built with the precise needs of professional photographers in mind" and "extreme robustness, excellent imaging quality and perfect matching of all its components"

Justin

 

[PeterA]

Hi Pete, if you'd taken the time to read my posts, including pictures, you'd have a pretty good idea of what my issues are. I could also regurgitate the last 11 months of communication between myself and Leica but I don't think you'd bother reading it so what's the point!

With regards to threatening legal action, I'm well within my rights. My camera has been to Germany 3 times and I continue to send Leica DNG files for them to analyse. Most countries in the world have lemon laws (including Australia). In some European countries if an item requires repair more than 3 times there is an automatic termination of the contract.

And which one of my previous posts listing the problems and providing examples didn't you understand? I could regurgitate the last 11 months of communication between Leica and myself but as you cant even read a few posts I don't see the point in boring you dozens of pages of emails. There is also no extreme buyer regret or a preference for an SUV, just an illustration that the contents of many of our camera bags costs more than a 2 tonne luxury SUV. I'm certain that if you'd spent $85,000 on something only to suffer problems on a daily bases for 11 months you'd have told someone else by now! In my case I've spent 11 months trying to resolve the issue with Leica and have only just made my thoughts public... which is my right as a consumer.

Maybe Samsung Galaxy users shouldn't be able to return their cameras without giving specific information as to HOW it exploded even though if it has clearly exploded. Or Volkswagen should be allowed to continue breaking the law. And the lithium batteries that caught fire on Boeing 787 aircraft should be left there and not replaced. Or cars with faulty airbags, brakes or transmissions shouldn't be recalled?

I suggest you take some of your own medicine, and next time you purchase something that breaks or doesn't work as expected you just accept the loss without trying to return, replace or repair the item.

I've read all of your posts mate. I offered up a simple process that I have used in the past - once in order to get a camera replaced from Nikon.

I can't respond to all the emails you haven't posted or all the history you say you have that hasn't delivered a satisfactory outcome - sorry.
As for Leica - I have had only exceptional service using their product for over 20 years now - including repalcement of CCD rust in M9 and MM free gratis. I abandoned the S system after being an early adopter and dumping a complete Hassleblad system for 30cents in the dollar - a system which always worked flawlesly - that was a huge error on my part btw - exiting Hasselblad and switching to S system. I cut my losses by stopping further investment in S and only using Manual focus lenses whislt I had the camera - the autofocus was always bogus - except under extremely fabourable circumstances - anyone who has used the S system cab tellyou that - except that autofocus for critical focus is often less than satisfactory - on any system.

It is obvious from reports on here that there are serious mechanical flaws with S lenses - perhaps it is a reason why no one is buying S system gear anymore. I'm genuinely sorry to hear of your extreme misfortune with the Camera you have and genuinely surprised that your delaer has been able to achieve nada for you.

I do think that you will get a camera replacement in due course if you persevere - however that wont stop potential isssues with lenses as many above testify to again and again - happenning to you.

Fortunately, my Leica M's and SL demonstrate no such issues - it isnt an accident that my gear works pretty well for me - I spend a lot of time researching and testing before I buy - every company is captive to OEM suppliers - there is a very long chain of contributors to any system - plenty of scope for poor outcomes unfortunately.

 

[algrove]

I really do hope you get your issues sorted out or at least a good portion of your money back. But my next question would be what on earth were you thinking by trusting Leica? This is a company that makes charming little products and some truly fabulous lenses. This is NOT a company that makes reliable digital products. The "Leica Service" thread in this very forum is filled with S system horror stories. If you are a rich guy who wants to take the best possible pictures of your kids and flowers, then sure, a 007 and 100/2 Summicron is the kit for you. If you need to rely on a product that works, come on! Hasselblad, Phase One, Pentax. You could have purchased 2 645z bodies and the FABULOUS 28-45 AND sourced the rare but lovely 25/4 for less than the investment required of an S kit. Why did you need a demo when you were already invested in Hasselblad? It's basically what you have but a little better. From the perspective of the camera body, the Pentax is MUCH more stable than anything currently available. Even if you were unsatisfied with the Hasselblad you know they make good on their service and warranty promises. Sending anything to Germany is a black hole. If you want to own a Leica my advice would have been to get an M and enjoy it for what it is. I believe they called it S because their intention was to "Squander" any and all potential of the game changing design by implementing poor reliability and the worst after-market service in the business.

+1 on the Pentax which I owned and loved.

 

[ZHNL]

Nice thread, good reading. Op's experience match mine.

 

[ZHNL]

This thread is will probably inflame many readers but I'm talking from my own personal experience.

11 months ago I decided to upgrade my Hasselblad H3DII (28mm, 35mm, 80mm, 50-110mm lenses)

Hasselblad's distributor in Australia is a joke and had been nothing but rude an arrogant since purchasing my H system. To make matters worse, when I asked about testing a H5D 50C WIFI I was told there were non in the country but that I could purchase one and return it if it didn't suit my needs. Apart from RIDICULOUS, I was financing the camera and therefore this wouldn't have been possible.

Phase One appeared was another option and has very good support here in Australia however their 28mm is an old design with mushy corners and so was not suitable given I shoot interiors and architecture and need a good wide angle.

Pentax has the same distributor as Hasselblad and surprise surprise, there were no bodies or lenses in the country to test!

This left Leica... with the promise of, (and I quote) "purely digital camera system (and was) built with the precise needs of professional photographers in mind" combined with "extreme robustness, excellent imaging quality and perfect matching of all its components" I decided to give it a test. I was able to borrow a body and lens and the customer service seemed exceptional.

There were a few quirks and niggles that I thought I would get accustomed to, or that would be ironed out in future firmware releases so I set aside my existing line of Hasselblad lenses and dumped $85,000 on a new Leica system!

The problems began in the first month. The camera is unable to focus accurately. I recently tested the 70mm lens on a black can of deodorant on a white background. In 16 frames the camera returned 6 different distances ranging from 1.5 metres to 10 meters. The actual distance was closer to 3 metres.

The camera has been back to Germany 3 times in 10 months for checking. They assure me it's within technical specifications but I continue to send them examples of out of focus images. They have also advised me the lens barrel markings and LCD distance should not be used to set focus but instead live view should be used in all situations in which focus is critical (I would think for any photographer focus is critical for EVERY image).

Throw in a battery charger that indicated batteries were charged but when I began a job the camera indicated ALL 3 batteries had no charge. I had to leave the shoot to go home and collect my Sony A7RII to complete the job.

Confetti noise, weird blobs on the sensor, a firmware update that crippled live view for 4 weeks and a 30-90 zoom that was mushy in the corners are amongst many other problems.

I'm now trying to terminate the contract and buy something I can rely on but they have so far refused to accept there is a problem with the system saying the camera is operating within technical specifications... Yeah... like the M8 was operating within technical specifications with it's clear IR filter problem.

The number of megapixels and crop (3x4 v 2x3 format) are subjective matters that depend on one's shooting style and the type of job you're shooting. Having a camera you can rely on is CRITICAL regardless of your style or assignment.

When you nail a shot it looks beautiful, but I can't place any faith (or my career) in a camera system so riddled with bugs, brought to you by a camera company more concerned about releasing titanium versions of its Leica Q, Leica M's with ping pong rubber grip and limited edition red coloured M lenses.

I've read many other horror stories so would be keen to hear from other S system users about their own experiences.

Sorry to hear what happen to OP.

I noticed S camera AF problem as soon as I bought the system. Basically, it has real problems to deal with fine detail focusing subject such as small leaf, grass etc at long distance for those situation, I get "consistent"AF fail. For general use, I also find reliability issue like OP report. For same subject, I don't get the same AF results. Even for high contrast stuff(you would think), I still can get AF failure sometime. I also remember the AF system has different sensitivity to vertical or horizontal subject suggest AF point is not cross typed.

As Someone early reply in this thread suggested, I usually just manual focus whenever I have enough time to do that. If not, I always virtually check AF before capture. for critical shot, I also make sure focus after capture. (I was burned once to find out that many of my shots from Zion was off even I though and AF point is well defined)

I have used S2 and S006 and S007. I sent my S2 for clean sensor and S006 to Leica just want make sure my unit is in spec. (I expect to be told it is even though I see lots of problem) In the time of sending the units. I got loan units of S2P and S007, The problem is there for every units I can hold off. The reason I know it is in spec because it can lock focus if you really give it well defend target. and I know it is in spec because I know spec is sloppy.

I was hoping S007 will improve upon this problem, but it is not. And focusing distance scale in LCD is a gimmick at best in my field use. For same target,(Tree in distant) I can get all kind of reading. It is not a surprise as AF doesn't know where the target is at, how can it report good results. This directly turn off all my S007 desire. I prefer 006 color anyway.

I especially hate it AF implementation of hyper focusing. I notice at small aperture, if camera detect the focusing point is within DOF window, it will not re-engage the focusing. It is really annoy that I have to Wide open the aperture to re engage the AF. This is a big flaw to me as no way the camera know what is optimized DOF window I want to cover and where is my main subject I want absolutely in focus. Plus, I have no idea if those distance is trustable anyway. This pose a huge problem in field for me. For landscape, you will assume the lens focus at WO so that you can choose hyper focus point yourself to cover DOF by shooting at small aperture but focus WO. this way you can use best suitable aperture for the IQ. (S glass is capable shoot landscape WO at low light if no DOF need cover) but many case I have no idea where is the camera focusing point if it is not re engage the focusing.

For me, I don't have any other systems approaching the file quality I can get from S glass and sensor combined.(I test pretty much all 35mm system) The CCD color are beautiful, 2nd to none and the OVF are the best. Shooting experience is nothing can touch it. Operating at low light and cold weather with glove is awesome. All this overcome the flaw for me, especially I personally really enjoy manual focus shooting even with 35mm system. Also I have to say AF seems works fine at portrait distance say 2~3m for 70mm, 1~2m for 35mm or 2~4m for 100mm most of time, as DOF is bigger enough to overcome loss AF tolerance. closer than that, I mostly manual. It is a case by case scenario judge by experience.

If you set expectation to be about AF performance of old medium format film or Digital, you will probably be fine. If you compare S to modern Canikon, you will for sure be disappointed with its performance.

So, I have a feeling replace units won't solve the issue you are seeing. I have handle over 5 S unit range from S2 to S007. I can always make it AF fail if I want, I know it is mostly a technology limitation other than a single event.

 

[peterv]

I wonder if anyone has experienced a lens failure while shooting, or are all AF failures on start up, or while changing lenses on a camera that is powered on?

On my S2-P, which did not have the improved firmware addressing AF performance, I've had two AF failures on my 120CS, always on start up, always a couple of days after the lens worked flawlessly. There had not been a lens-change prior to these failures.

I had read that the improved firmware addressing AF performance had increased the torque to much for the gearing ... torque especially evident on start-up (which perhaps could be made worse if a lens had sat for some time and was a bit more stiff). So, I thought maybe manually exercising the lens before AF might mitigate the stress.

It's what I do nowadays, maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't. Without official guide lines from Leica, all we can do is try.

Best,

Peter

 

[D&A]

+1 on the Pentax which I owned and loved.

I echo these thoughts on the Pentax 645 system.

Dave (D&A)

 

[justalexander]

I really do hope you get your issues sorted out or at least a good portion of your money back. But my next question would be what on earth were you thinking by trusting Leica? This is a company that makes charming little products and some truly fabulous lenses. This is NOT a company that makes reliable digital products. The "Leica Service" thread in this very forum is filled with S system horror stories. If you are a rich guy who wants to take the best possible pictures of your kids and flowers, then sure, a 007 and 100/2 Summicron is the kit for you. If you need to rely on a product that works, come on! Hasselblad, Phase One, Pentax. You could have purchased 2 645z bodies and the FABULOUS 28-45 AND sourced the rare but lovely 25/4 for less than the investment required of an S kit. Why did you need a demo when you were already invested in Hasselblad? It's basically what you have but a little better. From the perspective of the camera body, the Pentax is MUCH more stable than anything currently available. Even if you were unsatisfied with the Hasselblad you know they make good on their service and warranty promises. Sending anything to Germany is a black hole. If you want to own a Leica my advice would have been to get an M and enjoy it for what it is. I believe they called it S because their intention was to "Squander" any and all potential of the game changing design by implementing poor reliability and the worst after-market service in the business.

The local Hasselblad distributor is terrible! I've had nothing but trouble with them for the 10 years I owned my Blad. When I expressed interest in the H5D 50C wifi they didn't even have one in the country to test! Nor did they have a H5 60 for me to test. Basically the distributor didn't carry any stock and Whet was told that I would have to buy it, and THEN if I didn't like it they would return my money. NO THANKS!!! I looked into the Pentax, but they have the same distributor as Hasselblad and guess what... No body or lenses for me to test!

The Phase One XF was brand new, an absolute monster of a camera, and its 28mm wide angle lens is awful on the edges. They still haven't updated it to Blue Ring status 12 months on...

Leica were very helpful and accomodating so I thought I'd take a chance... When you live on the least densely populated country on earth, and New York state has a higher population, it's more difficult to get access to product, and if you don't like the distributor then you're pretty much stuck!!!

 

[Speedgraphic]

The local Hasselblad distributor is terrible! I've had nothing but trouble with them for the 10 years I owned my Blad. When I expressed interest in the H5D 50C wifi they didn't even have one in the country to test! Nor did they have a H5 60 for me to test. Basically the distributor didn't carry any stock and Whet was told that I would have to buy it, and THEN if I didn't like it they would return my money. NO THANKS!!! I looked into the Pentax, but they have the same distributor as Hasselblad and guess what... No body or lenses for me to test!

The Phase One XF was brand new, an absolute monster of a camera, and its 28mm wide angle lens is awful on the edges. They still haven't updated it to Blue Ring status 12 months on...

Leica were very helpful and accomodating so I thought I'd take a chance... When you live on the least densely populated country on earth, and New York state has a higher population, it's more difficult to get access to product, and if you don't like the distributor then you're pretty much stuck!!!

You couldn't have rented one from anywhere? Plus you were already familiar with the Hasselblad system so what's to test? Sounds like jumping in with Leica carried the same risk, except everything is much worse than a Hasselblad except for the lenses. With Phase you could always get a tech cam for the ultra wides and they're the best of anything.

 

[erlingmm]

The local Hasselblad distributor is terrible! I've had nothing but trouble with them for the 10 years I owned my Blad. When I expressed interest in the H5D 50C wifi they didn't even have one in the country to test! Nor did they have a H5 60 for me to test. Basically the distributor didn't carry any stock and Whet was told that I would have to buy it, and THEN if I didn't like it they would return my money. NO THANKS!!! I looked into the Pentax, but they have the same distributor as Hasselblad and guess what... No body or lenses for me to test!

The Phase One XF was brand new, an absolute monster of a camera, and its 28mm wide angle lens is awful on the edges. They still haven't updated it to Blue Ring status 12 months on...

Leica were very helpful and accomodating so I thought I'd take a chance... When you live on the least densely populated country on earth, and New York state has a higher population, it's more difficult to get access to product, and if you don't like the distributor then you're pretty much stuck!!!

Just wait till you (hopefully) get the replacement S007, you're gonna love it !

 

[jecxz]

This thread is will probably inflame many readers but I'm talking from my own personal experience.

11 months ago I decided to upgrade my Hasselblad H3DII (28mm, 35mm, 80mm, 50-110mm lenses)

Hasselblad's distributor in Australia is a joke and had been nothing but rude an arrogant since purchasing my H system. To make matters worse, when I asked about testing a H5D 50C WIFI I was told there were non in the country but that I could purchase one and return it if it didn't suit my needs. Apart from RIDICULOUS, I was financing the camera and therefore this wouldn't have been possible....sing titanium versions of its Leica Q, Leica M's with ping pong rubber grip and limited edition red coloured M lenses.

I've read many other horror stories so would be keen to hear from other S system users about their own experiences.

First, I read through these 2 pages and my heart goes out to you; it also brought back memories for me. You have certain legal rights and you need a qualified lawyer to get your $85,000 back (the EU laws may be on your side given your troubles but hire an attorney immediately). This is the first thing I want to say.

Second, I would have advised going back to Hasselblad (which I use) however you are not the first one I know to complain about the dealer in Australia. Unfortunately your situation seems to be an obstacle without solution and I know Hasselblad stands by their products everywhere, even bypassing terrible dealers when necessary. That is the definition of a great company.

Third, I trust Marc, his word is golden, however I am shocked to read his disappointment with his Leica gear given his prior posts about switching from Hasselblad to Leica several years ago. I know guys switched from H to L from praise from good people like Marc and this news is somewhat of a shock to me.

Where is your dealer in all this?
When an end-customer has an issue with a manufacturer the worst* they can do is threaten to with-hold their (individual) business. When a dealer has an issue with the manufacturer they can threaten to with-hold their (entire dealerships') business...

This unfortunately is not always true and I had the unfortunate experience to upgrade from Hasselblad film to digital and dropped $65,000 and after multiple issues (and gear going back and forth to H) the dealer said, and I quote, "I just won't ruin my relationship with Hasselblad to go to bat for your issues." I immediately bypassed the dealer (I will not name them) and went directly to Hasselblad and they took care of me and treated me with respect and I was incredibly relieved. I will never switch from Hasselblad, I use their ancient H3DII39s and they have never let me down. However, with that said, I know your dealer may be barrier.

Lastly, be careful what you write here so it does not damage any rights you may have legally against Leica. I wish for you a quick solution and perhaps in the end you might be able to bypass the bad dealer and return back to Hasselblad, which is the most tested and complete system in my opinion. It has the years behind it and the company is fantastic. I rarely post in forums any more but after reading your troubles I wanted to say a word. Good luck and happy holidays and New Year.

Kind regards,
Derek Jecxz

Derek Jecxz Photography
https://www.facebook.com/derek.jecxz.photographer

 

[justalexander]

First, I read through these 2 pages and my heart goes out to you; it also brought back memories for me. You have certain legal rights and you need a qualified lawyer to get your $85,000 back (the EU laws may be on your side given your troubles but hire an attorney immediately). This is the first thing I want to say.

Second, I would have advised going back to Hasselblad (which I use) however you are not the first one I know to complain about the dealer in Australia. Unfortunately your situation seems to be an obstacle without solution and I know Hasselblad stands by their products everywhere, even bypassing terrible dealers when necessary. That is the definition of a great company.

Third, I trust Marc, his word is golden, however I am shocked to read his disappointment with his Leica gear given his prior posts about switching from Hasselblad to Leica several years ago. I know guys switched from H to L from praise from good people like Marc and this news is somewhat of a shock to me.



This unfortunately is not always true and I had the unfortunate experience to upgrade from Hasselblad film to digital and dropped $65,000 and after multiple issues (and gear going back and forth to H) the dealer said, and I quote, "I just won't ruin my relationship with Hasselblad to go to bat for your issues." I immediately bypassed the dealer (I will not name them) and went directly to Hasselblad and they took care of me and treated me with respect and I was incredibly relieved. I will never switch from Hasselblad, I use their ancient H3DII39s and they have never let me down. However, with that said, I know your dealer may be barrier.

Lastly, be careful what you write here so it does not damage any rights you may have legally against Leica. I wish for you a quick solution and perhaps in the end you might be able to bypass the bad dealer and return back to Hasselblad, which is the most tested and complete system in my opinion. It has the years behind it and the company is fantastic. I rarely post in forums any more but after reading your troubles I wanted to say a word. Good luck and happy holidays and New Year.

Kind regards,
Derek Jecxz

Derek Jecxz Photography
https://www.facebook.com/derek.jecxz.photographer

Thanks Derek. It appears the problem is complex... After weighing up which features you want (because no camera has them all) - You have to hope you don't pick the lemon of the bunch - Then hope your rep will be just as helpful when problems arise as they were when they took your money - Then hope that the company will stand behind its product.

I'm now considering going back to using my Blad, but the distributor is terrible and they don't have a replacement program like Phase if your gear is out of action. My Blad was definitely more reliable than the Leica, but the reps are far less helpful...

I've been doing some reading of other threads and it appears that everyone is having problems regardless of their system. Some are definitely more reliable than others and some provide better quality results than others. But if for some reason you decide to buy the less reliable system because it has features you want, the reps and company should stand behind their product. In fact, EVERY rep and company should stand behind their product!

Justin