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Leica Service

doug

Active member
They don't pick up the phone, voicemail box is full. Infuriating. It's not like I'm expecting free service, I have the cash for repairs and am willing to pay for repairs. Send me the f***ing estimate.
I got through to customer service this morning. The technician who will be working on the lens (he is also Customer Care manager) has not gotten a response from Germany re: parts availability. I gave 'em a poke, now let's see how they respond.

Whats your plan? Do you use other products even though you prefer Leicas just because service NJ sucks?
I'm currently using a Sony with Canon L lenses. If repair is going to be a problem going forward I won't risk damaging any of my Leica equipment by doing anything as hazardous as taking the stuff outdoors (which, BTW, is where my subjects are).

Or do you try to give them more pressure to get a better treatment in the future? I would escelate the situation if I was treated like this.
I impressed on the customer care ppl today that it's been FIVE MONTHS and this one lens represents a substantial investment for me. I won't be buying any more Leica equipment as long as the service is so abysmal.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Doug, could you got through and I fully understand you dont buy anything else until customer service over there improves.
 

pesto

Member
I just received notice from Leica stating that they are going to replace my S 24 which was sent in last week with a new lens.
I am more than well pleased and can not imagine what more they could have done.
 

algrove

Well-known member
ok, I dont get it. Whats your plan? Do you use other products even though you prefer Leicas just because service NJ sucks? Or do you try to give them more pressure to get a better treatment in the future? I would escelate the situation if I was treated like this.
I have sold all my Leica gear (many bodies and 60 M lenses and 25 R lenses) except for the Q (and that includes multiple camera bodies as Roger knows and also uses).

My biggest disappointment with Leica was back when the M240 came out and I was having a lot of lockups and using the EVF which I mainly needed for eye sight problems. So I went to Germany from Florida and showed them my lockups and their reply was it never happened to us. Later this was an apparent fix via FW, but I bought a couple (you must buy two if you use Leica since repairs take forever) of M-P's plus new M246's.

During the same trip I complained that my cable release threads were making cable releases go in at an angle. Their reply again at CS was it has never happened to us. A year later they acknowledged a supplier had make mistakes and some cable releases were defective and mine was replaced, but only after a year of problems.

I tried a lot of avenues, but they obviously did not care too much. So now I happily own an XF+Q3-100 for my landscape and other brands for my street. I can now USE my gear without head aches since repair service is top notch now. I cannot believe I put up with Leica for SOOOOOO long.
 

JorisV

New member
I just received notice from Leica stating that they are going to replace my S 24 which was sent in last week with a new lens.
I am more than well pleased and can not imagine what more they could have done.
Was the lens still under warranty?
 
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D&A

Well-known member
Its sad but in many more cases than not, when one finds an issue or anomoly with a product, thats an issue preventing the product from being used normally or reliably, most compnaies respond with the corporate line "we never heard of had anyone experience such an issue". Its not restricted to photographic companies. I never understood the logic of doing so except maybe their concern for liability or simply trying to avoid bad press.

This is even the case when hundreds in this day of the internet report having the same issue.

A recent example is a well know world wide manufacturer of bike racks. A new model of their roof bike rack would almost in all cases have the bike fork quick release that holds the frame to the rack crack and fail. I went through 14 new ones and within a week of owning each, they all failed and came this close to having my bike fly off on the highway. A call to their service department was met with a " We never heard of such of a problem".. This after the model was out for almost a year. The upshot? The gov't just a month ago forced them to order a national (and my guess a international) recall due to a near 100% failure rate.

Nikon on the other hand when it comes to sending in equipment for warranty service pulls the stunt of coming back with a blanket "Impact damage", not covered under warrenty and it will be a out of pocket cost. In virtually all cases absolutely no mishandling or imapct occured. Fortunately there is an internet and with a few thousand people reporting the same tactic was tried on them. A call to upper level management gets them to back off. Apparently and sadly they still engage in this practice and to a smaller extent has now spread to some other companies doing the same thing to generate income.

I find this very sad and unfortunate , especially when many photographic companies are struggling to keep their bottom line up.

Dave (D&A)
 
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PeterA

Well-known member
A bit strange that Leica NJ is as poorly co-ordinated as I have read above.
Service in Australia is excellent - either from local service center or if required sent to Germany.

Service for Leica equipment in my experience in Australia - is far better than service for Canon ore Nikon or the non existant service one gets from Sony.

So genarilisations about 'Leica' service are just that.
 

JohnBrew

Active member
Nikon on the other hand when it comes to sending in equipment for warranty service pulls the stunt of coming back with a blanket "Impact damage", not covered under warrenty and it will be a out of pocket cost. In virtually all cases absolutely no mishandling or imapct occured. Fortunately there is an internet and with a few thousand people reporting the same tactic was tried on them. A call to upper level management gets them to back off. Apparently and sadly they still engage in this practice and to a smaller extent has now spread to some other companies doing the same thing to generate income.

I find this very sad and unfortunate , especially when many photographic companies are struggling to keep their bottom line up.

Dave (D&A)
Hi Dave, I must have a camera death wish - my D810 started acting up, sent it in and the good ol' "impact damage" came back. Today I was informed the repair is held up for "parts". This is all after Nikon put in a new shutter. First Nikon I ever had a problem with!
Since my other camera is an S I'm kinda waiting for the shoe to drop. I know there are many (some?) owners who have never had a problem and I hope to be included in that number. The sensor corrosion issue scares hell out of me. I have taken pause to consider upgrading to 007 or ditch it all and go with Hasselblad.
BTW, I also dumped all my M gear after 16-17 years of rangefinders. And agree that if you need rangefinder repairs use DAG.
FWIW,
John
 

D&A

Well-known member
Hi Dave, I must have a camera death wish - my D810 started acting up, sent it in and the good ol' "impact damage" came back. Today I was informed the repair is held up for "parts". This is all after Nikon put in a new shutter. First Nikon I ever had a problem with!
Since my other camera is an S I'm kinda waiting for the shoe to drop. I know there are many (some?) owners who have never had a problem and I hope to be included in that number. The sensor corrosion issue scares hell out of me. I have taken pause to consider upgrading to 007 or ditch it all and go with Hasselblad.
BTW, I also dumped all my M gear after 16-17 years of rangefinders. And agree that if you need rangefinder repairs use DAG.
FWIW,
John
John, sorry to hear the bad news and it doesn't surprise me that Nikon came back with impact damage. Even if out of warranty, I would atill escalate it up to upper management to let them know emphatically, that no such impact or heavy handed handling ever occured with the body Even out of warranty, their use of this term in Nikons eye seems to give them licence to charge even more than they normally would and of course deny free repair if still under warranty.

Its shocking that they apply this catch all phrase under virtually any equipment sent in if not functioning correctly. One day I'd like to send in one of their pro cameras with no battery or one of their flashes with one of the AA batteries put in backwards and for them to return their assessment of impact damage. It wouldn't surprise me based on what I have heard and experienced.

Reputable companies should not be engaging in such practices.

Dave (D&A)
 
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fotografz

Well-known member
Yet another failure of a S lens.

Have you ever been so angry that you just get numb to it all?

CS70 worked a few weeks ago, now the motor just spins and there is no AF function ... again.

This lens spent eons in Germany just awhile ago. Now it has to go back again.

:angry:

- Marc
 

algrove

Well-known member
Many just will not take this any longer. We have paid high prices for products that spend ions in repair. At times many of us have purchased two of the same items so during service repair times we have at least one item working.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I had thought the S(006) and M9 Monochrome where all I'd need for many years to come. I love the images from both of these cameras. I don't need more meg, video, or some trendy feature, nor want to spend oodles of money to buy the latest-greatest.

Now I have a S system I'm not sure will work each time I reach for it, and more times than is even slightly reasonable ... something doesn't work.

Plus, I have to constantly inspect the sensor of the $8,000 MM for fear of corrosion.

Hopefully, I can get a loaner for the CS70 while my lens disappears into the black hole of Leica Service.

The more times I have to deal with this, the more I fear that the sloppy way they handle service will eventually result in a lost lens.

Now I feel trapped with an expensive system I cannot trust, with resale effected by new offerings and a poor reputation for quality and service.

Depressing.

Exasperating.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
I had thought the S(006) and M9 Monochrome where all I'd need for many years to come. I love the images from both of these cameras. I don't need more meg, video, or some trendy feature, nor want to spend oodles of money to buy the latest-greatest.

Now I have a S system I'm not sure will work each time I reach for it, and more times than is even slightly reasonable ... something doesn't work.

Plus, I have to constantly inspect the sensor of the $8,000 MM for fear of corrosion.

Hopefully, I can get a loaner for the CS70 while my lens disappears into the black hole of Leica Service.

The more times I have to deal with this, the more I fear that the sloppy way they handle service will eventually result in a lost lens.

Now I feel trapped with an expensive system I cannot trust, with resale effected by new offerings and a poor reputation for quality and service.

Depressing.

Exasperating.


My MM is in Germany having its badly corroded chip changed.
at least Leica had the decency to fix that fatal bug.

Hopefully they acknowledge the systemic issues in S lenses and do somethign about it - fingers crossed for you.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
When I look back over all the years and myriad of gear I have worked with, nothing comes close to the failure rate, and poor service time/communication of my Leica S system journey ... premium gear that was supposed to be for professional use and was advertised that way.

This includes some early digital equipment that was fraught with growing pains and questionable engineering:

A very early Imacon DB that was quite temperamental, but once sorted was a work horse for many years.

Or the ill fated Contax N Digital ... the first full frame DSLR with a 6 meg Phillips CCD sensor ... that ate AA batteries at a ferocious rate due to poor power management and lack of the better batteries we now have ... not to mention the worst proprietary processing software ever conceived by man, something that was fixed when a group of us petitioned Thomas Knoll to support the Contax ND RAW files in Adobe Camera Raw. In my opinion, the Contax N Digital struggle is what prompted Kyocera to abandon photography equipment, or at least was the straw that broke the Camel's back.

The only Hasselblad fiasco I experienced in a decade of using their digital products was the overly ambitious H2D/22 that shot DNG Raw files (the first to do so), but was not ready for prime time and proved to be the very definition of "finicky". Hasselblad was apologetic, admitted their error, and with no questions asked replaced the camera with a new H2D using their 3FR RAW file format.

All these were pretty significant issues, but isolated ones that were resolved one way or another.

But this S experience is beyond the pale. It is systematic and epidemic.

What mystifies me is that I do not recall the S lenses failing like this during the early stages of the system. I had 3 or four S lenses that I used a lot for years, and not one failure. Only after I swapped up for the CS versions did the failures began. However, it isn't just CS versions that are systematically failing, all of them are susceptible to the AF issue. This may be coincidental, or could suggest some change had taken place in the manufacture that is now failing.

Leica needs to get ahead of this, and deal with the service issue pronto!

At least they are fixing stuff ... but it is so painful and time consuming as more and more failures happen that at some point one may have to cut and run. A shame, since there is nothing else out there that I'd like over the Leica images these cameras help me make.

- Marc
 

JohnBrew

Active member
Marc, I haven't yet felt your pain, but...
I recently purchased an S35 which had the Leica repair to the motor gear. I understand Leica is replacing the plastic gear with a metal one - quite similar to the problem I had with my 60's era Maserati's electric windows. However, I wonder if all repair facilities have the metal gear in stock and if some of the repairs consisted of replacing the gear with the same spec plastic component :facesmack:.
But mostly the situation sucks and Leica's lack of forthcoming only exacerbates the issue.
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
What mystifies me is that I do not recall the S lenses failing like this during the early stages of the system. I had 3 or four S lenses that I used a lot for years, and not one failure. Only after I swapped up for the CS versions did the failures began. However, it isn't just CS versions that are systematically failing, all of them are susceptible to the AF issue. This may be coincidental, or could suggest some change had taken place in the manufacture that is now failing.

Leica needs to get ahead of this, and deal with the service issue pronto!

At least they are fixing stuff ... but it is so painful and time consuming as more and more failures happen that at some point one may have to cut and run. A shame, since there is nothing else out there that I'd like over the Leica images these cameras help me make.

- Marc

It has been suggested that firmware updates around the time of the S 006 to speed up AF might
have increased the rate and number of lens failures. Supposedly the faster ramp speed creates much
higher torque that may overwhelm the specs of the gear. So perhaps those early lenses were protected
by the slower AF.

Irregardless this situation reveals the need for a complete revision of the AF mechanism ... the bandaid
approach is not working if previously repaired lenses are now failing.

Bob
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
When I look back over all the years and myriad of gear I have worked with, nothing comes close to the failure rate, and poor service time/communication of my Leica S system journey ... premium gear that was supposed to be for professional use and was advertised that way.

This includes some early digital equipment that was fraught with growing pains and questionable engineering:

A very early Imacon DB that was quite temperamental, but once sorted was a work horse for many years.

Or the ill fated Contax N Digital ... the first full frame DSLR with a 6 meg Phillips CCD sensor ... that ate AA batteries at a ferocious rate due to poor power management and lack of the better batteries we now have ... not to mention the worst proprietary processing software ever conceived by man, something that was fixed when a group of us petitioned Thomas Knoll to support the Contax ND RAW files in Adobe Camera Raw. In my opinion, the Contax N Digital struggle is what prompted Kyocera to abandon photography equipment, or at least was the straw that broke the Camel's back.

The only Hasselblad fiasco I experienced in a decade of using their digital products was the overly ambitious H2D/22 that shot DNG Raw files (the first to do so), but was not ready for prime time and proved to be the very definition of "finicky". Hasselblad was apologetic, admitted their error, and with no questions asked replaced the camera with a new H2D using their 3FR RAW file format.

All these were pretty significant issues, but isolated ones that were resolved one way or another.

But this S experience is beyond the pale. It is systematic and epidemic.

What mystifies me is that I do not recall the S lenses failing like this during the early stages of the system. I had 3 or four S lenses that I used a lot for years, and not one failure. Only after I swapped up for the CS versions did the failures began. However, it isn't just CS versions that are systematically failing, all of them are susceptible to the AF issue. This may be coincidental, or could suggest some change had taken place in the manufacture that is now failing.

Leica needs to get ahead of this, and deal with the service issue pronto!

At least they are fixing stuff ... but it is so painful and time consuming as more and more failures happen that at some point one may have to cut and run. A shame, since there is nothing else out there that I'd like over the Leica images these cameras help me make.

- Marc
The issue with the S lens (increased failure rate ) may have started with the new software for the S 007 . A good source told me that testing my lenses on a 007 could trigger lens failure (as the lens firmware would be updated ) . :banghead:
 

aDam007

New member
Yet another failure of a S lens.

Have you ever been so angry that you just get numb to it all?

CS70 worked a few weeks ago, now the motor just spins and there is no AF function ... again.

This lens spent eons in Germany just awhile ago. Now it has to go back again.

:angry:

- Marc

Yep... Most of my Leica gear is gone. Only have a few things left to sell and then I'm FREE!!
Don't know what I'll move onto. The Fuji X-T2 is a great little camera, so perhaps I'll take a very close look at the GFX.

Will still keep one M body and the 50APO. Simple because I like rangefinders and the 50APO is stellar.
 
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