Lens suggestions for small view camera for digital

[Allthink_]

You did not make a mistake! The Pentax plate will allow you to use Pentax 645 lenses, and Pentax 67 lenses (with an adapter).

You do not need a longer rail and bellows. The flange focal length of Pentax 645 is 70.87mm. That is the distance on a Pentax 645 camera between the outer surface of the lens mount on the camera body and the film plane (or sensor plane). On your Actus, one way to use the lenses is to determine where the rear standard has to be for the outer surface of the Pentax 645 Cambo lens plate to be 70.87mm from the sensor plane. This is how you have to use lenses with close focusing systems, like the Pentax 645 35mm lenses (all three versions). Pentax 645 lenses that are what is called "unit focus" designs can be set to infinity and focused by moving the camera back and forth on the rail. The Pentax 645 75mm is a good example of a unit focusing lens. Turning the focus ring simply moves the front and rear lens groups back and forth at the same rate.

It is highly unlikely that you will ever use a lens in a Copal 1 shutter on your Actus. That shutter tends to be for longer focal lengths. However, this is the lens plate I would have recommended that you buy because it is the ideal platform for adapting other lenses. Cambo would prefer that you buy one lens plate for every lens you use, but that's not necessary.

The hole in the Copal 1 lens plate is almost exactly the diameter of M42x1 components. I have had some Copal 1 boards that were a bit on the tight side. A very light sanding of the sides of the hole fixed that; sometimes it's just too much paint.

For "Leica Thread Mount" lenses (39mm x 1/26th inch), buy an inexpensive LTM to M42x1 adapter from China. They come in many different styles. The one I prefer has a thin rim. Here's an example on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/284472008266

For Copal 0 lenses, buy an inexpensive Copal 0 to M42x1 adapter from China. This is the one I use: https://www.ebay.com/itm/395040005807

Once you have an adapter from LTM to M42x1 or from Copal 0 to M42x1 on your lenses, mounting them to your lens plate is simple, and you have a couple options.

(1) You can drop the threaded M42x1 end of the lens through the hole and lock it to the plate with a suitable M42x1 ring. There are many options. If you have room on the back of the plate for this part to be flush, you can use a Canon EF to M42x1 adapter like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/395035671243 When there isn't room for the adapter to be flush to the rear of the plate, I use a smaller ring. I have a set of vintage Yashica M42x1 extension tubes that I like because they include a 5mm one (see pictures below).

(2) Another option is to use an M42x1 extension tube on the front side of the plate, and lock it on with an M42x1 ring of some kind on the rear. That way you can use the plate just like you would use a Cambo M42x1 lens plate.

With both of these options, the only danger is that the plate is so thick that you don't get enough thread sticking out through the hole. See below.

In these pictures, I have a lens with an M42x1 adapter poking through the Copal 1 hole on an Arca-Swiss lens plate. Two threads are sticking through the plate, which is more than enough to securely hold the lens. You can see my Yashica 5mm M42x1 extension ring laying on the plate in the first picture, and locked on in the second. This is very secure.

View attachment 215616

In this second example, I've attached a 10mm M42x1 extension tube to a Copal 1 board. At top left is the rear; I used that 5mm tube again as the locking ring. At top-right is the 10mm extension tube locked on to the front side. This is not a very secure arrangement because I only have just over 1 thread sticking through the hole (see bottom-left picture). It does lock on, but I wouldn't trust it. If I wanted to use this approach, I would shop for an M42x1 extension tube that has a longer threaded male side. These Yashica extension tubes only have 3.5mm of threaded male side. The adapter on the lens (above) has 4.75mm. A tube with 5mm of thread should be fine unless your plate is very thick.

View attachment 215617

Of course this is only one approach! If you know that you are going to use only LTM lenses, you could buy an adapter that is LTM on one side and M42x1 on the rear. This one from RAF Camera is ideal because it has 5mm of threaded male on the M42x1 side, which will allow for secure attachment. https://rafcamera.com/adapter-m39x1f-to-m42x1m With one of these, you can just thread your LTM lenses on, with no adapter needed on them.

One final point on this is that you have to watch the flange distances. Lenses with too short flange distances may not work even when attached directly to the Copal 1 board. It all depends on how close you can get the standards on your Actus. I think you'll be fine with all enlarger lenses that are 75mm or longer.

Thank you so much Rob. So actually, you are "saving" me from buying additional Copal 0 (wasn't in stock though), and just using my copal 1 lens board to mount leica or copal 0 lenses.
I will definitely buy the adapters.

Just want to make sure i understand
So you gave option to use Leica thread lenses, like fuji ex, so i can use 1 "downsize" adapter from one side (LTM to M42x1 adapter) https://www.ebay.com/itm/284472008266 and as a retaining ring this (Canon EF to M42x1) adapter https://www.ebay.com/itm/395035671243
The other option to mount leica thread lenses is to buy only one adapter like that from RAF without a need for retention ring?

What about retention ring for copal 1. I will buy Copal 0 to M42x1 adapter( https://www.ebay.com/itm/395040005807) but will I need retention ring to hold from another side of the lens board? If yes, do you have some link to that?

I still don't have a ~50mm lens, and Mamiya uld i considered(as John reccomended) currently not an option, as there was SADLY no Cambo RZ adapter in stock. So, in case I want to use fujinon ex 50mm, with the rings you suggested on copal 1 board, it will be not an option? only 75mm an up?

I see there is some good, not old-"recent" Pentax 645 75mm FA, but no "recent" ~50mm range, only old one SMC Pentax 67 55mm F/4 so is it as good as Mamiya RZ 50 uld or Fujinon ex 55(for macro and regular general shots like a 1.5 liter bottle of cola size)?

 

[Doppler9000]

I still don't have a ~50mm lens, and Mamiya uld i considered(as John reccomended) currently not an option, as there was SADLY no Cambo RZ adapter in stock. So, in case I want to use fujinon ex 50mm, with the rings you suggested on copal 1 board, it will be not an option? only 75mm an up?

I see there is some good, not old-"recent" Pentax 645 75mm FA, but no "recent" ~50mm range, only old one SMC Pentax 67 55mm F/4 so is it as good as Mamiya RZ 50 uld or Fujinon ex 55(for macro and regular general shots like a 1.5 liter bottle of cola size)?

None of the 50mm enlarger lenses that I am aware of, including the EX, will cover more than a 24x36mm sensor, let alone with capability for movements. The shortest that may work are the wide angle 60mm units.

Here is a great enlarger lens resource for coverage, and lots of other data:

Photo Cornucopia

The late-generation P 67 55mm lenses are very good and sell at relatively low prices.

 

[rdeloe]

Thank you so much Rob. So actually, you are "saving" me from buying additional Copal 0 (wasn't in stock though), and just using my copal 1 lens board to mount leica or copal 0 lenses.
I will definitely buy the adapters.

Just want to make sure i understand
So you gave option to use Leica thread lenses, like fuji ex, so i can use 1 "downsize" adapter from one side (LTM to M42x1 adapter) https://www.ebay.com/itm/284472008266 and as a retaining ring this (Canon EF to M42x1) adapter https://www.ebay.com/itm/395035671243
The other option to mount leica thread lenses is to buy only one adapter like that from RAF without a need for retention ring?

What about retention ring for copal 1. I will buy Copal 0 to M42x1 adapter( https://www.ebay.com/itm/395040005807) but will I need retention ring to hold from another side of the lens board? If yes, do you have some link to that?

I still don't have a ~50mm lens, and Mamiya uld i considered(as John reccomended) currently not an option, as there was SADLY no Cambo RZ adapter in stock. So, in case I want to use fujinon ex 50mm, with the rings you suggested on copal 1 board, it will be not an option? only 75mm an up?

I see there is some good, not old-"recent" Pentax 645 75mm FA, but no "recent" ~50mm range, only old one SMC Pentax 67 55mm F/4 so is it as good as Mamiya RZ 50 uld or Fujinon ex 55(for macro and regular general shots like a 1.5 liter bottle of cola size)?

@Doppler9000 kindly sent you to the site I was going to bring to your attention. The author of that site provides documentation when available, which you can use to answer a lot of questions yourself.

Yes, the idea behind my suggestions is to save you having to buy additional boards. You can use the Copal 1 board and adapt. If you are planning to use enlarger lenses with LTM thread (39mm x 1/26th inch), then it makes sense to buy the RAF adapter and attach it securely to the board. It's very important that you confirm with Cambo or someone who has the Copal 1 plate that it is no more than 3mm thick at the hole. The RAF adapter is 5mm male threaded M42x1. On a 3mm thick plate, that will allow 2mm to stick out, which should be enough for a secure lock with an M42x1 ring. If the plate is thicker at the hole, then this will not work.

You will not use a Copal 1 retention ring. That's for Copal 1 thread shutters. You can use many rings that have M42x1 female thread to lock the RAF adapter on to your board. Search eBay for something suitable. The M42x1 to Canon EF rings I already linked for you should work. As long as it is M42x1 female thread, it doesn't matter what the male thread is.

The Pentax 645 75mm lenses comes in two versions that have the same optical formula: A (manual) and FA (autofocus on Pentax, but can be manually focused). I like the A lenses because they have nicer focus rings.

For a subject the size of a litre bottle of cola, I think that a 50-55mm lens will not give you much working distance. I would be using a longer lens for that kind of work, something at least 75mm, and probably longer.

As @Doppler9000 mentions, the third generation Pentacx 67 55mm f/4 is a good lens if you need that focal length. But it's big and heavy and you need the adapter.
This is the lens: https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/SMC-Pentax-67-55mm-F4-Lens.html
This is the adapter: https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/Pentax-67-Adapter-for-645.html

 

[Allthink_]

@Doppler9000 kindly sent you to the site I was going to bring to your attention. The author of that site provides documentation when available, which you can use to answer a lot of questions yourself.

Yes, the idea behind my suggestions is to save you having to buy additional boards. You can use the Copal 1 board and adapt. If you are planning to use enlarger lenses with LTM thread (39mm x 1/26th inch), then it makes sense to buy the RAF adapter and attach it securely to the board. It's very important that you confirm with Cambo or someone who has the Copal 1 plate that it is no more than 3mm thick at the hole. The RAF adapter is 5mm male threaded M42x1. On a 3mm thick plate, that will allow 2mm to stick out, which should be enough for a secure lock with an M42x1 ring. If the plate is thicker at the hole, then this will not work.

You will not use a Copal 1 retention ring. That's for Copal 1 thread shutters. You can use many rings that have M42x1 female thread to lock the RAF adapter on to your board. Search eBay for something suitable. The M42x1 to Canon EF rings I already linked for you should work. As long as it is M42x1 female thread, it doesn't matter what the male thread is.

The Pentax 645 75mm lenses comes in two versions that have the same optical formula: A (manual) and FA (autofocus on Pentax, but can be manually focused). I like the A lenses because they have nicer focus rings.

For a subject the size of a litre bottle of cola, I think that a 50-55mm lens will not give you much working distance. I would be using a longer lens for that kind of work, something at least 75mm, and probably longer.

As @Doppler9000 mentions, the third generation Pentacx 67 55mm f/4 is a good lens if you need that focal length. But it's big and heavy and you need the adapter.
This is the lens: https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/SMC-Pentax-67-55mm-F4-Lens.html
This is the adapter: https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/Pentax-67-Adapter-for-645.html

Thanks Rob
What is the benefit of mentioned Raf adapter vs the chinese ones you suggested? (either way I need an adapted and retention ring.)
Ok, so these fujinon will not allow me movements with 24*36mm or larger sensor. I think I better get one that in future will be usable with movements with at least 33*44mm sensor.

 

[rdeloe]

Thanks Rob
What is the benefit of mentioned Raf adapter vs the chinese ones you suggested? (either way I need an adapted and retention ring.)
Ok, so these fujinon will not allow me movements with 24*36mm or larger sensor. I think I better get one that in future will be usable with movements with at least 33*44mm sensor.

The RAF adapter has a 5mm male threaded end. All of the Chinese adapters I've used have less (3.5mm to maybe 4.75mm). That's one crucial benefit if your Cambo plate is on the thick side.

A second benefit of the RAF adapter is that if you're only using LTM lenses, you don't have to worry about mounting an adapter onto your lenses; you can just screw them on.

 

[Allthink_]

Is this option of SK 150mm F/5.6 ENLARGER LENS (500$) a better option than Pentax 645 120mm macro (300$)?

 

[Allthink_]

I wonder how these 55mm lens compare in terms of IQ and distortions
SMC Pentax 67 55mm F/4 MF
Nikkor SW 65mm f/4

I see there is Rodenstock Apo Sironar Digital 55mm F5.6 for 1200$, I assume it's the best option and also the priciest one. Is it noticeably better than the other two?

 

[Allthink_]

Today, while searching for ACB lens boards, I suddenly saw some chinese makers. Their prices a bit lower than the original ones, 120$ for copal 0/1, 230$ for P645 and no one for RZ sadly. I wonder if they are as good as original, or it have to be super precise machining that it's better not to take a chance with them.

 

[JeffK]

Today, while searching for ACB lens boards, I suddenly saw some chinese makers. Their prices a bit lower than the original ones, 120$ for copal 0/1, 230$ for P645 and no one for RZ sadly. I wonder if they are as good as original, or it have to be super precise machining that it's better not to take a chance with them.

avoid the Chinese knock offs, especially Cambo knockoffs. They’re badly done.

 

[JeffK]

As for lenses, stick with nikkors. Best bang for the buck. Rodies are marginally better. If you’re making money as an architectural photographer, get the rodies. If it’s for fun and hobby, Nikkors will suit you fine.

 

[Allthink_]

As for lenses, stick with nikkors. Best bang for the buck. Rodies are marginally better. If you’re making money as an architectural photographer, get the rodies. If it’s for fun and hobby, Nikkors will suit you fine.

Thanks Jeff. Actually I do have all pc-e line for my Nikons+all the regular FF lenses(can't use them with view camera with movements), but as I bought "new system" I was interested to know if anyone compared those LF/MF lenses I asked above with movements on Actus and how they behave. Some of them from 1994, some 1994, some 1986 and some from 2010.

 

[Allthink_]

avoid the Chinese knock offs, especially Cambo knockoffs. They’re badly done.

Hi Jeff
I see that you use Nikon Nikkor SW 65mm f4 S. How it behaves with shifts, LCC/CA needed?
Do you know how it compares to the other 2 lenses in that range I mentioned above?

 

[asnapper]

Thank you, it's helpful
About pentax, you mean 35mm HD version which is better or A?
I didn't find on ebay SK 47mm Apo Digitar, but to be "future proof" probably
I have to skip this one and get Pentax 35, as I can use it later on other systems.

I see that Pentax fa 75 have manual apetrue, but 55mm is only A version that have
aperture control, the FA doesn't but strangely 75mm fa does. I will have 90mm digitar, so probably 55 is more appropriate to
purchase than 75 which is close to 90, but on other hand it's the latest version
of the lens.

Interesting that in 50-75mm are so many lenses, which of them is the best
in class?
SK 60mm Apo Digitar -looks interesting but currenly no used on ebay
Pentax 645 A 55mm
Sinar digital 55mm
For some reason can't find people that use Mamiya 67 lenses for their opinion.

I use the last version of the P645 35mm, which is more expensive than the A version, but if you are on a tight budget the A version will be more than adequate.

The 55mm Rodenstock will work with the Sony mounted on the Actus G, but it's no good with the GFX mounted, the rear element is to wide & hits the Actus camera mount, but surprisingly the Schneider 47mm Digitar works, when either camera is mounted. The rear element protrudes within the Actus camera mount with the GFX by a few mils, with infinity focus. You have about 8mil of movements, so no good for serious stitching if thats your thing, but good enough for altering compositions & 1 or 2 deg of tilt or swing, you just have to be careful.

You should get the 55mm P67 latest version if you can't find the SK47 Digitar, its better than the P645 55mm A or look for the P645 55mm f2.8 FA which was designed for the P645 digital SLRS, but its image circle is smaller than the P67 55mm.

For Macro work get the P645 120mm Macro A or the P67 100mm Macro, if you can't find the an SK 80mm Apo Digitar Macro

My setup for the Actus G / GFX is either the SK28mm f2.8 or P645 35mm, SK 47mm Apo Digitar, Rodi 70mm HR, SK 90mm Apo Digitar, SK 120mm M, & a Rodi 135mm Apo Sironar. I didn't start with all these lenses, I've added them to my large collection of lenses, as & when I found them