New Apple 13" Retina... No FW800 again... Sorry, i won't buy it !

[archivue]

They done it again... but the thunderbolt to FW800 doesn't provide enought energy for MFDB !
A firewire 800 would have cost something like 2$...
I'm using a Macpro at home, and need a laptop in the field... so the 13" makes sense... but without FW800, NO !
FW was an Apple stuff... they really don't care about their pro customers...
I've start to use apple computers back in 96... now, i'd like to find an other brand of computers, not a mass market trendy company...

Grgrgrgr !

 

[Douglas Fairbank]

It is very frustrating that the company that launched firewire is dropping it but credit is due for their well designed and reasonably priced Thunderbolt to Fire wire adapter. Does anybody know if that same adapter works with a PC laptop with Thunderbolt?
In fairness to laptop designers they are trying to get the most powerful machine in the smallest package and the battery has to be shrunk to the smallest size necessary to provide the power. They can't be blamed for not wanting to provide an extra 10 Watts for a third party peripheral and in the case of PC laptops most did not provide power at all.

 

[archivue]

they launch FW800... companies like leaf, phase one had to deal with it... just 4 years later, they stopped it, and their adaptor isn't a real one... not the same power !
I feel in my rights to blame them for it !
MFDB such as APTUS II still for sell and they rely on FW800...
I hope that a thunderbolt/FW800 adapter powered with batteries will be available in the future !
Or maybe Leaf can make an adaptor and a firmware to allowed the Firewire connection and the use of the battery... as it is in phase one backs...

 

[Douglas Fairbank]

they launch FW800... companies like leaf, phase one had to deal with it... just 4 years later, they stopped it, and their adaptor isn't a real one... not the same power !
I feel in my rights to blame them for it !
MFDB such as APTUS II still for sell and they rely on FW800...
I hope that a thunderbolt/FW800 adapter powered with batteries will be available in the future !
Or maybe Leaf can make an adaptor and a firmware to allowed the Firewire connection and the use of the battery... as it is in phase one backs...

Hasselblad backs tethered will take power from a battery if there is no power from the firewire. Just so I understand, are you saying that the Leaf backs MUST have power over firewire and cannot be powered from a battery and be tethered?

 

[dizzyg44]

Hasselblad backs tethered will take power from a battery if there is no power from the firewire. Just so I understand, are you saying that the Leaf backs MUST have power over firewire and cannot be powered from a battery and be tethered?

Yes, the Leaf backs must receive their power over the firewire connect when tethered. There's no way to assist power with battery as the battery covers the firewire port...

As an aside, the 13" MBP's never had firewire. That was always 15" and up. Though they dropped the Macbook line and moved the 13" under the MacBook Pro line, it's still really just a Macbook (sans pro). They did this just to unify their laptop line. I don't see how that's such a heated surprise.

Now, dropping it from the 15/17" models, yeah that does suck....

 

[Pemihan]

Yes, the Leaf backs must receive their power over the firewire connect when tethered. There's no way to assist power with battery as the battery covers the firewire port...

As an aside, the 13" MBP's never had firewire. That was always 15" and up. Though they dropped the Macbook line and moved the 13" under the MacBook Pro line, it's still really just a Macbook (sans pro). They did this just to unify their laptop line. I don't see how that's such a heated surprise.

Now, dropping it from the 15/17" models, yeah that does suck....

I have had three different 13" MBP's all of which have had firewire, including the late 2011 model I have right now.

Peter

 

[dizzyg44]

I have had three different 13" MBP's all of which have had firewire, including the late 2011 model I have right now.

Peter

You are correct! I had FW400 on the brain for some reason, my coffee needs to kick in :banghead:

 

[Graham Mitchell]

Yes, the Leaf backs must receive their power over the firewire connect when tethered. There's no way to assist power with battery as the battery covers the firewire port...

Fortunately this is not the case for Hy6/AFi users afaik, as the battery can be installed in just the camera, not the back itself, and power both the camera and back.

 

[robmac]

I can fully understand people's frustration, but while FW800 was/is great, like any comm standard/interface, it's been overtaken by new ones. In this case USB 3 and TB.
Given the miniscule volume of MDFB units sales vs. those for almost any other amateur & pro video/ stills camera and (the required) external storage units, Apple (like any manufacturer) follows the money.

In all honesty, given the fact they keep yanking up MFDB pixel counts, it's the Hassy's, Leaf's and Phase One's of the world who need to get on the stick, swallow the costs, and move fwd in terms of high-speed tethering ability.

They need to give their customers higher-speed comms more than Apple needs to give those same customers continued (built-in) FW800 -- in the harsh light of reality. That said, it's not like their DSLR cousins are fast movers with USB 3 just making an appearance in SLR comm ports.

 

[archivue]

so the solution seems to use a firewire 800 repeater with a quantum turbo battery !
Anyone tried it ?

 

[rmueller]

I can fully understand people's frustration, but while FW800 was/is great, like any comm standard/interface, it's been overtaken by new ones. In this case USB 3 and TB.
Given the miniscule volume of MDFB units sales vs. those for almost any other amateur & pro video/ stills camera and (the required) external storage units, Apple (like any manufacturer) follows the money.

In all honesty, given the fact they keep yanking up MFDB pixel counts, it's the Hassy's, Leaf's and Phase One's of the world who need to get on the stick, swallow the costs, and move fwd in terms of high-speed tethering ability.

They need to give their customers higher-speed comms more than Apple needs to give those same customers continued (built-in) FW800 -- in the harsh light of reality. That said, it's not like their DSLR cousins are fast movers with USB 3 just making an appearance in SLR comm ports.

I fully agree here, technology moves on and the MFDB vendors must follow.

I was quite disappointed to see the H5D from Hasselblad still being equipped with FW800. By the time HB is able to ship the camera which i've heard is May 2013, we don't see computers in the market that support FW800, quite stupid decision from HB IMO. Seems its not HB alone, the new Leica S is still on USB 2.0, well that is an even more pain in the neck ;-)

Anyway, i'm happy to see other tech vendors innovate and offer faster and
smaller technology. My camera is just ONE device from many that i'd like to
connect to my computer.

Just my 2 cents,
Ralf

 

[docmoore]

so the solution seems to use a firewire 800 repeater with a quantum turbo battery !
Anyone tried it ?

See the following thread...

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/mediu...-field-cameras-battery-source.html#post277391


It worked well and with that battery one had a full day shooting without recharge.

Bob

 

[Udo]

I have had three different 13" MBP's all of which have had firewire, including the late 2011 model I have right now.

Peter

ditto...

I am on my second 13" MacBook Pro since 2008 as well, and both were bought for their FiWi ports in order to tether my digital backs. The second with an i7 core was purchased recently and decided against Retina display in favor for the FiWi port.

Udo

 

[pyrojim]

Give it a few years when digital backs either have USB3 or thunderbolt. then you wont be complaining quite as much about it.

Its not THAT big of a deal. and if you in fact NEED a computer in the 13inch size catagory, AND you need it to be an apple AND you need firewire800, craigslist has...

MANY.

additionally you can still buy the older 13inch unibody
MacBook Pro - Buy MacBook Pro with 13-inch, 15-inch or Retina display - Apple Store (U.S.)
I do not know, however if it still has firewire on that one.



And please recall, that apple did away with the A drive long before anyone else did...... I'm only 24 and I remember that. I was stunned for about 15 seconds. Something new did come of it.

 

[archivue]

"Give it a few years when digital backs either have USB3 or thunderbolt. then you wont be complaining quite as much about it. "
We are talking of digital back hat still on sale and that cost 12 000 to 35 000 euros...
Apple did promote FW... now they claim that thunderbolt is retro compatible... they should have built a thunderbolt with enough power to handle this retro compatibility... this is what i call bad design !

Anyway, leaving a FW 800 port on a retina will have cost something like 1$... but they want people to change their stuff... that's a phone company, no more a pro computer, that's sad... but that's where the market is !

 

[archivue]

"And please recall, that apple did away with the A drive long before anyone else did...... I'm only 24 and I remember that. I was stunned for about 15 seconds. Something new did come of it."
you must remember, that others company did sell external A drive to a lot of us because some softwares did request it for installation !

I just think that it's a shame to abandon FW on the retina computers... too early !

 

[Geoff]

I'm told that Apple makes a TB->FW converter. If used with a repeater, does it work for tethering?

 

[Nick Devlin]

While the lack of full backwards compatibility b/w TB and FW800 is certainly grating for existing users, the real abomination is that makers are still reeleasing 'new' backs in 2012 with FW800 on them. I'n talking to you, Hasselblad. If the H5D is a future-proofed system, where is the TB plug??? Or even just USB 3.

FW is dead and buried for all but legacy backs. The switch cost me a bundle to move my storage system from a FW800 Drobo to a TB-based system, but that's the nature of the beast with computer technology. You pay. And then you pay again. And then you pay some more...

- N.

 

[jeanlucco]

so the solution seems to use a firewire 800 repeater with a quantum turbo battery !
Anyone tried it ?

Got a present for my wife: new 13" retina MacBook pro with for sure the adaptater Fw800 Not try yet on Mac, run PC. Used many time my
HP Lapetop with repeater fw400 + turbo2 linked to my Leaf AFI7II. Can work for hours. I need to buy now a repeater 800 and try it. I let you know.

 

[Godfrey]

The underlying problem is that the Thunderbolt specification caps power supplied to 10W per port, so you can't deliver 40W through an adapter the same way a native implemented FW800 port can. The Apple TB->FW800 adapter is rated to supply 7W, which is pretty efficient.

For tethered use driving a digital back, pick any of the current non-Retina display MacBook Pro systems, 13 or 15 inch.

I'm as yet unconvinced of the need for Retina display resolution. My next system will likely be a MacBook Air 13" with 8G RAM and 500G storage, connecting to FW and USB storage and scanning devices through a TB Display 27" when needed. I don't do tethering, at this point anyway, but would keep my current 2010 generation MBP13 for that purpose if I did.