P1 slashes XT prices - new beginning? IQ5 around the corner?

[ThdeDude]

... they are super annoying to others, people and animals.

The general public may feel the same about photographers in general! ( I am being facetious here)

On January 4, 2025, the EXPLORE Act was signed into law (Public Law 118-234). In order to avoid permit and fee requirements ... "uses hand-carried equipment only". Tripods!? Nothing about drones. More here: https://www.nps.gov/aboutus/news/film-and-photo-permits.htm


P.S. Checked the actual statute:

Tripods are mentioned only once.

(E) The person conducting the filming or still photography activity does not use a set or staging equipment, subject to the limitation that handheld equipment (such as a tripod, monopod, and handheld lighting equipment) shall not be considered staging equipment for the purposes of this subparagraph.

Does not preclude other provisions as to "unmanned aerial equipment", i.e. drones.

(H) The person conducting the filming or still photography activity complies with other applicable Federal, State (as such term is defined in section 3 3 of the EXPLORE Act), and local laws (including regulations), including laws relating to the use of unmanned aerial equipment.

 

[Rod S.]

The general public may feel the same about photographers in general! ( I am being facetious here)

On January 4, 2025, the EXPLORE Act was signed into law (Public Law 118-234). In order to avoid permit and fee requirements ... "uses hand-carried equipment only". Tripods!? Nothing about drones. More here: https://www.nps.gov/aboutus/news/film-and-photo-permits.htm

I read that linked article as meaning that the gear can be carried by hand to the filming or photography site and doesn't require a vehicle to access the site.

 

[ThdeDude]

I read that linked article as meaning that the gear can be carried by hand to the filming or photography site and doesn't require a vehicle to access the site.

Me too, but who knows what might be next.

 

[AreBee]

If P1 finally introduced a next-gen digital back - the famed "IQ5" - would you buy it?​

For the right price, and assuming DR not worse than an IQ4, sure. Unlike for others, a 3:2 aspect sensor is more desirable to me than a 5:4 because it maximises resolution for a 617 crop. However, I'm confident the price will be far beyond what I would be willing to pay.

I consider P1 new back pricing not credible in this day and age. Unfortunately, I think P1 may be caught between a rock and a hard place. If it prices an IQ5 at or more than it historically has then fewer will purchase than, well, historically. Conversely, if it (significantly) reduces the price then how does it respond when a prospective aerial mapping client enquires "How do you justify the significant price difference between an IQ5 and the same sensor in an iXM-RS250?".

 

[nickw]

Here is my 2cents, as someone looking to move to Phase One in 2026.

The question is which Phase One back to get? For 80% tech cam use, and 20% hand held.

The 260/360 was my first thought. It’s tech camera friendly and affordable. But limited live view for focusing and composition. Long exposure is also not ideal.

IQ#50 could work. But I’d rather a full size sensor, and build my lens collection around that. I’d also prefer 16bit files for some work.

The IQ3100 addresses the above problems. But I prefer the Trichromatic colors. I also read the Tri is better for tech camera use. So I am currently leaning this way.

The IQ4 with the BSI sensor and frame averaging would be ideal. It’s the culmination of many things coming together. That said there are obvious upgrades it could get (as you mention). Price wise, even used they are expensive. I had hoped the IQ5 would come out, and drive down IQ4 prices. But we’re all still waiting….

As for the IQ5, I do wonder what prices will be. With Hasselblad and Fuji taking a big bite into the market, I wonder if Phase can continue to sustain the large premium? Or would they make more money by selling greater volume at a lower price? I’m guessing they’ve done the sales estimates and the math. So I’m curious to see what price the IQ5 launches with.

So my end game is probably a used/CPO IQ4, post the IQ5 release.

But when will that happen? With my luck, once I buy an IQ3, the IQ5 will come out shortly after. I personally dislike the random release cycles. It makes me somewhat apprehensive to buy now, since it does seem like an IQ5 is overdue. I wonder how many other people are in a similar spot.

You do list many concerns Phase is up against. Especially selling high priced cameras. Price, economy, AI and shrinking market, etc… But if Axcel wants to sell PhaseOne the company, (like they are with C1), I would think they would want recent win/successful product to ride for awhile.

Overall it seems like Phase needs to address Hasselblad and Fuji nipping at their heels. The Leica S4 is also due soon. Since it’s been so long, Phase has built up lots of anticipation for the IQ5.

As a side: it seems like a mistake to me to split P1 and C1, but that’s easily the subject of another thread.

 

[baudolino]

Not interested in IQ5. My IQ4150 still more than enough on the XT. Sold my XF bodies and lenses recently. If I ever return to shooting models in studio and on location, with strobes etc., I will buy Hasselblad X2DII or use my SL3 - easier on the wrists in full-day shooting, way better AF, IQ more than enough for the purpose. Recently prefer to shoot LF film anyway, for my shoots of old factories - more flexibility in terms of movements, look of film more consistent with the theme. Most recent acquisition - Arca Swiss Misura 8x10.

Last but not least: given the entry cost of MF digital equipment, future resale value is important to me. This is very much driven by liquidity, or current popularity of a given system, its support by the manufacturer, introduction of new products etc. Second hand prices of medium format digital equipment from P1, Leica, Hasselblad H have gone through the floor. Difficult to sell anything at all now, unless practically given away - including P1 blue ring lenses, Leica S lenses. I am not going to put a lot of fresh money in something new digital that is not in the "popular" category (read Fuji / Hassy X) and does not hold value (like Leica M lenses do). In this context, LF film equipment nowadays makes even more sense (despite the high cost of film).

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Interim assessment:

1) In terms of votes, most voters say they left for crop mirrorless MF for good
2) BUT the other three are similar and can actually be seen as pro P1 back - meaning if the legendary IQ5 DOES arrive at one point and is better than the IQ4 ... it will garner interest ...

So one could say it is 19 pro new P1 back vs. 13 against, assuming the new back is decently priced and is a step up technology-wise from the IQ4...

Only missing piece here is a launch announcement finally by P1 of the IQ5!

 

[Rod S.]

Interim assessment:

1) In terms of votes, most voters say they left for crop mirrorless MF for good
2) BUT the other three are similar and can actually be seen as pro P1 back - meaning if the legendary IQ5 DOES arrive at one point and is better than the IQ4 ... it will garner interest ...

So one could say it is 19 pro new P1 back vs. 13 against, assuming the new back is decently priced and is a step up technology-wise from the IQ4...

Only missing piece here is a launch announcement finally by P1 of the IQ5!

.
Paul, pardon? According to the poll results, 40.6% (n=13) of all voters (n=32) said they have left Phase One for 'mirrorless crop MF'. 40.6% is not 'most'.

The same number of voters - 40.6% - are interested in a new back from Phase One at either the same price level or (mostly) a lower price level.

If the 'wait and see' voters are included, 59.4% of voters are potentially interested in a new back from Phase One.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

.
Paul, pardon? According to the poll results, 40.6% (n=13) of all voters (n=32) said they have left Phase One for 'mirrorless crop MF'. 40.6% is not 'most'.

The same number of voters - 40.6% - are interested in a new back from Phase One at either the same price level or (mostly) a lower price level.

If the 'wait and see' voters are included, 59.4% of voters are potentially interested in a new back from Phase One.

Pls read my response correctly:

As choice in the multiple choice the choice A has the most counts - this is what I meant to express - but also that actually 2,3,4 are effectively interested in a new digital back, as long as it fulfils expectations re price and functionality. Seems more wait and see for most, with a tacit group being just fine with the IQ4.

Given that P1 has had a history of being strict re their high price point strategy with no discounts it is not certain we'll see anything less than a 45k-50k back. Also P1 has had a history of pricing trade-ins AT market, meaning they could sell a 45k back and credit you only say 20k for an IQ4 or less.

On top, it is unclear if the IQ5 will be a dramatic step up from the IQ4.

So although the interest is there, it remains a virtual discussion as long as we do not know if the IQ5 comes out, is technologically a step up and costs less which is what a lot of people would want given you can buy an X2D MK I on ebay for less than 4k USD or more thna 90% less than the MRSP of the IQ4.

The X2D MK I is probably the best deal in the MF market right now ... its kind of insane that a 100 MPX camera costs not that much anymore incl. IS, high res EVF etc.

 

[TechTalk]

If you're interested in comparing results from previous years, you can see the responses to the 2024 Phase One IQ5 – will you get it? poll at this link. These IQ5 polls may become an annual tradition.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Well what can one say. Phase One is the big elephant in the room. No new back product since 2019 ... no comms, no roadmap, no clarity on long-term support.

Maybe the IQ5 will never come and the recent IQ3 CPO drop is to be seen as a sign of them offloading their trade-in inventory which has been sitting in warehouses for ages with no buyers while CPO and second hand prices drifted apart. Not sure how to interpret the CPO selloff.

One can find IQ3s at 8k or less already.

 

[algrove]

Some are still voting and the total of voters is just 35.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Well - this is a surprise: P1 apparently slashing prices on XT stuff and IQ3 CPO.

Question, coming back to the beginning of the thread:

Is this a new beginning for P1?

Quo vadis P1 - communicate with the customer base!​

The positive read:

+ New CEO realized price strategy needs adjustment given market conditions and competition from Hassy and Fuji
+ Internally it was decided to stock up on Rodie glass, soon release the IQ5 based on the aerial tech and double-down on bespoke
+ IQ5 launch in the coming months - will be a technological tour de force
+ Prices will be slightly adjusted downwards with fantastic trade-in deals for loyal Phase customers
+ The best photographic kit in the world will continued to be made by P1

The negative read:

+ Sell-down of remaining XTs which haven't sold well recently
+ Sell-down of XT glass which has also been stockpiling as P1 needs to buy Rodie glass in larger quantities
+ No IQ5, silently selling IQ4s and especially CPO stock
+ No comms to not endanger ongoing sell-down
+ A 30 year leadership in high end photographic gear comes to an end, superceded by the nextGen of crop MF systems from Hasselblad, Fuji and Leica

So what is the situation?

Which tale will unfold?

I want to believe in the positive scenario ...

CANT WAIT FOR IQ5!​

 

[jduncan]

UPDATE: P1 just announced the first price cuts I've ever witnessed since joining this forum, slashing XT body prices and lens prices. The key question now is - WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? Is P1 exiting bespoke slowly or are they doubling down and there's a lot to come? I've amended the thread title accordingly to discuss besides the interest in a new back also the fact that P1 seemingly cut the XT body price by 25% percent.

***

Hi guys

It's 2026. Still no IQ5. It has been a while. This stuff is expensive, but P1 backs are amongst the most coveted and best photographic tools money can buy. Still, the traditional upgrade cycle has been broken, the IQ4 was and is SO GOOD that it is is difficult to top. As time passes, some features are sorely missing: 1) EVF connectivity 2) Better I/O and 3) Decent battery life.

So, the question remains:

QUO VADIS - P1?
​

It is also unclear if the 250 MPX chip will ever be put into a digital back chassis - smaller pixels: is it needed, is DR the same, will people buy 3:2?

Maybe the tariffs, maybe the dire economic outlook, maybe AI. Parts of Rodenstock have been sold, Digaron HR production will depend on continued demand from consumers for new products at post-Covid, post-Tariffs cost price shock levels.

AI is eroding a lot of jobs, economic uncertainties weigh on top of the creative industries, the ivnestors in P1 are surely weighing the business case carefully about whether to launch a new digital back, etc.

So maybe the other way around: If P1 announced an IQ5 250 MPX tomorrow, list 45k USD, trade-in 25k-30k - would you be interested?

Curious to hear people's thoughts around this.

Again. It is 2026. No communication at all from P1 is really not confidence inspiring.

I also heard they slashed CPO prices of IQ3s now ... what does it all mean?

I would upgrade in case it is a significant step up and more palatable financially then in the past at least if I TRADE IN. I WANT VALUE PROTECTION FOR MY IQ4 stuff to enter the convo on a next-gen back purchase.

Times are rough, business is slow, so discretionary spend for high end cameras would need to be *right-sized" to the times we live in.

Hi,
According to the specs the dynamic range of the new sensor is not the same, it's lower.
Also, Phase One lovers are going to justify and buy everything they release if they have the means.

My dream will be if Hasselblad adopted the sensor for the 907 series, that will add volume, enough for Sony to continue to invest in biggish sensors.

Best regards,

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Hi,
According to the specs the dynamic range of the new sensor is not the same, it's lower.
Also, Phase One lovers are going to justify and buy everything they release if they have the means.

My dream will be if Hasselblad adopted the sensor for the 907 series, that will add volume, enough for Sony to continue to invest in biggish sensors.

Best regards,

I think there are different ways how one can implement a sensor

 

[Precision]

Hi,
According to the specs the dynamic range of the new sensor is not the same, it's lower.
Also, Phase One lovers are going to justify and buy everything they release if they have the means.

My dream will be if Hasselblad adopted the sensor for the 907 series, that will add volume, enough for Sony to continue to invest in biggish sensors.

Best regards,

Larger sensor makes absolutely zero sense for the X series hasselblads…no lenses for that circle of coverage.

A 33x44 version with higher Megapixels but lower dynamic range? I think that would be a 180 MP sensor.

Well, I guess you could try…take the refinements of the X2Dii and put them and the new sensor into the X3D. On a 907/ CFV…well, add IBIS to the back please…but if the CFV100 is a viable alternative to the big sensor IQ4-150 on a tech camera…

Be interesting to see P1 do SOMETHING, anyways,

I’m skeptical that a pricw adjustment from P1 is anything more than admission that sales are very slow at current price point for a camera with an extremely limited appeal. I am also skeptical that a price adjustment is suddenly going to make the XT line see an increase in demand. Turning stale inventory into something more liquid is exactly what this is. Little different from Axcel trying to auction off C1. It’s just Private Equity doing what it does.

In private equity, optimists lose their shirt.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

25% percent off the body to 6k USD incl. tariffs at 15% means 5100 USD means effectively 4300 EUR for a new XT body excl. tariffs.

The lowest ever.

Either it's the end or a new start at a lower price point for the IQ5 stuff. Hope they keep value protection in mind.

 

[Steve Hendrix]

I can only say this - because I have no hard facts of anything. But based on some soft data, as I perceive it, and my interpretation/sense of some behind the scenes things ... when it comes to bespoke photography, in other words, non-industrial solutions, it's not the end for Phase One. And these price adjustments shouldn't be interpreted that way. You may have to be (continue to be) patient, but activity is happening (slowly) and things will emerge. Some of them might be interesting, but it's not going to happen next week.


Steve Hendrix
[email protected]

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Well if they're smart they develop their own lens line for bespoke to be completely independent of Rodenstock and lower the price point.

The aerial lenses are already all custom and Nittoh produced - so to me it looks like we could see:

1) AF Nittoh P1 proprietary optics
2) AF capable IQ5 system camera with EVF

In a dream world P1 would go mirrorless with a true XF successor, new lenses and an IQ250.

XT still available as the "shift" camera.

Let's not forget: as part of the aerial 250 MPX camera they announced a full lineup of aerial lenses, I hear though IC is exactly enough to cover the chip.

So naturally, I'd take those lens designs, slap an AF system + X shutter in it and take the XC body and add an EVF on top.

Slash back price to 29k or 16k with IQ4 trade-in + new system camera for 6k and new homegrown lenses for 7k.

Keep XT glass at 11-13k for the shift people.

I'd buy the IQ5 250 with an EVF capable next-gen Phase camera in a heart beat, they should keep the back design similar and keep it XF, XT etc. compatible.

Would be awesome, all pieces are there.

Bottleneck probably the lens development. The whole reason why lens prices got out of hand is because Rodenstock, PE owned, focused on defense with little interest in the tiny photo business, has sequentially raised prices on their Digaron line since 2020 in order to get the most out of their de facto MFD shift lens monopoly.

The best Phase can do is to skip Rodenstock down the line and release a new line of P1 only AF capable lenses which can be stuck onto a mirrorless body.

The waiting time maybe painful, but it is a catching up P1 has to do if they want to play ANY role down the line in the crop MF wars ahead when Sony's 180 MPX crop chip comes out. The benefit of a P1 mirrorless body would be digital back detachment and a bit more resolution and for sure extremely good optics without compromises.

 

[SrMphoto]

I can only say this - because I have no hard facts of anything. But based on some soft data, as I perceive it, and my interpretation/sense of some behind the scenes things ... when it comes to bespoke photography, in other words, non-industrial solutions, it's not the end for Phase One. And these price adjustments shouldn't be interpreted that way. You may have to be (continue to be) patient, but activity is happening (slowly) and things will emerge. Some of them might be interesting, but it's not going to happen next week.


Steve Hendrix
[email protected]

Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more!