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Panasonic S1

ptomsu

Workshop Member
He seems to echo what a lot of other reviews have said IMO (which isn’t a criticism but a conformation) that the LUMIX S bodies are outstanding cameras. I’d be interested to see if they can get DFD fast enough to develop/release a direct A9 competitor in time for the 2020 Olympics. That will be the day nearly all reservations flee from the direction Panasonic is going by sticking to CDAF/DFD instead of PDAF.
For me - even if it is not as fast and accurate as an A9 - this camera is still much more of interest.

For 95% of my shooting I will not require that speed, even when doing wildlife, butI need many of the other features like bigger body and better grip, better (much better) EVF, the potential that comes with the L-mount in terms of lens choices and finally but very important for me a great mom for all my M-glass.
 

iiiNelson

Active member
For me - even if it is not as fast and accurate as an A9 - this camera is still much more of interest.

For 95% of my shooting I will not require that speed, even when doing wildlife, butI need many of the other features like bigger body and better grip, better (much better) EVF, the potential that comes with the L-mount in terms of lens choices and finally but very important for me a great mom for all my M-glass.
Yeah if my goal was to mount M-lenses this would be arguably the second camera on the list (behind an actual M) but alas I sold all but one lens years ago. All that said, I do believe that many of the modern lenses meet or exceed the optics in the very best M lenses - outside of size concerns. In any case though I believe you should buy an inexpensive M to L adapter and head to your local store with your M collection to test out one day and see how the camera works with the specific lenses that you own. If they don’t work all that well and you don’t plan to buy a M then maybe sell the lenses to fund your Nikon Z or LUMIX S purchase and keep your Olympus for telephoto photography since size is a concern... or sell your Olympus once the XH2 is out and pick up another Fuji 100-400 lens to fill in for the telephoto work... it’ll seem to solve your potential dilemma.
 

jdphoto

Active member
He should really have someone proof read his reviews! Best mirrorless of the year? Kind of like putting the cart in front of the horse here. Highly subjective ramblings that don’t compare the sensor stack, flange distance or diameter of mount, all which favor the Nikon Z for fast 0.95 lenses and adapting M lenses. An outdated top LCD and the worst design for the on/off switch of any mirrorless camera that requires two hands to use. It’s funny how so many photographers wanted the smaller mirrorless cameras because of the weight and ergonomics, but praise this ungainly design. DXO has compared the S1 camera and gives it the same score as the Z6 even without a OLPF. Maybe when there’s more native lenses or when prices inevitably come down it might be a better value proposition ( if that’s even possible with digital cameras).
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
He should really have someone proof read his reviews! Best mirrorless of the year? Kind of like putting the cart in front of the horse here. Highly subjective ramblings that don’t compare the sensor stack, flange distance or diameter of mount, all which favor the Nikon Z for fast 0.95 lenses and adapting M lenses. An outdated top LCD and the worst design for the on/off switch of any mirrorless camera that requires two hands to use. It’s funny how so many photographers wanted the smaller mirrorless cameras because of the weight and ergonomics, but praise this ungainly design. DXO has compared the S1 camera and gives it the same score as the Z6 even without a OLPF. Maybe when there’s more native lenses or when prices inevitably come down it might be a better value proposition ( if that’s even possible with digital cameras).
Tastes obviously differ. I like his style of reviews and most times highly prefer this to the boring reviews where reviewers just talk about what boxes are ticked and what not. I am not always his opinion, but generally I like how he tests and describes products - mainly from a usability and enjoyment perspective.

Having said that I am sure the Z6/Z7 are some other great contenders when it comes to using adapted M lenses. IMO it all comes down to what individuals like or prefer most. Cannot say of today that would be Nikon or Panasonic mirrorless. This is also the main reason I am not buying for now and give it some more months before I decide which direction (manufacturer) I will go with mirrorless FF. This is the luxury I have currently as I am not invested in any FF system and I am actually really enjoying this status.
 

iiiNelson

Active member
He should really have someone proof read his reviews! Best mirrorless of the year? Kind of like putting the cart in front of the horse here. Highly subjective ramblings that don’t compare the sensor stack, flange distance or diameter of mount, all which favor the Nikon Z for fast 0.95 lenses and adapting M lenses. An outdated top LCD and the worst design for the on/off switch of any mirrorless camera that requires two hands to use. It’s funny how so many photographers wanted the smaller mirrorless cameras because of the weight and ergonomics, but praise this ungainly design. DXO has compared the S1 camera and gives it the same score as the Z6 even without a OLPF. Maybe when there’s more native lenses or when prices inevitably come down it might be a better value proposition ( if that’s even possible with digital cameras).
In fairness, he does caveat his “camera of the year” remark with an “as of April 2019.” That’s an important distinction to his opinion if you’re going to characterize his words. Maybe the top LCD is “outdated” but it’s functional in providing the user information on the top plate. Many like the design of the LUMIX S specifically for when using pro level lenses... well that’s my own interest in it. IMO the Nikon Z doesn’t feel all that different from the Sony and lacks the ability to mount a vertical grip. Either feels better than the Canon to me personally. Panasonic offers dual card slots which is necessary in a pro body so I’ve been told by Nikon and Canon users for years now when Sony bodies lacked them... now it’s a debated issue for many. Pretty much all systems have native lens gaps but the strength of the L-Mount is that they’ll have a large native lens range fairly quickly due to their partnerships.

Regarding whether the Lumix S is better than the Nikon Z... he’s used and tested both for his needs. I have no skin in either game right now personally but there’s not a Mirrorless Mount that can’t handle 0.95 lenses. It was never a problem for Leica M cameras and it has a smaller mount that Sony E mount but the same size as the Nikon F mount... to the point that sensor mount size became an issue for photographers in late Summer 2018... never heard anyone complain about it prior to that.

In any case though choice is good. Not everyone wants a Sony, Nikon, Canon, or whatever. All are capable and we all have our subjective preferences.
 
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jdphoto

Active member
In fairness, he does caveat his “camera of the year” remark with an “as of April 2019.” That’s an important distinction to his opinion if you’re going to characterize his words. Maybe the top LCD is “outdated” but it’s functional in providing the user information on the top plate. Many like the design of the LUMIX S specifically for when using pro level lenses... well that’s my own interest in it. IMO the Nikon Z doesn’t feel all that different from the Sony and lacks the ability to mount a vertical grip. Either feels better than the Canon to me personally. Panasonic offers dual card slots which is necessary in a pro body so I’ve been told by Nikon and Canon users for years now when Sony bodies lacked them... now it’s a debated issue for many. Pretty much all systems have native lens gaps but the strength of the L-Mount is that they’ll have a large native lens range fairly quickly due to their partnerships.

Regarding whether the Lumix S is better than the Nikon Z... he’s used and tested both for his needs. I have no skin in either game right now personally but there’s not a Mirrorless Mount that can’t handle 0.95 lenses. It was never a problem for Leica M cameras and it has a smaller mount that Sony E mount but the same size as the Nikon F mount... to the point that sensor mount size became an issue for photographers in late Summer 2018... never heard anyone complain about it prior to that.

In any case though choice is good. Not everyone wants a Sony, Nikon, Canon, or whatever. All are capable and we all have our subjective preferences.
Good points. I agree that choice in gear is good and it's also plentiful now too. Other considerations for me are where a product is made regardless of the specs.
 

iiiNelson

Active member
Good points. I agree that choice in gear is good and it's also plentiful now too. Other considerations for me are where a product is made regardless of the specs.
I generally agree but if we’re honest, we have little say in it. Even if a product is assembled in Japan, USA, Germany, or wherever there’s a good chance components may be manufactured in a country like China, Thailand, Vietnam, Korea, etc. That’s the nature of Globalism in the economy. What we can be concerned about is the QA/QC processes and cases of potential human rights abuses... if you care about that sort of thing.
 

jdphoto

Active member
I generally agree but if we’re honest, we have little say in it. Even if a product is assembled in Japan, USA, Germany, or wherever there’s a good chance components may be manufactured in a country like China, Thailand, Vietnam, Korea, etc. That’s the nature of Globalism in the economy. What we can be concerned about is the QA/QC processes and cases of potential human rights abuses... if you care about that sort of thing.
I think putting QA/QC in the same column as human rights abuses is a bit lacking in human sensibility. Who cares about any of it as long as we can buy cheap products?
 
I picked up one on a trip recently and am still starting to use it. So far, however, I am very impressed. I much prefer it to my A7Rii and A7S in terms of handling and the way that it handles M lenses. Most of my M lenses are working very well, even in the corners...better than the A7 series. That said, some are still not perfect. For example the 25mm Biogon has very noticeable smearing. Overall, I think the camera is a breath of fresh air compared to the Sonys. I have not used the SL or Nikon mirrorless, however. I find the color from the Panasonic much nicer, as is the manual lens handling, VF, stabilization, interface for external recorders, and my lord, the battery life! The Sony will literally be 30% drained after a week or two of sitting, and even a full battery only lasts for a 20-30 minutes of 4k recording. They are TERRIBLE. I know they addressed this in the 3 series, but after using the Sonys for video for a few years, the Panasonic is a revelation. The jury is still out on how it handles night shooting compared to the A7S, but it is really quite good. Meanwhile, the body itself is far more versatile since it is 24mp instead of 12 and also has the high resolution mode to give you 96mp in still compositions. I have tried it and it is superb...exceptionally sharp without artifacts. I feel like Panasonic made a very good study of the market and improved across the board compared to Sony cameras in actual use. This is leaving aside the fact that the native lenses seem to be far better as well (assuming you use the SL lenses or Panasonic certified by Leica lenses. Though even the 24-105 is suppose to be very good).
 

Cindy Flood

Super Moderator
I received mine a few days ago and finally had a chance to test a few of my m-mount lenses. I'm not a pixel peeper and don't enjoy testing. I have an uneasy feeling that one side of each photo is softer than the other (which would mean a tilted sensor). I can't tell for sure and doubt that it would mean much in ordinary shooting, but don't want to keep this one if there is a tilt. If anyone looks at these photos and thinks there is a problem with a tilt, please let me know. I have started at #1 with wide open and moved up to f/11 on each lens. I put the camera on a tripod with IS off. I did not have a release. I re-focused on each frame. The photos are here: lens_test .

I opened in LR and applied CA and lens correction. No sharpening or noise reduction or any other adjustments were made.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I received mine a few days ago and finally had a chance to test a few of my m-mount lenses. I'm not a pixel peeper and don't enjoy testing. I have an uneasy feeling that one side of each photo is softer than the other (which would mean a tilted sensor). I can't tell for sure and doubt that it would mean much in ordinary shooting, but don't want to keep this one if there is a tilt. If anyone looks at these photos and thinks there is a problem with a tilt, please let me know. I have started at #1 with wide open and moved up to f/11 on each lens. I put the camera on a tripod with IS off. I did not have a release. I re-focused on each frame. The photos are here: lens_test .

I opened in LR and applied CA and lens correction. No sharpening or noise reduction or any other adjustments were made.
It seems to me that there's stronger vignetting at the top than at the bottom with all lenses except the 15mm. The 25mm is blurry at top left, but I would think that's the lens or the adapter. What kind of adapter do you use? Are you sure that it's properly adjusted and parallel?
 

iiiNelson

Active member
I received mine a few days ago and finally had a chance to test a few of my m-mount lenses. I'm not a pixel peeper and don't enjoy testing. I have an uneasy feeling that one side of each photo is softer than the other (which would mean a tilted sensor). I can't tell for sure and doubt that it would mean much in ordinary shooting, but don't want to keep this one if there is a tilt. If anyone looks at these photos and thinks there is a problem with a tilt, please let me know. I have started at #1 with wide open and moved up to f/11 on each lens. I put the camera on a tripod with IS off. I did not have a release. I re-focused on each frame. The photos are here: lens_test .

I opened in LR and applied CA and lens correction. No sharpening or noise reduction or any other adjustments were made.
At a quick glance, looks like the non-Leica lenses are significantly better performers than the Leica Aspherical lenses. This seems to be the common trend when adapting to non-Leica Cameras without the lens profiles built into the camera’s firmware. The Zeiss lenses and Boigtlander lenses look better but it looks like most will have to try out their own lens collection on these cameras if the intent is to use it as a body specifically for M-lenses... or just stick to native and SLR lenses.
 

Cindy Flood

Super Moderator
Thanks, Jorgen and Tre for your observations. Jorgen, I have an inexpensive adapter. You may be right that the adapter may not be optimum. I didn't want to spend $200-300 on an adapter until I assessed whether using M lenses was going to be viable. I will go ahead and buy a good adapter and then decide what lenses to keep. I am not going to buy another Leica M camera, so if the lens doesn't work with the S1, it will go. I bought an inexpensive FD adapter and have a few FD lenses to try out, as well as one or two R lenses. In the meantime, I have the 24-105 lens.
 

iiiNelson

Active member
Thanks, Jorgen and Tre for your observations. Jorgen, I have an inexpensive adapter. You may be right that the adapter may not be optimum. I didn't want to spend $200-300 on an adapter until I assessed whether using M lenses was going to be viable. I will go ahead and buy a good adapter and then decide what lenses to keep. I am not going to buy another Leica M camera, so if the lens doesn't work with the S1, it will go. I bought an inexpensive FD adapter and have a few FD lenses to try out, as well as one or two R lenses. In the meantime, I have the 24-105 lens.
That was essentially the conclusion I came to as well and many of the newest lenses meet or exceed the optical performance of the Leica M lenses. There’s a few Leica M lenses that I miss and haven’t found a better replacement for but overall I feel like the versatility of any Mirrorless camera exceeds the versatility of any rangefinder camera. If staying in the 24-90 range the point is mostly moot if one is extremely quick to manually focus but outside of those ranges a DSLR or Mirrorless is more versatile to use, frame, and live with.

From everything ive seen the Panasonic lenses are excellent and there’s not a huge optical performance difference between them and the Leica SL lenses. The Leica L lenses are better but I don’t know that they’re exponentially better. I. Plus probably live with the 3 existing Panasonic lenses and add a fast portrait, a wide normal, and an ultra wide prime in time to cover nearly everything I’d need a camera to do. If they released a reasonably affordable (and sized) f/4 or f/5.6 telephoto zoom similar to the Nikon 200-500 then I’d pick that up for wildlife and call the system complete.
 
Hi Cindy,
I think you are probably trying the most difficult lenses for the camera...wide angles and non native sensors do not play well. Before you think it is the body, I would definitely try your native lenses and some SLR lenses. I noticed corner/edge softness in my 35mm Summilux FLE and 50mm Summilux ASPH when they are quite wide open, though they are not too bad, and look good at f 4 or 5.6 and up. I tried the 50mm 1.4 at infinity at 1.4 and it was pretty soft at the edges with strong vignetting, though very sharp in the center. The 25mm Biogon I had was quite soft. In my experience, the 35mm FLE seems better than the 50mm 1.4, and the 75mm and 90mm lenses are very sharp. I am using the M adapter T on the S1.
 

JoelM

Member
I can't say I fully understand the obsession with using film camera lenses on digital bodies.
They render differently. To some, myself included, they are much less clinical. Older Leica lenses tend to give a more 3d look in a 2d media. This was their lens philosophy back in the day when sharpness wasn't the greatest concern to them.

Joel
 

JoelM

Member
I have sold all my Leica M lenses except my old 90mm Tele-Elmarit. For sure, the longer lenses perform much better on adapted digital cameras than the wide angle ones. The Mandler designed lenses also work well, at least the 75mm Summilux did.

As for FD lenses, I picked up an old 20-35mm L lens and it performs quite well on the Sony. Don't know how it would do on the Panasonic.

Joel
 
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