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Phase One IQ4 Linux Source Code

buildbot

Active member
Linux is licensed with GPL v2, which unless I am mistaken, requires that source code and utilities to build a fully valid image be made available upon request. Has anyone tried to contact Phase One for the source code?

edit -
"If this source code is already publicly available, you are obliged to identify the publicly available version you used and confirm that you didn't modify it. If it's not publicly available (usually because you made in-house modifications, creating a derived work of an existing GPLv2-licensed program), you must provide the modified source code upon request." From http://www.landley.net/kdocs/pending/gplv2-howto.html
 

RobbieAB

Member
I don’t think they have to provide enough to build a working image, just the parts that are derived from the open-source codebase.
 

JeffK

Well-known member
What would be the purpose of a request like this? Are you a developer looking to accelerate a feature request?
 

buildbot

Active member
What would be the purpose of a request like this? Are you a developer looking to accelerate a feature request?
Curosity! Plus, I am pretty strong believer in open source. It would be very awesome to have an 150mp linux camera platform.
 

JeffK

Well-known member
One of the core tenants of open source is returning value back to the community. Eg: if the code you used saved you a $100k, you want to make sure that you return that value as additions back to the platform. Adobe and Microsoft are big supporters of open source software and have their own communities they support. I haven’t looked up where Phaseone stands, but I would imagine they follow that ethos too.
 

buildbot

Active member
One of the core tenants of open source is returning value back to the community. Eg: if the code you used saved you a $100k, you want to make sure that you return that value as additions back to the platform. Adobe and Microsoft are big supporters of open source software and have their own communities they support. I haven’t looked up where Phaseone stands, but I would imagine they follow that ethos too.
I hope so! We will see :)
 

JeffK

Well-known member
Could be a case of enough authority to say no, and not enough to say yes. But seek to understand is the best path to follow.
 

buildbot

Active member
Yes linux can use proprietary software, but if you distribute an embedded system with Linux, that's GPL V2 to my understanding.
For example if phase one used stock build root and nothing else, no custom defconfigs, no patches, etc, and then dynamically linked software on top of that, I think that is fine. They would have to confirm that the linux source code is unmodified, and what specific versions they are using still I think. If you modify linux, you have to provide at least the patch files.
In fact, this was the reason Sinar went with the duel-licensed eCos RTOS: https://archive.fosdem.org/2007/sli...Alexander_Neundorf_ecos_in_commercial_use.pdf
1662507340193.png

Very much not a lawyer, just an open source proponent.
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
I think we’d need someone who knows something about copyrights or similar to pipe in. @tcdeveau ?
not a lawyer [yet] but nope nope nope copyrights are not my forte.

first, IP rights are jurisdictional - different countries have different laws and already at the very least we’ve got Americans and Canadians talking about Danish activities crossing borders which is pretty much impossible to unravel without underlying facts

second, in the US, my understanding is that “fair use” is being interpreted in a very broad manner. Even though, by statute, a copyright is supposed to protect against derivative works, the fair use doctrine is at odds with the statute leaving copyright law in flux (see Google v Oracle -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_LLC_v._Oracle_America,_Inc.)….

that’s basically gobbledygook legalese for its not really clear what the state of the law is in the US for software (unless you’re google). My understanding is a lot of copyright cases settle for this reason alone.

should add the disclaimer this is just fun forum posting after an adult beverage or two and not legal advice :)
 
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drevil

Well-known member
Staff member
Just out of curiosity, what is the goal here? are you planing to sue phase to release their linux? would there a good outcome for the general public?

sorry to say so, but why not just let it go, from my current perspective a waste of time, yours and phases
 

buildbot

Active member
not a lawyer [yet] but nope nope nope copyrights are not my forte.

first, IP rights are jurisdictional - different countries have different laws and already at the very least we’ve got Americans and Canadians talking about Danish activities crossing borders which is pretty much impossible to unravel without underlying facts

second, in the US, my understanding is that “fair use” is being interpreted in a very broad manner. Even though, by statute, a copyright is supposed to protect against derivative works, the fair use doctrine is at odds with the statute leaving copyright law in flux (see Google v Oracle -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_LLC_v._Oracle_America,_Inc.)….

that’s basically gobbledygook legalese for its not really clear what the state of the law is in the US for software (unless you’re google). My understanding is a lot of copyright cases settle for this reason alone.

should add the disclaimer this is just fun forum posting after an adult beverage or two and not legal advice :)
Yeah it is very confusing, but my (limited, less than yours probably) understanding is that the Google v. Oracle case was if the API / names of functions in Java itself. I totally agree with Google here actually, if Phase One completely re-implemented the linux kernel API in a clean room setting (as I believe google did with Android Java), then that's golden. But if you use GPL V2 source, you have to share it. A lot of cases with GPL do end in settlements: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_license_litigation
Seems much easier to share the source code, that thousands of developers contributed their free time too. They could have continued to use Windows CE (IQ logs use N:\User as a directory for stuff, seems to imply windows) or whatever they did with the IQ3. Or FreeBSD/OpenBSD...

Certainly IP rights are jurisdictional, but if you sell in a country, don't you have to comply with their rule of law? Sure nobody could compel Phase One to actually provide the source, but it seems unlikely that a product found to be infringing US law makes it through customs.
 

buildbot

Active member
Just out of curiosity, what is the goal here? are you planing to sue phase to release their linux? would there a good outcome for the general public?

sorry to say so, but why not just let it go, from my current perspective a waste of time, yours and phases
Umm holding companies to the licenses of the software they choose to use seems reasonable.

No, FSF will: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-violation.en.html

And if I had ever contributed to the linux kernel, I could personally as well yes.

And from my perspective, it is a great use of time :)
 
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buildbot

Active member
Just out of curiosity, what is the goal here? are you planing to sue phase to release their linux? would there a good outcome for the general public?

sorry to say so, but why not just let it go, from my current perspective a waste of time, yours and phases
And it may be possible to have standing as just a user, though it is an ongoing litigation: https://sfconservancy.org/news/2022/may/16/vizio-remand-win/

If Phase does provide the source code in the end I will likely upgrade to an IQ4 (Achro even?) in order to have basically what would be the best open camera platform in the world.
 
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