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Practical field tethering with MF cameras

cunim

Well-known member
'Back in the day, my company made image analysis software. Most of the code was specific to various analytical tasks, but there was a core function set that supported acquisition devices including fast (video type) and slow (high precision) cameras. The general design was that the camera should disappear and it should seem that you were imaging directly onto the computer. In other words, functions like multiple exposure, frame averaging, stacking, focus etc were all available at the computer screen. So were most of the camera's internal menu options. In use, you never had to touch the camera when tethered.

Once you gain experience with that sort of UI, what we have for MF tethering is disappointing. For example, with my IQ4 under C1 I cannot set up frame averaging at the computer. That function should be hardware based if the back supports it (like the IQ4) or software based if not (like my old IQ180). The user interface would be the same because, to the image user, how the averaging was done makes no difference Same with multiple exposures, pixel shift, etc. Easy. Sadly, I doubt we will ever get there from here.

Like some, I just use C1 for tethered capture and a few basic adjustments (sharpening, white balance). LR and PS do the rest of my editing so most of C1 is useless bloat to me. I get it that many people like C1's editing functions, but If the company had put 10% of the effort into the capture application, I think the software could have been much more capable. Arguably, it could also be more valuable to its investors but that's another discussion.

Anyway, my desktop tether is tolerable with C1, and I don't mean to criticise Capture 1. You do what you know and I am grateful that the MF support is there in C1. In contrast, my portable tether is not handled. I am on PC and have C1 on a Windows tablet, tethering via USB C. That's fine when I am carrying a full kit near the car, but I'm too old to heft all that stuff around in the field. So, I try to use Cascable on my iPhone with wifi live view. If it worked reliably that would be fine as a remote trigger and (slow) LV viewer - but it doesn't (work reliably). I understand ethernet is fine with Cascable, but I can't do that with a phone. Not even sure how to do a hard wire with an IPAD.

What is your experience? Anyone have a good setup that is highly portable, and practical for basic camera control in the field?
 

Ray Harrison

Well-known member
I use Cascable with ethernet on both iPhone and iPad, though I prefer iPad with the larger screen. I’ve used it via WiFi with success - have to turn off transferring the raw file over as WiFi just isn’t useful for that but live view does its job. The iPhone is obviously the more portable of the two. I use a Belkin ethernet/lightning adapter that works well. With the iPad I use an ethernet/USB-C connector that works well (I forget the brand at present but will post later).

My edits are a combination of Capture One and when necessary, Photoshop. I crack open Lr every now and then to stay “down with the kids” :D but otherwise don’t use it and attempt to stay out of the always tedious, always unproductive religious wars. For me, I use what I like and prefer and I’d hope everyone else does too (life’s way too short). What I want from C1 on iPad is live view and effective camera control that mirrors the desktop version as best it can within the context of the platform. Once that’s there I’ll be very, very happy.

EDIT: Also Belkin for the ethernet/USB-C adapter.
 
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Godfrey

Well-known member
My Hasselblad 907x with Hasselblad XCD lenses is 100% tethered controllable with Hasselblad's Phocus app, either wired (USB-C) or WiFi connected, usable from desktop computer (macOS or Windows), iPad, or iPhone (don't know about Android devices). And it's free.

I know that doesn't help much for IQ4/technical cameras, but at least Hasselblad is thinking of the complete system when it comes to MF tethered operation for their equipment. :)

G
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
My Hasselblad 907x with Hasselblad XCD lenses is 100% tethered controllable with Hasselblad's Phocus app, either wired (USB-C) or WiFi connected, usable from desktop computer (macOS or Windows), iPad, or iPhone (don't know about Android devices). And it's free.

I know that doesn't help much for IQ4/technical cameras, but at least Hasselblad is thinking of the complete system when it comes to MF tethered operation for their equipment. :)

G

Yes, well, except for not having tethered live view available for the X2D. This is supposedly in beta (we asked for a beta copy and were not given one). So hopefully not too much longer (12 months is long enough for a feature that should have been there from the beginning).


Steve Hendrix/CI
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Yes, well, except for not having tethered live view available for the X2D. This is supposedly in beta (we asked for a beta copy and were not given one). So hopefully not too much longer (12 months is long enough for a feature that should have been there from the beginning).
I've no idea about what the X2D supports ... I have the 907x Moon edition. ;)

G
 

Adammork

New member
Yes, well, except for not having tethered live view available for the X2D. This is supposedly in beta (we asked for a beta copy and were not given one). So hopefully not too much longer (12 months is long enough for a feature that should have been there from the beginning).


Steve Hendrix/CI
12 months wait for a feature that should have been there from the beginning is considered as a very short timespan in PO land ;)

Sorry couldn't resist - and yes it's amazing the omit of critical professional features from both Hasselblad and PhaseOne
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
PSA: Do not buy and then wait for features. Do not purchase a system that is not fully useful to you in hopes that it will be fixed by a firmware update or release of a new lens. If you can't buy it today and start working with it then it doesn't exist. If a lens hasn't been released, then it doesn't exist. Full stop. There can be prototypes out for evaluation - doesn't matter.

Especially resist the urge to think "it would be easy to add feature X". It is not easy to add feature X. It is not even easy to recompile the same code when the OS updates. NOTHING about production code is easy. And it is especially hard to migrate an existing feature to a new camera. Rewriting from scratch is often easier.

This will save an ENORMOUS amount of headache and pointless aggravation. The X2D did what it said it would do. There was a glitch about Phocus support, but that was well known within a week of release and anyone who hadn't received a unit by then could have cancelled (and others, I hope, could have returned it). If it's not the camera you were hoping for, then that's unfortunate, but it happens. All the time.

(Yes, I post this or variants frequently. I believe it cannot be too often repeated.)
 
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Ray Harrison

Well-known member
PSA: Do not wait for features. Do not purchase a system that is not fully useful to you in hopes that it will be fixed by a firmware update or release of a new lens. If you can't buy it today and start working with it then it doesn't exist. If a lens hasn't been released, then it doesn't exist. Full stop. There can be prototypes out for evaluation - doesn't matter.

Especially resist the urge to think "it would be easy to add feature X". It is not easy to add feature X. It is not even easy to recompile the same code when the OS updates. NOTHING about production code is easy. And it is especially hard to migrate an existing feature to a new camera. Rewriting from scratch is often easier.

This will save an ENORMOUS amount of headache and pointless aggravation. The X2D did what it said it would do. There was a glitch about Phocus support, but that was well known within a week of release and anyone who hadn't received a unit by then could have cancelled (and others, I hope, could have returned it). If it's not the camera you were hoping for, then that's unfortunate, but it happens. All the time.

(Yes, I post this or variants frequently. I believe it cannot be too often repeated.)
Such wonderful advice and all so true. ”Hope isn’t a strategy” and “Hope means Nope”. Personally, what I use and what I purchase are all based on what the system or software does out of the gate. Potential is nice. I’m not without hope :D but I try not to purchase based on it. I’m only human, of course.
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
Even though this doesn't fit into the OP requirement it may be helpful to add. I tried a laptop in the field once..... that was it. I tried using my iPhone with various software versions going back to my 3100 and sometimes it worked great but not always. With my 4150 I was never able to really feel comfortable with any WIFI connection. So I relied on my tried and true method of using a good quality loupe on the Phase high quality LCD. That has always worked for me and has never failed me. By high quality loupe I don't mean a Hoodman. I have never been unable to nail focus or see the entire scene with the correct loupe. I used to have two loupes with me - and that in itself was a lot more than I wanted to carry. My Peak/Schneider loupe could always nail correct focus and if I needed to really see the whole LCD screen under magnification I would take along my Mamiya 6X7 loupe which allows an unbelievably crisp view of the entire Phase LCD screen. That is all I ever needed in all of my 20 years of being a Phase user. Of course going back twenty years I would have looked at the LCD screen of nothing but I hope you get the point....

I hope this helps....

Victor B.
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
I agree, be prepared to use the product, at least for a while, as it initially ships.

But it's our job to also be the bad cop and hold the manufacturer's (all of them) feet to the fire.

The vast majority of these rants from us, you'll never see, but no one is immune.


Steve Hendrix/CI
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
I agree, be prepared to use the product, at least for a while, as it initially ships.

But it's our job to also be the bad cop and hold the manufacturer's (all of them) feet to the fire.

The vast majority of these rants from us, you'll never see, but no one is immune.


Steve Hendrix/CI
Steve,

There are two related, but distinct, issues - personal frustration and pressuring manufacturers.

I'm all for the latter!

Matt
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Hmm. Well, what can I say? I agree with Matt's summary ... it's something I've been saying to people for years ... and I use so few of the features of most of my gear other than the basics, I rarely even notice that the advanced features, bells and whistles, are not there or don't work. I just keep it very simple.

When some of the basic stuff doesn't work, I work with the manufacturers' customer service to do what I can to motivate them towards a solution. But I rarely let it stop me doing what I want to do anyway. I just find different ways ..

G
 

jng

Well-known member
'Back in the day, my company made image analysis software. Most of the code was specific to various analytical tasks, but there was a core function set that supported acquisition devices including fast (video type) and slow (high precision) cameras. The general design was that the camera should disappear and it should seem that you were imaging directly onto the computer. In other words, functions like multiple exposure, frame averaging, stacking, focus etc were all available at the computer screen. So were most of the camera's internal menu options. In use, you never had to touch the camera when tethered.

Once you gain experience with that sort of UI, what we have for MF tethering is disappointing. For example, with my IQ4 under C1 I cannot set up frame averaging at the computer. That function should be hardware based if the back supports it (like the IQ4) or software based if not (like my old IQ180). The user interface would be the same because, to the image user, how the averaging was done makes no difference Same with multiple exposures, pixel shift, etc. Easy. Sadly, I doubt we will ever get there from here.

Like some, I just use C1 for tethered capture and a few basic adjustments (sharpening, white balance). LR and PS do the rest of my editing so most of C1 is useless bloat to me. I get it that many people like C1's editing functions, but If the company had put 10% of the effort into the capture application, I think the software could have been much more capable. Arguably, it could also be more valuable to its investors but that's another discussion.

Anyway, my desktop tether is tolerable with C1, and I don't mean to criticise Capture 1. You do what you know and I am grateful that the MF support is there in C1. In contrast, my portable tether is not handled. I am on PC and have C1 on a Windows tablet, tethering via USB C. That's fine when I am carrying a full kit near the car, but I'm too old to heft all that stuff around in the field. So, I try to use Cascable on my iPhone with wifi live view. If it worked reliably that would be fine as a remote trigger and (slow) LV viewer - but it doesn't (work reliably). I understand ethernet is fine with Cascable, but I can't do that with a phone. Not even sure how to do a hard wire with an IPAD.

What is your experience? Anyone have a good setup that is highly portable, and practical for basic camera control in the field?
I'm probably an outlier (actually I know I'm an outlier) but I've been tethering my IQ4 150 (and IQ3100 and IQ160 before that) in the field to an early 2016 12" MacBook running Capture One. While I wouldn't call this a practical or portable solution, this allows me to check focus, composition and exposure on the actual raw file. It's slow and a bit cumbersome, but it works so I have no plans to do anything differently until the old MacBook finally gives up the ghost. When it does, I might look into tethering to an iPad either via Cascable or Capture One. Or maybe a 13" M1 chip MacBook Air, although at 1.29 kg it's ~30% heavier than my current MacBook, which weighs just under a kilogram.

I, too, was initially annoyed by the inability to fire off a frame-averaged sequence from the computer (Dual Exposure+ works fine). And if memory serves, the same behavior is observed when using a remote trigger. In reality, however, it's not a big deal for me to simply start the sequence from the back using a time delay. And since I often bracket a frame-averaged image with a single shot, I can do so simply by triggering the shutter from the computer without touching the camera, also obviating the need to exit and then re-enter frame-averaging on the back when I'm shooting a string of sequences.

John
 

jng

Well-known member
Yes, well, except for not having tethered live view available for the X2D. This is supposedly in beta (we asked for a beta copy and were not given one). So hopefully not too much longer (12 months is long enough for a feature that should have been there from the beginning).


Steve Hendrix/CI
Hopefully Hasselblad will update both Phocus and Phocus2 (mobile) with live view. This is one feature they really dropped the ball on, which is surprising to me given Hasselblad's long history and experience in studio photography.

John
 
Yes, well, except for not having tethered live view available for the X2D. This is supposedly in beta (we asked for a beta copy and were not given one). So hopefully not too much longer (12 months is long enough for a feature that should have been there from the beginning).
Steve Hendrix/CI
We are "missing" a firmware update for the camera that would enable LV - Phocus is ready and you can tether just not with LV or autosequence capture (although this may have changed).
 

tenmangu81

Active member
Hopefully Hasselblad will update both Phocus and Phocus2 (mobile) with live view. This is one feature they really dropped the ball on, which is surprising to me given Hasselblad's long history and experience in studio photography.

John
Phocus and Phocus 2 mobile work quite well, including live view, for the X1D II. It just looks like a firmware implementation for the X2D.
 

cunim

Well-known member
Lots of good advice in these posts, and some bitterness at the "real soon now" culture that is so prevalent in the industry. I get that. Pity the poor software developers, though. These are small, struggling companies or internal teams. They are small and struggling because they don't know how to be anything else. Not evil, just underfunded and a bit dense. Everyone wants to do a great job for us clients, but it all comes down to money and job security so corporate promises more than they deliver. And we believe them. The good news is there has been an improvement in code quality over the past 15 years. Remember when LV first came to C1, or how reliable Phocus was at that time? Aaargh. Maybe it will all be OK in a decade or so. That's if anyone is still taking digital pictures then. There might just be the film artists and the renderers left.

Ah well, this mustn't become a rant about how to be a better software company. It is what it is.

On the original topic, I have more hope for Cascable. If it worked, that app would do what I want. I have ordered the Lightning to ethernet adaptor (thanks @Ray Harrison and @Mexecutioner ). If that solves my connection issues, Cascable will do fine for walkabouts.
 
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