Price Temperature on SK 60XL

[TechTalk]

You’ve missed the point. The uninformed widow thinks $200 is the market value, not a “very low price” she is willing to take because she is in a rush and doesn’t care.

Which uninformed widow "thinks $200 is the market value"? Your question was:

Would you consider the case of the uninformed widow selling at a tiny fraction of the market value to reflect a “fair” price?

and I described an "uninformed widow" that neither knows nor cares about the "market value" as a seller because to her, it has no appreciable value even though it does to someone else. To her it's just something in the way of plans which are important to her and she wants it gone to make room for something which does hold value in her eyes. I gave you a glaring example of one person's junk being another's treasure. She may consider nearly any price — including a very low price far from "market value" — to be "fair" if it allows her to proceed with her plans.

You’ve missed the point. You see, the "market value" is not necessarily the same as the value to individuals who possess their own motives for buying and selling — and those different "values" can all be seen as "fair" to different parties with individual needs and desires.

Fairness [is] an objective concept, is it not?

The concept depends on who's defining "fair" and "objective", does it not? If those were universally perceived and defined in the same way, there would be far fewer disagreements, lawsuits, and wars.

 

[mristuccia]

I'll avoid commenting about fairness and ignorance, as I know I'd be really nasty on such topics at this point in my life.

Getting back to the point, consider that Cambo charges 1000€ish for a WRS mount and 2000€ish for a WTS one.
So, if one buys a straight 60XL "on the copals", the additional price to have it Cambo mounted is within the 1-2K range. Best case: +1K€ for a WRS mount.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

I'll avoid commenting about fairness and ignorance, as I know I'd be really nasty on such topics at this point in my life.

Getting back to the point, consider that Cambo charges 1000€ish for a WRS mount and 2000€ish for a WTS one.
So, if one buys a straight 60XL "on the copals", the additional price to have it Cambo mounted is within the 1-2K range. Best case: +1K€ for a WRS mount.

He is talking in USD - and don't forget transaction costs, tariffs, etc. effectively you'd want WRS for a lens like this and then 2k EUR is 2325 USD pre tariff, pre-shipping so its more like 2700 - 2800 USD.

So this puts this at around 7-7.5k USD as said. The original Alpa mounts are not available anymore and a HPF ring is another 300-400 bucks in any case.

I think fair market value for cambo is more 9-10k so this was an incredible deal which is why probably he only came back after securing it.

You put one of these suckers on eBay and it'll fetch over time 10k USD+ easily. Alpa even more, likely. There's always someone in a VAT-free place like SGP or HK who will want one of these - China is the world's biggest market for photography and SK lenses are highly sought after for the known reasons, especially the Fab Four, 28, 43, 60, 120A.

 

[mristuccia]

He is talking in USD - and don't forget transaction costs, tariffs, etc. effectively you'd want WRS for a lens like this and then 2k EUR is 2325 USD pre tariff, pre-shipping so its more like 2700 - 2800 USD.

So this puts this at around 7-7.5k USD as said. The original Alpa mounts are not available anymore and a HPF ring is another 300-400 bucks in any case.

I think fair market value for cambo is more 9-10k so this was an incredible deal which is why probably he only came back after securing it.

You put one of these suckers on eBay and it'll fetch over time 10k USD+ easily. Alpa even more, likely. There's always someone in a VAT-free place like SGP or HK who will want one of these - China is the world's biggest market for photography and SK lenses are highly sought after for the known reasons, especially the Fab Four, 28, 43, 60, 120A.

WRS is 1K€, pre tariff, pre-shipping.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

I am not familiar with the detailed pricing tiers today, but I remember if you want tilt and swing it is more expensive than 1k?

A 60 XL would be mounted with all bells and whistles I'd assume?

 

[mristuccia]

I am not familiar with the detailed pricing tiers today, but I remember if you want tilt and swing it is more expensive than 1k?

A 60 XL would be mounted with all bells and whistles I'd assume?

Ah, okay. Then the mount is called "WTS" rather than "WRS".
Yes, as said, WTS is 2K€ + VAT, I've recently done it for my Apo-Digitar 47XL.

I'm still in doubt on whether tilt & swing is really needed for architecture photography, especially for non wide-angle lenses. I see more use of it in landscape photography. But I'm still new to such technique and need to understand how to use it proficiently. I wanted to experiment with it, that's why I decided to invest on it for the 47XL.

 

[Rod S.]

A 60 XL would be mounted with all bells and whistles I'd assume?

Not for me, no.

 

[Doppler9000]

The concept depends on who's defining "fair" and "objective", does it not? If those were universally perceived and defined in the same way, there would be far fewer disagreements, lawsuits, and wars.

It certainly depends on the definition of “fairness”. I view it as an objective concept, like “ethical”. Just because something is objective doesn’t, as you believe, mean that there is one precise definition that is universally held.

As you might say, you are free to make up and adhere to whatever personal conceptions of fairness and ethics you wish.

I do hope there are no vulnerable widows in your social orbit, however. ; )

 

[Doppler9000]

Market price, yes.

In my view it is incumbent on an individual to become informed, ideally prior to selling an item. In other words, I don't accept your premise. Nor, presumably, do individuals that have created a GetDPI account for the purpose of learning the forum view on market price—a rational strategy given GetDPI mandates: "If you are trying to sell an item, you should know what you want for it, so please no listings without stating an asking price".


By couching fairness in terms of personal viewpoint, you seem to have answered your own question...


... and again, through reference to ethics.

I’ll just say that you and Techtalk have more flexible views regarding what is fair and ethical than I.

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Not that it matters, but in my occupational function, when it comes to pricing, being "fair" to me means arriving at a price that we both can agree on (and hopefully are comfortable with). I don't think that really helps this discussion, though.

Anyway, data point, for those wondering - in the USA, a WRS retrofit ranges from $1,590 - $1,710 for Schneider Digitar lenses. Unless they require a spacer for short barrel mount, that costs additional (120mm and longer). For Rodenstock HR lenses, all are $1,710. Same contingency with additional cost is in place for short barrel versions (90mm and longer). Tilt/Swing retrofits add an average of $1,200 - ish.

This pricing includes the current (?) USA tariffs, though some of that cost is being absorbed by Cambo Netherlands and Cambo USA.

While it's pricey to add the tilt/swing fitting, since it is done per lens, if you pinned me down, I'd probably say my favorite implementation of tilt/swing is Cambo, because they can capture a tilt and a swing in the same capture and on the same axis. And adjusting the tilt or swing is very independent of the body, so for precisely registered stitched applications, also a potential benefit.


Steve Hendrix
[email protected]

 

[Ben730]

I'm still in doubt on whether tilt & swing is really needed for architecture photography, especially for non wide-angle lenses. I see more use of it in landscape photography. But I'm still new to such technique and need to understand how to use it proficiently. I wanted to experiment with it, that's why I decided to invest on it for the 47XL.

Regarding architectural photography: I only use tilt/swing with my longer lenses 47XL, 72 XL, 90 HRSW, and 120 Asph.
Tilt/swing is particularly important with the 90 and 120,
for example, if I want to capture a facade detail or a church window completely in focus in a vanishing point perspective.
Here, F11 is not sufficient to achieve sufficient depth of field.

Conversely, tilt/swing is also very useful in architectural photography and monument preservation
with long lenses to highlight details such as a rainwater spout or stonework.
In this case, however, it is used to shorten the depth of field.

With wide angles (23 HR + 32 HR-W), F11 almost always provides sufficient depth of field.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

I guess 60 XL is an edge case where it would make sense to have it

 

[Ben730]

I guess 60 XL is an edge case where it would make sense to have it

If I needed a 60 XL and thought it made sense,
I would definitely go for the TS mount if possible.