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Raw files from Sinar eMotion

elstv

New member
Hi there.
I've recently acquired an eMotion 22 for my contact 645. I've got a eMotion 75 on the way also.
I couldn't get any of Sinars apps to work, and I don't have the original CCD profile files.

After a long battle I finally managed to extract usable DNGs from it. This involved Brumbaers tools running on an ancient version of OSX in a virtual machine.
I'm super happy with the results so far, but I'm wondering if anyone has any better/alternative workflows?
 

buildbot

Well-known member
Welcome to the extremely small emotion DB club!! It’s a cool place to be. Fun fact - they use intel xscale (arm!) processors!

I have been working on a python utility to process emotion22 files, I posted one a little bit ago. also recently got a 75LV - I am working on adding it to the utility.

I was planning to release it once I finished that, though right now it is command line only and big downside, I have not yet figured out how the backs calibration files, the ones that come on a CD that is - are formatted. Instead it relies on a bit of a hack/work on the users part to create “flats”, like in astrophotography. Basically you capture 25-50 frames of a white background to calibrate the relative response for each pixel. You can optionally have a lense mounted when you do this to calibrate the entire optical train even, including removing dust! However, at least on my hy6, only the AF lenses are stored in the files metadata so knowing which flat to use would mostly be a manual process (unless you use a lensless one)

It does support using the bias and dark reference files the back generates every few shots, and spits out a calibrated DNG. I learned a lot about how CCD calibration works and I am sure some of the math is still incorrect, but I am happy with how the files are now.

I’ll get working on finishing it up and post a link here! Maybe with a simple GUI even.
 

buildbot

Well-known member
Capture One?
Does not support Sinar .IA raws to my knowledge.

Edit - yeah it can't see them. Sinar .IA raws are fairly unique and don't include the dark/bias frames(s). The back has these in separate .BR files (and white flats in .WR for the 75LV too!) and their software processes them together to create a finished raw. Brumbaers tool does this very well, but as the original posted said, it only works on 32bit MacOS and that is a bit of pain these days. I think any software that uses libraw under the hood would be able to read the raw pixel data from the .IA files, but it has no idea how to combine the .BR & optionally .WR PLUS the CCD calibration file these backs come with.
 
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anyone

Well-known member
In my experience with legacy hardware it’s a good idea to have for each piece of hardware the fitting computer as well. In the end you can just convert the funky raws to DNG and proceed on your current system.
 

elstv

New member
Buildbot, thankyou for the welcome., Wow that's an impressive project you've undertaken, I look forward to anything you might release. Let me know if there is anything I could help test when you get to that stage.

I have been in touch with Sinar and they have said if I supply my serial numbers they could check their archives (for a fee) to see if they have the CCD files available. Do you think this is a worth having?
 

buildbot

Well-known member
Buildbot, thankyou for the welcome., Wow that's an impressive project you've undertaken, I look forward to anything you might release. Let me know if there is anything I could help test when you get to that stage.

I have been in touch with Sinar and they have said if I supply my serial numbers they could check their archives (for a fee) to see if they have the CCD files available. Do you think this is a worth having?
Haha thank you! Its been a fun project. Once I get it a little more cleaned up/ready for others would love to know how you think the output compares to emotionDNG! Or if you know about color science/math, you could probably tell me what I am doing wrong I am sure are some things still.

The CCD calibration files do seem to be important, but I currently don't know how they work. Possibly the 75LV backs already have their calibration installed, that could be what the .WR (white/flat reference) files being generated are from. I think emotionDNG can build one for you as well? Depends on how much they want in terms of the fee I suppose. I am amazed they have all of their calibration files still, these things are 17 years old at this point!
 

elstv

New member
Sinar said $60 for the reference file (if they have it). I might try this.

In other news I now have two Sinar backs! Long story short, after searching for a year for a Contax digital back, I came across two: an eMotion 22 and an eMotion 75.
Not sure which to keep but probably the 75.

Is this a good forum to sell the second one on?
 

buildbot

Well-known member
@elstv
Took me longer than expected, but I finished a simple GUI interface for processing the .IA files from emotion 22 and 75 backs to DNGs:

Screenshot_2022-10-12_at_3.42.44_PM.png

It uses the .BR and .WR reference files the backs automatically create to correct the shot noise and CCD splits respectively.

Do you have a mac or PC? Right now I have it built just for mac, but I can create a windows build as well.

Would love to get some early feedback on it!
 

elstv

New member
@elstv
Took me longer than expected, but I finished a simple GUI interface for processing the .IA files from emotion 22 and 75 backs to DNGs:

View attachment 197410

It uses the .BR and .WR reference files the backs automatically create to correct the shot noise and CCD splits respectively.

Do you have a mac or PC? Right now I have it built just for mac, but I can create a windows build as well.

Would love to get some early feedback on it!
Please send me anything to try.
 

elstv

New member
In other news I just acquired a 35mm for my Contact 645. It arrived from Japan today. Practically all Contax 645 gear seems to be in Japan.

Also, I'm trying to sell a Sinar eMotion 22.
Now I have the 75, the 22 is surplus. Like London buses, you wait ages for one then two come along at the same time.
 

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
Is there something special about Sinar backs? Just curious why one would go through the hassle at all?

Something relating to adapters / colour science?
 

buildbot

Well-known member
Is there something special about Sinar backs? Just curious why one would go through the hassle at all?

Something relating to adapters / colour science?
I like the adapter system a lot, and they are one of the least expensive backs for a Rollei hy6. With one back you can use it on Mamiya bodies, Rollei 6000(!!), Rollei Hy6, Contax, hasselblad H and V, and more. I also want to adapt mine to some medium format film rangefinders with a custom adapter, which should be possible because you can have the sensor sit inside the film gate area assuming it is large enough.

The color science is quite good in my opinion but I am not sure my library replicates that exactly, though it does apply the calibration files the back generates.

They also turn on quite quickly, and have internal storage which is nice.

Finally, it was very fun and educational! I learned a lot about CCD raw file processing.
 

buildbot

Well-known member
:/ Hmm I will need to build it in a VM haha.
I should be able to get a windows build working as well, just need to not use windows 11 probably.
Oh, of course - I built it on an M1 mac, that is probably at least half the issue…
 
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