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SD Quattro early lemon review -

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
Went trough propaganda posts over other forums and found a link to ONE page of this review. IMHO, the guy who buy the sd Q deserve hall time high glorification. Why they didn't upgraded the SD dslr ???

Anyway, just have a look at it. To navigate, use the calendar (your on 1).

Happy Lemon day !
 

capital

New member
I tried to find the lemons. But all I could really read into maros' link was that he confirms Sigma's own indication that AF sucks on non-SGV lenses.

The frustrating thing for me is that Sigma had a very nice sensor layout, but then they decided to pursue the "next" generation. They already had the hardware to do live-view with Merrils and even before that with 4.7 MP sensor, instead they decided to regress in terms of product readiness and "alpha" testing with the first Q's. If they had scaled the 4.7 MP 1.7 crop sensor up to full frame, it would have made an excellent, relatively noise free 15 MP X3 sensor.
 

The Ute

Well-known member
I tried to find the lemons. But all I could really read into maros' link was that he confirms Sigma's own indication that AF sucks on non-SGV lenses.

The frustrating thing for me is that Sigma had a very nice sensor layout, but then they decided to pursue the "next" generation. They already had the hardware to do live-view with Merrils and even before that with 4.7 MP sensor, instead they decided to regress in terms of product readiness and "alpha" testing with the first Q's. If they had scaled the 4.7 MP 1.7 crop sensor up to full frame, it would have made an excellent, relatively noise free 15 MP X3 sensor.
They went down the wrong road. :(
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
Well, I see the photo (and the others) noisy as possible. I see problems with AF, fugly corners, waterpaint rendering ala Xtrans or oversharpening, top class fringe level with the supposed superior latest 50-100 f1.8 and I see a guy trying to figure out how to fix this in post. Everything is all-right.
 

Tim

Active member
If they had scaled the 4.7 MP 1.7 crop sensor up to full frame, it would have made an excellent, relatively noise free 15 MP X3 sensor.
Such a wonderful, wonderful idea. That sensor is special. IMO if you stay below a certain size the 4.7Mp print looks better than a Merrill. Unfortunately the rest of the camera/s are at best... tedious to use. :banghead:

As you suggest, they should have stayed the IQ king with the 4.7 and not chased low noise with the Q tech.
 

furtle

Member
Well, I see the photo (and the others) noisy as possible. I see problems with AF, fugly corners, waterpaint rendering ala Xtrans or oversharpening, top class fringe level with the supposed superior latest 50-100 f1.8 and I see a guy trying to figure out how to fix this in post. Everything is all-right.
Now the bad news is out of the way, anything good to report?
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
Such a wonderful, wonderful idea. That sensor is special. IMO if you stay below a certain size the 4.7Mp print looks better than a Merrill. Unfortunately the rest of the camera/s are at best... tedious to use. :banghead:

As you suggest, they should have stayed the IQ king with the 4.7 and not chased low noise with the Q tech.
I think they could have jumped directly on a 24x36 15 MP sensor. A big up-scale of the Merrill. 4.7 MP is a bit low seriously. Or at least 12 MP. The Q tech introduce more noise than the previous sensors by the way. I prefer color noise at some places than luma noise everywhere on the photo...

Now the bad news is out of the way, anything good to report?
Yes ! SPP 6.4 is SLOWER than any SPP to date. You can interpret that as a + or a - :)

It is time to send a warning to SIGMA and stop any proselytism or fanboyism. The first generations of DP followed by the S series was just exceptional. I know a lot of leica users who bought a DP2 or a DP2s back in the day. It was unique, light camera and light files, superb IQ. The Merrill was a huge jump in rendering and resolution, more hard to master but still... you know ...

There were a time where many thought that SIGMA, with the DP line, might become a sort of Japanese leica. All was here : compact form, simple menus, 1/1/1 sensor and very good lenses.

They screwed it up big time, so hard that it is unbelievable. X3f files are now beyond comprehension necessitating round trips between SPP / PS / plugins ... while DP2s files was so straight forward good. There is a regression. Regression in compactness and file quality (resolutions isn't the main point here).
There is no way Adobe will integrate such a mess in there program, no way ever.

The sdQ is a lens sucker. Many will need the so famous dock (wtf...) to make lenses work almost correctly. Some will need nose surgery to be able to use the well placed EVF and of course, even if the AF of the SD isn't that much good, the Q af (same as DP) is a regression.

Sigma marketing say : " yea we are committed to our super user base, you know ... " WHO ??? Forum scientists ? Flower and cat shooters ? Speculators ?

Sure they need to start to avoid listening to them for good.

SIGMA it is time to go back to your roots. Go in the mountain with your team to think, over beautiful landscape and Japanese forests. Stop trying yourself at design to win TIPA awards ... Go back to drawing board and invest to resurrect the previous sensor at modern sauce. Invest in dev team to make a real raw developer. CHARGE us for it, many will pay. You betrayed your own quality now it's time to face it, to endorse it and to act. Camera isn't vital for you so take your time. We will be here.



You already have LEAF SHUTTER lenses. Why Hasselblad is able to do it when it is YOUR speciality ??? Craft us serious stuff please.
 

Malina DZ

Member
With Q line ongoing development, where there are no more SPP improvements or FW updates for Merrill users, I know there is no place for any Sigma products in my arsenal, besides my dp2m. I don't even wish to rant about it, as I accepted the "no Merrill" future in Sigma's line.
A 36x24mm X3 Foveon chip alone would make a revolution for me, even with it's mediocre high (800+) iso performance in color. P&S style camera with a leaf shutter? I'm in for any focal length! Allow 3rd party lens adoption, if it's mirrorless, and I'm in paradise!
At one point in time, I'll let my Sony a850 and Canon 6D go, but Merrill sensor will always stay as a benchmark for true color and unaliased detail.
I'm disappointed with Sigma's Q-line direction, but thankful for the Merrills and amazing CS and tech support of DPM line.
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
I just see a disturbance in the force when sigma CEO say :

"My father had a great dream to make the best-quality camera using unique technology. Having taken over the business from my father, it’s my obligation to take over his dream."

... and the reality.

I think actual CEO confuse his own dreams with his father's dreams.
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
SIGMA !!! Think big sensor and fat pixels !! Go sequestrate any foundry CEO to obtain this sensor ! 15 MP full frame 1/1/1 foveon !

My personal guard is quite upset and already craft a landing barge to raid Japan. He want a big DP2s.





Tried my best to stop him but as you can see ... he do not joke. World Champion WPMF. You can't trick him with your kung Fu...
 

furtle

Member
So.. I had a better look at the Lemon Review pics on a better 'puter and screen. This is a screen grab from an enlargement of the tower pic on the first page. I assume the enlargement is 100% crop.

This and all of the other photos really poor with faults all over. Lets hope they are not representative of the production model. Maybe the person taking the photos was just rubbish.

 

Stoneage

Member
So.. I had a better look at the Lemon Review pics on a better 'puter and screen. This is a screen grab from an enlargement of the tower pic on the first page. I assume the enlargement is 100% crop.

This and all of the other photos really poor with faults all over. Lets hope they are not representative of the production model. Maybe the person taking the photos was just rubbish.
Looks very much like noise reduction. I remember Maro has different processings of this image.
But yes, quattro (or SPP) still has a noise problem, especially reds are awful. I honestly don't get it, if we take the reds of a good old DP2 and blow it up to 19.6MP, it looks better than
what Quattro delivers.
Kalpanika can do better than SPP though.
 

scho

Well-known member
So.. I had a better look at the Lemon Review pics on a better 'puter and screen. This is a screen grab from an enlargement of the tower pic on the first page. I assume the enlargement is 100% crop.

This and all of the other photos really poor with faults all over. Lets hope they are not representative of the production model. Maybe the person taking the photos was just rubbish.

Exif from that photo below. I thought these were supposed to be from the new sdQ?
Sigma dp0 Quattro
Lens: Sigma 14mm F4
Exposure: Manual exposure, Aperture priority AE, 1/500 sec, f/7.1, ISO 100, Compensation: +0.7
Date: August 5, 2015 2:28:50PM
Color Space: sRGB
Software: SIGMA Photo Pro 6.4.0
Field Of View: 81.2 deg
File: 3,616 × 5,424 JPEG (19.6 megapixels) 5,557,286 bytes (5.3 megabytes)
 

furtle

Member
Exif from that photo below. I thought these were supposed to be from the new sdQ?
Sigma dp0 Quattro
Lens: Sigma 14mm F4
Exposure: Manual exposure, Aperture priority AE, 1/500 sec, f/7.1, ISO 100, Compensation: +0.7
Date: August 5, 2015 2:28:50PM
Color Space: sRGB
Software: SIGMA Photo Pro 6.4.0
Field Of View: 81.2 deg
File: 3,616 × 5,424 JPEG (19.6 megapixels) 5,557,286 bytes (5.3 megabytes)
Wel, well, well. So it is.

The other pics are from the sd Quattro. The 50-100mm at f2.8. Here are some 100% crop screen grabs from the pergoda







 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
There is a full test of the SDq on the same page. It is not even close to what can output, for example, a Pentax K3ii or a fuji. The goal in photography is to make photography, not to waste time in "sfd" mode to have something close to Merrill, and even less time in PP after the shoot.

You take 70 shoots with any quarto camera, few of those shoot will be worthy to develop and you can start to count hours before sharing your pic.

I said the sdQ is a lens sucker and it is. If you want the best out of it you'll gonna put money on the table for lenses, and only FF ART primes and even ... you'll have to deal with noise at BASE iso. Do you see any noise in my DP2s shoot above or the portrait of Steve ? There is none because there is none. The latest 50-100 f1.8, even if labelled ART is a lie. It is just made for hype "look we can do it" but files are ugly. The Nikon f1.8 line is superior and far cheaper.

If you guys want to be "different" and do not like Canikon... please yourself. Buy a K1. It is cheap, it is weather sealed and rugged, it have some very good lenses and it is superior to any sigma camera to date without speaking about their pixel shift...

The Quattro is cheap because they know you'll need to invest in there best lenses (the ones who work on it ...) to make it shine (but not at Merrill level).

So the one who invest in ART lenses in Sigma mount are a new species of Jurassic ostrich.
 
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