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Sigma DP0 Quattro shots

xpatUSA

Member
I'm not sure I understand you. If it's about in cam jpegs; I've never done these.
Sorry, ! didn't mean that you did or did not use JPEGs.

In the Quattro, are there settings for in-camera JPEGs like "vivid", "standard", etc? Are you able to go to each setting and adjust it to your liking? When you open a new Quattro X3F in SPP are the SPP adjustment sliders all zero? If the sliders are not at zero, do you leave them alone or do you set them all to zero and start from there?

The only point I was really trying to make is that the Quattro might, at as-new default settings, apply more saturation and contrast than some would like when first opening in SPP.

best regards,

Ted
 

furtle

Member
Why are you shooting at -1.7? Did the histogram (before the -1.7 adjustment) blow-off the right side? If not, try shooting bracketed with -.3, 0, +.3 and -.7, 0, and +.7 to see what the sensor captures. I'd be interested in seeing the brackets if you are up to it.

Kind regards,
Darr
Hello Darr,

I deliberately went out to take photos in very tricky light; the lych gate is a perfect example. I set the camera bracketing to -1, 0, +1 and then set the camera exposure compensation to -0.7. So, I have a set of shots -1.7, -0.7 and +0.3

With lych gate and car, I had no blown highlights at -1.7 and could recover the underexposed. I suppose, I feel it is possible to recover the under exposed areas but not recover any blown highlights.

The rest of the photos were also developed at either 1.7 or -0.7. The pylon and ruined barn were at -0.7.

Sorry, I didn't use the camera histogram.

Still experimenting. I try and post a link to the raw brackets shots for you to look at. Probably on Monday.

Thanks

Steve

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry, ! didn't mean that you did or did not use JPEGs.

In the Quattro, are there settings for in-camera JPEGs like "vivid", "standard", etc? Are you able to go to each setting and adjust it to your liking? When you open a new Quattro X3F in SPP are the SPP adjustment sliders all zero? If the sliders are not at zero, do you leave them alone or do you set them all to zero and start from there?

The only point I was really trying to make is that the Quattro might, at as-new default settings, apply more saturation and contrast than some would like when first opening in SPP.

best regards,

Ted
Hello Ted,

ok, I get it now. I'll check later, probably Monday.

Steve
 

Stoneage

Member
Some urban shots from last week and yesterday. Working with the DP0Q reminds me a bit of the SD15. It's easy to blow highlights, but if you get it right, there is a richness in those files, and with the cameras high resolution i was able to shift the perspective of the first shot in photoshop and still have more pixels left than with the Merrill.
Sand noise is dramatically reduced, especially with portrait color mode. I find all other color modes to be "broken" and over processed, trying to fake the Merrill micro contrast and doing weird things to the reds.
So my settings are mostly: portrait mode, luminance NR to the left (off) and chroma in the middle. If you switch chroma NR off, there could be color blotching in some parts of the image.
Bracketing is always a good idea and very good implemented (same as with the DP Merrills) So, some of these shots are HDR or manually combined exposures in photoshop. It depends on the situation. If this camera had a 14 stops DR, it would be a dream. But we have to live with what we get. Still, i find it a very impressive camera.







 
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darr

Well-known member
Some urban shots from last week and yesterday. Working with the DP0Q reminds me a bit of the SD15. It's easy to blow highlights, but if you get it right, there is a richness in those files, and with the cameras high resolution i was able to shift the perspective of the first shot in photoshop and still have more pixels left than with the Merrill.
Sand noise is dramatically reduced, especially with portrait color mode. I find all other color modes to be "broken" and over processed, trying to fake the Merrill micro contrast and doing weird things to the reds.
So my settings are mostly: portrait mode, luminance NR to the left (off) and chroma in the middle. If you switch chroma NR off, there could be color blotching in some parts of the image.
Bracketing is always a good idea and very good implemented (same as with the DP Merrills) So, some of these shots are HDR or manually combined exposures in photoshop. It depends on the situation. If this camera had a 14 stops DR, it would be a dream. But we have to live with what we get. Still, i find it a very impressive camera.
What does Portrait Mode do/change? I do not have a Quattro (rented a Q2 time back), but I am interested in possibly obtaining the Q0, and currently in the researching stage. I appreciate your post findings very much.

Kind regards,
Darr
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
What does Portrait Mode do/change? I do not have a Quattro (rented a Q2 time back), but I am interested in possibly obtaining the Q0, and currently in the researching stage. I appreciate your post findings very much.
Kind regards,
Darr

If it is like the SD15, some "modes" are simply broken. The SD15 was giving the best in "neutral" mode. Standard/vivid was just unusable without minus exposure comp by a huge amount, and again, colors were just not good in those modes. My guess is that it is the same for this Q and the sweet spot is "portrait". Here is a raw to download out of my SD15 just switch mode and you'll see by yourself. Sigma oddity. SD15+50f1.4EX

http://www.hulyssbowman.com/Savings/SDIM1788.X3F

That mean that only neutral mode was able to suck the maximum out of a SD15 raw. I have thousands of examples with whatever lenses, it is the same.

And NO, Quattro sensor and output have nothing in common with pre-Merrill Sensor and output, whatever the so called unknown specialists might say. I shoot every Sigma camera since 2009 and just laughed when I seen it; I do not remember where. I still prefer, so far, rendering of pre-Merrill X3 than the Quattro.

That said, the Dp0Q output the best than other Quattro, a bit like the DP3m outputted the best rendering of the 3 Merrills.

If someone need the olds SPP to try it out let me know. I have them all.
 
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Stoneage

Member
What does Portrait Mode do/change? I do not have a Quattro (rented a Q2 time back), but I am interested in possibly obtaining the Q0, and currently in the researching stage. I appreciate your post findings very much.

Kind regards,
Darr
Portrait mode is more flat and looks even "soft" compared to the other color modes, but it doesn't have less detail.
Other color modes are very hard/harsh on pixel level. Sigma clearly wanted to improve micro contrast after lots of complaints from the users when the first Quattro images were available. But in my opinion it is not really working.
So it's not only a color thing but looks like a different processing.
Here is a sample of Quattro standard color mode versus Kalpanika. Portrait color mode looks similar to Kalpanika rendering. Or at least something in between.
You can see how over processed and dirty the reds are, even the wires in front of the red doors are shining red.

 
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biglouis

Well-known member
Used the DP0Q quite a lot last week on my hols. I will post some more as and when I get round to processing them. I like the way you can mask the LCD for different aspect ratios. 1:1 is reminiscent of my dear departed Hasselblad SWC.

 

furtle

Member
I like the way you can mask the LCD for different aspect ratios. 1:1 is reminiscent of my dear departed Hasselblad SWC.
I'm with you on this. The 21:9 ratio is the same as the Hasselblad Xpan which is a ratio that works so well for some shots. I think of the Q0 as my digital Xpan.
 

biglouis

Well-known member
I'm with you on this. The 21:9 ratio is the same as the Hasselblad Xpan which is a ratio that works so well for some shots. I think of the Q0 as my digital Xpan.
Interesting because I think of it as my digital SWC. Sigma definitely got some things right with this camera.

LouisB
 

biglouis

Well-known member
Here is another from my short holiday on the south coast of England last week. The weather was pretty appalling most of the time and so the photographs are a bit miserable.

 

furtle

Member
Here is another from my short holiday on the south coast of England last week. The weather was pretty appalling most of the time and so the photographs are a bit miserable.

I like what I'm seeing, even if it's miserable weather. It's what we live with and have to work with in Blighted. Capturing the mood without ending up with a flat, grey image is very difficult.

We're off to France tomorrow for a quick road trip down to Cahors and then the Carcassonne area. Taking the DP0Q (plus my A7s for any indoor/low light pics) and I'm sneaking into the glove box my DP3M as I can't bring my self to leave that behind.
 

darr

Well-known member
I like the way you can mask the LCD for different aspect ratios. 1:1 is reminiscent of my dear departed Hasselblad SWC.
Interesting. I feel my ALPA TC + SK 28 + Hasselblad CFV50c is a close SWC.
I still shoot a 501CM for portraits because I love the classic feel. :)
 

Stoneage

Member
Two architecture pictures, trying out polarizer and 1000x ND filter on the Quattro.
30s and 15s exposure.



 

biglouis

Well-known member
I am afraid I have taken advantage of Amazon's 30-day return capability to send back my DP0Q.

The highlights problem reported elsewhere for Quattro sensors was the deciding factor. I found it really difficult to get around. I did try using Lee Seven5 filters with good results. Sharpness of the lens is not disputed. It is sharper than my CV Ultron 21. But the sensor lets it down for me.

I am not trying to put anyone off purchasing the camera just reporting my experience. As I do mostly landscape-type photography, reproduction of sky is paramount. If the truth be known I should only working with MF film but I can't lug cameras like the Hasselblad or similar around town with me any more.

I also have to add that I found the sensor noisy even at base iso, especially pulling out shadow detail. I've never found that with my Merrill-sensor cameras.

I doubt if anyone from Sigma will read this but seriously, what a wasted investment. Sigma camera owners are all gagging for a CSC with an evf. I don't care if it take 30 seconds to save a photograph. I don't care if I can only use it up to iso400 (although I have had fine results up to iso800 with my DP2M). What I want is a single body with a Merrill sensor and 3-4 interchangeable lenses, a 21, 35, 50 and 90.

Come on Sigma - what is so difficult about that?

LouisB
 
I think the main problem is that it takes a great deal of investment to build such a system. Sigma are a (relatively) small, family owned lens maker that dabbles with cameras. They lose money on making their cameras in a way that more conventional companies wouldn't/couldn't tolerate. If they were to "do a fuji" and build an extensive ILC system from scratch, they would likely go bust. It's probably unlikely that you'll see such a thing from Sigma, ever, IMO. But you never know, they may surprise me and whether in the end it turns out to be a foolish pipedream or inspired business vision, they deserve a lot of credit for being wiling to bring Foveon to market when no one else would.



I am afraid I have taken advantage of Amazon's 30-day return capability to send back my DP0Q.

The highlights problem reported elsewhere for Quattro sensors was the deciding factor. I found it really difficult to get around. I did try using Lee Seven5 filters with good results. Sharpness of the lens is not disputed. It is sharper than my CV Ultron 21. But the sensor lets it down for me.

I am not trying to put anyone off purchasing the camera just reporting my experience. As I do mostly landscape-type photography, reproduction of sky is paramount. If the truth be known I should only working with MF film but I can't lug cameras like the Hasselblad or similar around town with me any more.

I also have to add that I found the sensor noisy even at base iso, especially pulling out shadow detail. I've never found that with my Merrill-sensor cameras.

I doubt if anyone from Sigma will read this but seriously, what a wasted investment. Sigma camera owners are all gagging for a CSC with an evf. I don't care if it take 30 seconds to save a photograph. I don't care if I can only use it up to iso400 (although I have had fine results up to iso800 with my DP2M). What I want is a single body with a Merrill sensor and 3-4 interchangeable lenses, a 21, 35, 50 and 90.

Come on Sigma - what is so difficult about that?

LouisB
 

biglouis

Well-known member
I think the main problem is that it takes a great deal of investment to build such a system. Sigma are a (relatively) small, family owned lens maker that dabbles with cameras. They lose money on making their cameras in a way that more conventional companies wouldn't/couldn't tolerate. If they were to "do a fuji" and build an extensive ILC system from scratch, they would likely go bust. It's probably unlikely that you'll see such a thing from Sigma, ever, IMO. But you never know, they may surprise me and whether in the end it turns out to be a foolish pipedream or inspired business vision, they deserve a lot of credit for being wiling to bring Foveon to market when no one else would.
Oh, I totally agree. I've always admired their products. The Merrill line is unique. When I was a Nikon shooter I owned several Sigma lenses and they were fantastic quality (and value). I was thinking in terms of interchangeable MF systems like the Fuji and Mamiya systems where there were only a limited line of lenses. You didn't need more because of the IQ of medium format film. The Merrills are very similar which is why I suggested a system with a limited range of lenses. It is the opportunity cost of the Quattro line which is saddening.

LouisB
 

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
Yea so roughly, you want what I have imagined back in early 2014 ?? I think I crystallised most of what ppl REALLY want, but Japan is pretty slow understanding us.




SIGMA SP : The fusion between SD and DP.


- New Merrill+ "dragon" Foveon sensor , ISO range 100-6400 (pushed 50-8000). 18Mp x 3 = 54 Mp. 24x36mm sensor size.

- 1000 ISO shoots as clean as 100 ISO shoots.

- New processor TRUE IV engine for faster processing and video.

- Video H264 - 30fps / 60fps / 120fps

- Batteries life up to 600 frames.

- First grade aluminium body and aluminium chassis.

- Extensively weather-sealed, all joins and ports featuring protective lips and bungs.

- 3" TFT LCD monitor with brightness/color adjustment and AR coating - 921,000 dots.

- Double SDXC card slot.

- New 4Focus feature : AF, MF by the lens or MF by a custom wheel on the back (ala DP2s). Continuous contrast focus for video and sport action.

- Customisable back wheel.

- Swappable IR filter.

- Electronic level.

- Wifi remote control + tethering options (remote not included).

- Electronic finder - orientable 2.4m dot OLED display pluggable on the hotshoe (not included).

- AF assist lamp.

- No curtain, no mirror, no mechanical pieces for an extra long life.



SIGMA SX
: lens line specifications.


- The world first Leaf shutter compact lenses.

- For now, 3 lenses available - LS19mm f2.8 - LS35mm f1.4 and LS50mm f1.2

- Electronic leaf shutter 30 sec to 1/8000 + bulb mode possible.

- First grade aluminium.

- Extensively weather-sealed
 
It's a nice idea and perhaps one that a company like Sony would have deep enough pockets to fund.

But Sigma are a smallish company building cameras with mainly in-house technology and it shows in their products. For example, the inefficient file sizes from the 3 layer sensor and the huge amount of processing that seems to be required even before the raw gets written to card put big demands on the camera processor, and Sigma don't have those highly specialised, super fast processors of the likes of Digic, Bionz and Expeed at their disposal - they cost too much to develop for a production run of a few tens of thousands of cameras, hence the very slow performance.

Similarly, Sigma lack cutting edge versions of technologies that other brands take for granted (AF, stabilisation, EVFs). They make excellent optics and solidly built cameras but with the developement budgets they have, I can't see them (working alone) mastering all the various state of the art tech and packaging it in one camera like your suggestion. To me, Sigma seem destined to make nicely screwed together but relatively primitive bodies that offer the mimimum functionality required to make a Foveon sensor work and that's it. Niche product only for a small group of fans who love what they do, not state of the art class leading cameras. In some ways it's a great shame that Foveon doesn't get the chance to be show cased in state of the art bodies; on the other hand the big companies chose to stay away from Foveon so it's only by the grace of quirky Sigma that we have the option at all...




Yea so roughly, you want what I have imagined back in early 2014 ?? I think I crystallised most of what ppl REALLY want, but Japan is pretty slow understanding us.




SIGMA SP : The fusion between SD and DP.


- New Merrill+ "dragon" Foveon sensor , ISO range 100-6400 (pushed 50-8000). 18Mp x 3 = 54 Mp. 24x36mm sensor size.

- 1000 ISO shoots as clean as 100 ISO shoots.

- New processor TRUE IV engine for faster processing and video.

- Video H264 - 30fps / 60fps / 120fps

- Batteries life up to 600 frames.

- First grade aluminium body and aluminium chassis.

- Extensively weather-sealed, all joins and ports featuring protective lips and bungs.

- 3" TFT LCD monitor with brightness/color adjustment and AR coating - 921,000 dots.

- Double SDXC card slot.

- New 4Focus feature : AF, MF by the lens or MF by a custom wheel on the back (ala DP2s). Continuous contrast focus for video and sport action.

- Customisable back wheel.

- Swappable IR filter.

- Electronic level.

- Wifi remote control + tethering options (remote not included).

- Electronic finder - orientable 2.4m dot OLED display pluggable on the hotshoe (not included).

- AF assist lamp.

- No curtain, no mirror, no mechanical pieces for an extra long life.



SIGMA SX
: lens line specifications.


- The world first Leaf shutter compact lenses.

- For now, 3 lenses available - LS19mm f2.8 - LS35mm f1.4 and LS50mm f1.2

- Electronic leaf shutter 30 sec to 1/8000 + bulb mode possible.

- First grade aluminium.

- Extensively weather-sealed
 

biglouis

Well-known member
Yea so roughly, you want what I have imagined back in early 2014 ?? I think I crystallised most of what ppl REALLY want, but Japan is pretty slow understanding us.




SIGMA SP : The fusion between SD and DP.


- New Merrill+ "dragon" Foveon sensor , ISO range 100-6400 (pushed 50-8000). 18Mp x 3 = 54 Mp. 24x36mm sensor size.

- 1000 ISO shoots as clean as 100 ISO shoots.

- New processor TRUE IV engine for faster processing and video.

- Video H264 - 30fps / 60fps / 120fps

- Batteries life up to 600 frames.

- First grade aluminium body and aluminium chassis.

- Extensively weather-sealed, all joins and ports featuring protective lips and bungs.

- 3" TFT LCD monitor with brightness/color adjustment and AR coating - 921,000 dots.

- Double SDXC card slot.

- New 4Focus feature : AF, MF by the lens or MF by a custom wheel on the back (ala DP2s). Continuous contrast focus for video and sport action.

- Customisable back wheel.

- Swappable IR filter.

- Electronic level.

- Wifi remote control + tethering options (remote not included).

- Electronic finder - orientable 2.4m dot OLED display pluggable on the hotshoe (not included).

- AF assist lamp.

- No curtain, no mirror, no mechanical pieces for an extra long life.



SIGMA SX
: lens line specifications.


- The world first Leaf shutter compact lenses.

- For now, 3 lenses available - LS19mm f2.8 - LS35mm f1.4 and LS50mm f1.2

- Electronic leaf shutter 30 sec to 1/8000 + bulb mode possible.

- First grade aluminium.

- Extensively weather-sealed
Hulyss - I would take half of what you have on offer, even a tenth as long as the EVF - which incidentally I agree should be a clip on giving you flexibility to use either an EVF or an optical finder - is developed and as long as I can have one body and 3-4 lenses, one of which needs to be equivalent to 21mm. I don't even need fast lenses. I'll use a tripod or as they are leaf shutters I can shoot them down to 1/30th with ease. And it must be the Merrill sensor. Please!

LouisB
 
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