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Sigma DP2 Quattro Shots

rgbtxus

New member
First, I'd like to thank Quentin for starting the Merrill thread that I tripped across last year. I've since acquired the triumvirate and despite their almost limitless limitations vis-a-vis my other cameras (you all know the list -- laughable battery life, glacial processing speed, poor DR ...), I am so happy I bought them since when you feed them the light they crave they stand toe to toe with my D800E and produce outstanding images. One thing I have never satisfactorily dealt with, which I see in Quentin's Thames shot is the magenta/green patchiness in the dark tones (the river here). I always find it distracting. Does anyone have a suggestion for how to mitigate this foveon artifact without otherwise harming the image?
Thanks,
Richard

p.s.: and no slight meant to the other posters of outstanding images on these threads, it's just that I happened across Quentin's posts first ;-)

Peter

Less pop, but still some crackle

I mean that the micro contrast now looks more like any other camera, but the pixel level sharpness is still high.

I have been playing around with the most recent Thames trial image, and decoded double size direct from SPP using the settings illustrated, with a tad more sharpening in Photoshop provides an image that looks very good at 80mp.

This is bearing in mind the fact I am using SPP on my business laptop, where I don't have the more advanced processing options I have available on my main imaging PC, such as PhotoZoom Pro to upscale, Neat Image NR, or various sharpening tools. These conversions (and the conclusions I am drawing from them) are thus very much interim and probably capable of improvement.

I'm not sure about the tree foliage or the slight blurring of the "Marriot" sign (in red, above the arch, centre-right) but then I have not completely wound down the NR in SPP. On the other hand, most of the remainder of the detail is exceptional and on a par with the Merrills.
 

The Ute

Well-known member
Thanks Quentin.

I agree. Less Pop.

Less micro contrast and "foveon" look.

Which to my way of thinking is a step back.
 
Nice shot of the Thames, Quentin.

I'm not seeing the per pixel sharpness that my DP2 Merrill provides and I'm also seeing a slight haze over the entire image as well as the red/green blotchiness in the water that Richard mentioned earlier.

What most attracted me to the Merrill was the incredible per pixel sharpness... especially in distant objects. While the resolution appears good in the Quattro, I'm not seeing the clarity along the edges of details that I always see in my DP2M.

It will be interesting to see how Sigma adjusts for this in future firmware revisions... but for the time being I won't be an early adopter of the Quattro.

Lawrence
 

Quentin_Bargate

Active member
Lawrence, All

I think the haze might simply be a lack of contrast. It was a slightly hazy early evening. I am far from anywhere near getting to grips with optimum processing settings. What is clear is they are likely to e very different from the Merrills.

The green/purple blotchiness is an issue, present also in the Merrills.

Clearly the DP2Q is a pretty hopeless high ISO camera. It is a fixed lens design, so it also lack versatility and it has no optical or even electronic viewfinder. These limitations it shares with the Merrills. The only reason to use this camera over the Merrills is if it has other qualities that compensate.

When I look at the Q series, I am looking at a camera that I might use instead of not just my Sony A7R, but also my Hasselblad H5D where weight and size are at a premium. Optimistic? Absolutely, but I use a camera like the H5D on a tripod, or carefully hand held, and I think that if the DP2Q has been well designed, with decent software, the differences should not be screamingly obvious. The defects I have an issue with at the moment are those that affect the image even when used at base ISO, such as blotchiness or artefacts, if any.

Over the weekend, I will try a quick non-scientific side by side shootout with the DP2M and Sony A7R just to see if the Q has a dog in the fight. I am going to suggest it just might..;)
 

octagone

New member
Thank you for these photos.

It is true that one loses the distinct and contrasting of merrill made​​. Although I loved rendering merrill, I prefer rendering the best quattro. It seems more natural to me. I have the impression that this is the NPC who has made ​​the most realistic, compared to merrill, and bayer APSC and FF.
With its definition, are very high level of detail, but more velvety rendering, colors, quattro seems to me the apn which is closest rendering MF.

Too bad there was still sometimes drifts magantas and green colors, in some photos.
 

G43

New member
The mentioned haze I saw in all files around. Also the awesome Diglloyd files. It is there all the time... and Chambers calls it dust.
Think it is a signature of the DPQ and eventual the SPP.

Quentin, you do everybody a lot of favor posting your files. I prefer a skilled unbiased photographer to elaborate how he finds the IQ.

Also a thank you from me having started the Merrill thread that holds so many magnificent images.
 

foveon

Member
....Over the weekend, I will try a quick non-scientific side by side shootout with the DP2M and Sony A7R.....
And please, include shots of nature, trees and grass; IMO geometry is easy to interpolate for digital cameras, organic forms will show the differences, eg your Thames pic, all is tackle sharp exept the trees, there I dont see much rendering and detail.
Have a busy weekend:toocool:
 

Quentin_Bargate

Active member
And please, include shots of nature, trees and grass; IMO geometry is easy to interpolate for digital cameras, organic forms will show the differences, eg your Thames pic, all is tackle sharp exept the trees, there I dont see much rendering and detail.
Have a busy weekend:toocool:
It will be done and dusted in half an hour or so, Foveon. I don't usually do this sort of comparative testing, preferring to rely on my own judgment. It will include grass and tress as those are the areas of potential weakness I also see.
 

scho

Well-known member
Peter

Less pop, but still some crackle

I mean that the micro contrast now looks more like any other camera, but the pixel level sharpness is still high.

I have been playing around with the most recent Thames trial image, and decoded double size direct from SPP using the settings illustrated, with a tad more sharpening in Photoshop provides an image that looks very good at 80mp.

This is bearing in mind the fact I am using SPP on my business laptop, where I don't have the more advanced processing options I have available on my main imaging PC, such as PhotoZoom Pro to upscale, Neat Image NR, or various sharpening tools. These conversions (and the conclusions I am drawing from them) are thus very much interim and probably capable of improvement.

I'm not sure about the tree foliage or the slight blurring of the "Marriot" sign (in red, above the arch, centre-right) but then I have not completely wound down the NR in SPP. On the other hand, most of the remainder of the detail is exceptional and on a par with the Merrills.
Quentin,
Thanks for posting your results with the Q. I think that files from this camera do need some additional processing help to bring out detail. I ran your Thames image through Topaz Adjust 5 using the "mild detail" setting only and it does seem to bring out more of the Merrill look. Looking forward to more of your tests with this interesting camera.

Drop box image with Topaz adjust
 

adsf

New member
Is it possible for you, to load up the images as raw? Im interested in SDIM0010.jpg (the colorful one) and in the one of the river.
 

Quentin_Bargate

Active member
I have uploaded two raw files, one taken with the DP2M and one with the DP2Q.

This is the scene, lots of foliage to mull over, as requested:



And here are the two raw files


Apologies, hopeless Dropbox bandwidth restrictions mean I have had to remoive these links


Settings: both tripod mounted, AWB, 100ISO, F/8 @: 1/320 sec. Focus on stables. Sigma Photo Pro 6.04 for Windows.

Make of it what you will, but my feelings are as follows

The Quattro slightly out-resolves the Merrill. Foliage is well resolved by both, but distant foliage appears slightly crisper (higher contrast, not higher resolution) with the Merrill. Colour balance is more accurate and saturation lower by default with the Quattro, but this can of course be adjusted to suit taste.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is as much testing as I propose to do :cool:
 
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Rand47

Member
OK, Quentin, you're not off the hook that easily! :) But thank you for the RAW files!

Conclusions! If you owned neither camera, Merrill or Q, based on what you see which one would you buy - and why - if you could only buy one. (That last proviso is necessary because anyone who drives and Aston Martin can probably afford both! SMILE!)

Rand
 

Quentin_Bargate

Active member
No idea, Rand.

The Quattro is probably the better camera. Higher resolution, more "normal" looking files, but therefore less exciting. I remember the excitement when I first decoded a Merrill raw. I don't get that same excitement with the Quattro, but I do see a better balanced file with very high resolution.

Importantly, both fit nicely in the glove compartment of the Aston :ROTFL:
 

Hulyss Bowman

New member
No idea, Rand.
The Quattro is probably the better camera. Higher resolution, more "normal" looking files, but therefore less exciting. I remember the excitement when I first decoded a Merrill raw. I don't get that same excitement with the Quattro, but I do see a better balanced file with very high resolution.
In Japanese this translate like that :

Only the swords crafted by a great smith are inspirational.
 
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