Small technical cameras, an overview and comparison

[nickw]

The Arca-Swiss Pico looks great too. It's a bit lighter and more compact. People who have it say it's very sturdy. You get less flexibility in how you can mount lenses and you get less movement range, but you also get access to other kinds of lenses that I can't use as easily on an F-Universalis.

I have thought about this too. In principle it seems possible to use the 110mm to Pico B mount adapter plate. Thus opening up all the same options as the Pico. However all these adapters would certainly add up price wise.

Although, perhaps the adapter plate is what you meant by "as easily". I wasn't sure, so I thought I would mention it.

 

[foster_jb]

Keep in mind that after you get your first technical / monorail / pancake camera, you'll learn a lot more about your needs. And your needs will likely change at some point. If you like to "tinker" around and are also good with CAD drawings, you can really create anything you like to help with your changing needs.

I remember when the first Sony A7R came out, and it was Such a game-changer. Mirrorless???!!! Few took it seriously, at first.

At the time, I had an Arca Swiss Monolith. Which I Love. And which is also a Beast... Hauling that huge beast out and around for jobs was Not Fun. Even with assistants.

Arca Swiss came out at the time with the Universalis. It looked interesting, but it wasn't "right" for my needs. It just didn't have the "Sony A7R mindset."

I like to tinker. And I like CAD. So I found quality linear stages from a Japanese firm. With both coarse and fine settings, plus locks. And then I designed a moveable "L" bracket in CAD, that could use my existing format frames from Arca Swiss. But would also (better) incorporate a Sony A7R camera body.

This was done back in 2015 or 2016. And while the result lacks the beauty of the Pico, it has a lot of the same functionality. Especially for 40 MP cameras at the time.

And now I see the Pico. And I love it. It looks wonderful. It also looks familiar, and about 9 years too late...

To be clear, I buy ARCA gear. I am not advocating DIYing everything. And certainly NOT copying anything...!

But with some simple changes, you can morph your first camera into other variations which may better support your needs on certain projects. Or with certain new camera bodies and sensors.

The important thing, is to get that first technical camera and understand its possibilities and limitations. Then, get creative.

The first five photos here show what I called the "mini" ARCA. The 5th photo shows it on top of the Monolith, to understand the difference in scale. And the last photos are (crappy) mobile phone pics showing a Sony A7R mounted.


Best,
John

 

[accwai]

The Arca-Swiss Pico looks great too. It's a bit lighter and more compact. People who have it say it's very sturdy. You get less flexibility in how you can mount lenses and you get less movement range, but you also get access to other kinds of lenses that I can't use as easily on an F-Universalis. Importantly, the Schneider-Kreuznach APO-Digitar 35/5.6 works on an F-Universalis with GFX or Hasselblad mirrorless bodies (with restricted movement though). It doesn't work at all on a Pico with mirrorless GFX or Hasselblad.

Umm... First and second part of your paragraph don't agree. Elaborate a little perhaps?

By the way, the F-Universalis has DSLR and 6x9 forms. The latter can mount the much more physically precarious Rodentstock 35/4,5 Apo-Sironar Digital on flat lensboard and still without signficant movement restrictions. So we would assume you're referring to the F-Unviersalis DSLR only right?

 

[Geoff]

Did you look at the Techno too?

 

[rdeloe]

Umm... First and second part of your paragraph don't agree. Elaborate a little perhaps?

By the way, the F-Universalis has DSLR and 6x9 forms. The latter can mount the much more physically precarious Rodentstock 35/4,5 Apo-Sironar Digital on flat lensboard and still without signficant movement restrictions. So we would assume you're referring to the F-Unviersalis DSLR only right?

Sure, but what is not agreeing? If it was not clear in my post, I'm referring exclusively to using the Pico and the F-Universalis with mirrorless bodies like GFX or Hasselblad X.

 

[John Leathwick]

Also look at Balpro TS from Novoflex. FYI that it EXISTS too, with certain pros and cons.

It is the one bellows camera that's always missing in these discussions - it is extremely compact and sturdy and most often relegated to macro use only because the two standards only do 10mm shift left / right.

BUT. With an Arca Swiss Cube you can flip the Balpro and you have 20mm rise. On top there's a shift adapter you can buy which allows you to additionally shift or transform the Balpro in an XY camera.

It is especially useful if you do a mix of product photography and normal photography because both standards can be moved, meaning for focus stacking you can just move the back standard.

This last point is not unique to the Balpro TS - I do all of my focus stacked macro on my F-Universalis moving the back standard. My usual lenses for this are a pair of Olympus OM bellows lens mounted via a custom made OM board, based on an A-S Copal 1 board.

-John

 

[Paul Spinnler]

This last point is not unique to the Balpro TS - I do all of my focus stacked macro on my F-Universalis moving the back standard. My usual lenses for this are a pair of Olympus OM bellows lens mounted via a custom made OM board, based on an A-S Copal 1 board.

-John

View attachment 226601

I am surprised the Balpro never gets so much love, I have one without TS and use it in my scan rig.

I guess it’s the fact that you need to have a Cube or sth similar to get to rise. But they are nifty little bellows cams with exemplary sturdiness especially for close-up work.

You are right re the standards, it’s not unique, but I do think they are very stable and I suppose best suited for macro, exactly the kind of photography you are showing here.

Wanted to at least have it mentioned given we're talking about small bellows cams and this one is really small and flexible.

 

[miriquidi]

Hi All,

I'm new, it's good to be here. I'm also looking for my first technical camera, so I'm working through this too. I read many of the posts here, all the blog articles I could find (several times), and anything else I could. Thank you to everyone here who shared.

Is there any expectation in the purpose of the images to take aka maximum achievable print sizes? Can you use some of your other (digital?) equipment for this first steps? For instance an APS-C sized camera (Canon EOS M or Sony NX ) can act as back on "full frame" (35 mm format) lenses. All you need, is an adapter + holder for the inbetween.
That's of course not top notch quality like from an 50 MP CMOS back, but maybe enough.

 

[rdeloe]

Is there any expectation in the purpose of the images to take aka maximum achievable print sizes? Can you use some of your other (digital?) equipment for this first steps? For instance an APS-C sized camera (Canon EOS M or Sony NX ) can act as back on "full frame" (35 mm format) lenses. All you need, is an adapter + holder for the inbetween.
That's of course not top notch quality like from an 50 MP CMOS back, but maybe enough.

Two of my favourite projects were shot with a Fuji X-T2 and a crappy Kipon tilt-shift adapter. I still like this work. It prints well up to 16" on the short side.

How we see trees. This one made it into LensWork (for what that's worth).

The Season of Ice. This one was rejected by LensWork (for what that's worth).

 

[nickw]

Keep in mind that after you get your first technical / monorail / pancake camera, you'll learn a lot more about your needs. And your needs will likely change at some point. If you like to "tinker" around and are also good with CAD drawings, you can really create anything you like to help with your changing needs.

The important thing, is to get that first technical camera and understand its possibilities and limitations. Then, get creative.

Hi John, I'm not sure if this was directed at me, or the OP. But that is my plan: Get something and start shooting. I have no doubt I'll learn more about my wants/needs with time. I did try and do lots of reading up front, to hopefully avoid any big blunders.

Your modified Monolith looks great. I can see how much smaller it is. I would have loved it if the Pico had been more like this.

Is there any expectation in the purpose of the images to take aka maximum achievable print sizes? Can you use some of your other (digital?) equipment for this first steps? For instance an APS-C sized camera (Canon EOS M or Sony NX ) can act as back on "full frame" (35 mm format) lenses. All you need, is an adapter + holder for the inbetween.

I would like medium format for the 16 bit files, dynamic range, and leaf shutter lenses for flash sync. I want to use the back on both a handheld body and technical camera. But it's not just about my needs, this is also something I've wanted for 20 years.

I posted a hello and two images in the Introduce Yourself forum, if you want to take look. It will give you an idea of some of my previous landscapes.

Two of my favourite projects were shot with a Fuji X-T2 and a crappy Kipon tilt-shift adapter. I still like this work. It prints well up to 16" on the short side.

How we see trees. This one made it into LensWork (for what that's worth).

The Season of Ice. This one was rejected by LensWork (for what that's worth).

For what it’s worth, I prefer the Seasons of Ice series. These also go to show that having a photographic vision, skills and interesting subject matter are more important than the camera used.

 

[Niddiot]

I happen to have both and use them with the CFV100C. They are chalk & cheese. Despite the numbers the Techno is a solid lump and feels very heavy compare to the arca, it really is a solid lump. Like the original Nikon F you really could bang nails in with the Linhof. It has a level of precision that the Arca just doesnt have. I find the arca easier to pack with back fitted. I dont see how you can use a Techno without using a Phase or CFV 100c.

I find it difficult to go backward & forward between them due to the different haptics. Principal differences are that I have to change bellows more often with the Linhof, 35mm requires bag bellows with the Linhof but conversely the longer side is easier without adding additional rails. The universal bellows with the Arca work from 35(recessed panel) up to 180. The universal bellows with the Linhof cover around 40mm up to 150mm.
The adjustments on the Linhof are very very fine, especially the rear rise/fall, you can buy add on knobs to make it quicker to operate on the rear but it is slow (or precise depending on your POV).
Thirdly the Arca fits direct to clamp on the tripod head. The Linhof needs a long arca fit lens rail with anti rotation before it can be attached to a tripod clamp.
In use the Linhof has locks on most adjustments and is fully geared on all adjustments, Swing on the arca is manual.

There are many other small differences which you would only notice when they are side by side but which is better is purely down to how it feels in your hand. I keep the Linhof because it came from a good friend and it is like having Ansel Adams 10x8 but otherwise I would continue to use the Arca.

I am away from home without either camera at the moment but if you have any questions then happy to try to answer or send pics.
Dave

 

[rdeloe]

For what it’s worth, I prefer the Seasons of Ice series. These also go to show that having a photographic vision, skills and interesting subject matter are more important than the camera used.

Thanks for the feedback. I have favourite images in both projects.

I still smile about the feedback accompanying my rejection from LensWork for the Season of Ice project. Brooks Jensen is a straight shooter. He told me, in a nutshell, that the work was good, but he didn't accept it for publication because "any photographer who saw what you saw would have made those pictures". I was quite miffed at first, but soon thereafter I stumbled across pictures by Dororthy Kerper Monnelly and William Neill that I could have slipped into the project and nobody would have been able to distinguish them from mine. There are several in my project that are more distinctly me, but it's true that there are enough of the "anyone would have made these" pictures to tip the scales. So it goes.

 

[accwai]

Sure, but what is not agreeing? [...]

First the Pico can access lenses that are difficult for the Universalis, then Univeralis DSLR can deal with 35mm Apo-Digitar XL while Pico for Mirrorless cannot. Not strictly disagreeing I suppose... In any case, what are the lenses that Pico can access that are difficult for the Universalis?

[...] Principal differences are that I have to change bellows more often with the Linhof, 35mm requires bag bellows with the Linhof but conversely the longer side is easier without adding additional rails. The universal bellows with the Arca work from 35(recessed panel) up to 180. [...] Swing on the arca is manual.

We would assume an Arca Swiss body for digital back and has manual swing is the F-Universalis 6x9 correct? The four pleat leather bellows that comes standard in the Universalis 6x9 package isn't long enough for a 180mm lens, so you're using the six pleat leather bellows then? I reckon the six pleat univrsal bellows stretched to the limit would get one to 6 feet of the subject, which is like 26"×19.5" subject field size on a 33x44mm sensor.

Now on the 35mm side, how much shift room do you have? A four pleat bellows on 15mm recess lens board already got packed enough that only a little bit of wiggle is allowed. The six pleat bellows wouild be packed so tight that there is unlikely any wigigle room left, if the setup could focus to infinitely at all. A photo to illustrate the setup would be helpful here...

And while we're talking about recess board, are you able to use mechanical cable release and plug in a PC flash sync cord? If so, I am very curious how. Pointers would be greatly appreciated

 

[rdeloe]

First the Pico can access lenses that are difficult for the Universalis, then Univeralis DSLR can deal with 35mm Apo-Digitar XL while Pico for Mirrorless cannot. Not strictly disagreeing I suppose... In any case, what are the lenses that Pico can access that are difficult for the Universalis?

Pico can use the ARCA 24 and ARCA 50, which are re-housed Canon t-s lenses mounted on Pico boards. It can also take Phase One blue ring lenses. You need the Aperture Control E-Module to use these lenses, but it seems to be nicely integrated. There is a Canon aperture control board for the F-Universalis, which allows you to use native Canon EF tilt-shift lenses. I haven't used this on my F-Universalis, so I don't know whether it is well integrated and performs well. To the best of my knowledge, there's no way to use Phase One lenses on F-Universalis. Maybe someone else can chime in with a solution if I'm wrong.

If you're using a GFX body on a Pico or F-Universalis, most wide technical camera lenses are simply out. The APO-Digitar 35/5.6 appears to be unusable on a Pico with GFX. It's officially not usable on an F-Universalis with GFX, but if you are willing to live with max 7.5mm of shift, it works great; it's a core lens in my F-Universalis + GFX outfit.

 

[Niddiot]

First the Pico can access lenses that are difficult for the Universalis, then Univeralis DSLR can deal with 35mm Apo-Digitar XL while Pico for Mirrorless cannot. Not strictly disagreeing I suppose... In any case, what are the lenses that Pico can access that are difficult for the Universalis?



We would assume an Arca Swiss body for digital back and has manual swing is the F-Universalis 6x9 correct? The four pleat leather bellows that comes standard in the Universalis 6x9 package isn't long enough for a 180mm lens, so you're using the six pleat leather bellows then? I reckon the six pleat univrsal bellows stretched to the limit would get one to 6 feet of the subject, which is like 26"×19.5" subject field size on a 33x44mm sensor.

Now on the 35mm side, how much shift room do you have? A four pleat bellows on 15mm recess lens board already got packed enough that only a little bit of wiggle is allowed. The six pleat bellows wouild be packed so tight that there is unlikely any wigigle room left, if the setup could focus to infinitely at all. A photo to illustrate the setup would be helpful here...

And while we're talking about recess board, are you able to use mechanical cable release and plug in a PC flash sync cord? If so, I am very curious how. Pointers would be greatly appreciated

I'll answer your questions tomorrow when I get home if that is OK

 

[nickw]

To the best of my knowledge, there's no way to use Phase One lenses on F-Universalis. Maybe someone else can chime in with a solution if I'm wrong.

Hi Rob, I tried to share above in post #41, but it may have been missed. Arca-Swiss makes a 110mm lens board to Pico B mount adapter plate.

 

[rdeloe]

Hi Rob, I tried to share above in post #41, but it may have been missed. Arca-Swiss makes a 110mm lens board to Pico B mount adapter plate.

Very nice. That's a good backwards compatibility decision.

We have so many good choices these days.

 

[Niddiot]

Sorry for delayed reply. This my Arca kit:



Quote:
We would assume an Arca Swiss body for digital back and has manual swing is the F-Universalis 6x9 correct? The four pleat leather bellows that comes standard in the Universalis 6x9 package isn't long enough for a 180mm lens, so you're using the six pleat leather bellows then? I reckon the six pleat univrsal bellows stretched to the limit would get one to 6 feet of the subject, which is like 26"×19.5" subject field size on a 33x44mm sensor.

A:The arca 6x9 has manual swing, that is correct. I am using the six pleat bellows. Yes, it will do a little closer than 6ft but ability to tilt would be compromised.



Now on the 35mm side, how much shift room do you have? A four pleat bellows on 15mm recess lens board already got packed enough that only a little bit of wiggle is allowed. The six pleat bellows wouild be packed so tight that there is unlikely any wigigle room left, if the setup could focus to infinitely at all. A photo to illustrate the setup would be helpful here...

A: OK, with the 35mm lens in a 5mm recessed panel and 6 pleat bellows a full range of movements is available well beyond the image circle of the 35mm HR Digaron F4 I have. 20mm of shift in either vertical or horizontal direction is possible. Swing is limited to between 10 & 15mm. Panos are easy with rear shift.



And while we're talking about recess board, are you able to use mechanical cable release and plug in a PC flash sync cord? If so, I am very curious how. Pointers would be greatly appreciated

A: Yes, with 7mm recess board then both cable release and PC cord are available for use. The cable release is perfectly OK as is but you can use one of the 'L' adapters if more space is needed. If you orient the lens so that the connections point to the corners then you have lots of room.




To answer the question of weight of the Techno vs the Arca.. a fully loaded Arca with 6 pleat bellows, 35mm Digaron and back weighs in a 2.632kg. The Techno (mk I) weighs in a 2.351 kg without lens and back. So with back and lens the Techno will weigh around 50% more than the Arca.

I would think carefully about a Techno. I sold my Arca when I got the Techno but it bounced back due to some issues with the rotafoot that I just hadn't noticed. I am glad it did because it is a far better field camera: light, flexible and wholly intuitive to use. The configuration with the CFV100C is perfect imho, the rotafoot works well but doesnt have the compact 'designed for' feel.

 

[Geoff]

Great description and thanks for answering the questions.
Noticed that in the side view, the front standard is 10mm down, and the rear is 25mm up. Is that just how you set it up to account for the back, or is this showing something else?

 

[Paul Spinnler]

The problem with the "small (bellows) tech cams" is that they're not really that small. A lot of these geared standard implementations make them a bit unwieldy and tall.

Maybe a Techno is not that bad at all as it seems more compact to transport.