So, who is buying a Alpa these days?

[jotloob]

I am working with an ALPA TC , SWA (the most beautiful Camera ever , for me) and an ALPA 12 PLUS + 4 DIGARON lenses (28mm , 40mm, 70mm and 90mm)
I did not buy these cameras and lenses as status symbols , but because these cameras are extremely precise and very well made .
ALPA Cameras and HASSELBLAD digital backs (all of them , CFV39 , CFV50 , CFV II 50c and CFV 100c) fit extremely well together .
All of the mentioned cameras and lenses are the very best horses in my stable .

 

[Paul Spinnler]

I think every Alpa buyer has high standards for himself and his work and although there may be some status oriented people buiying their products, the main point is that you commit to a photographic practice - privately or professionally - with the wish of the highest quality available to be at your disposal. So in that respect the Alpa customer persona is someone with very high standards for himself and who is content with only the best, but doesn't need everything. Similar to the choice of buying an M6 for analog street photography vs any other cheap 35mm camera out there.

As said, people who then go on to complain about the price are not only those who cannot afford it, but also those who don't get what it is about. They better stick with plastic cameras and that's all totally ok.

If you are serious about photography as a way of life, what difference does it make to spend a bit more on a purchase which will last more than 10y?

You buy Alpa and you keep it, that's the point.

If you don't fit in this bracket you can happily buy a Fuji, Hassy or CaNikon - no problem.

 

[lookbook]

Hans Keist: Chinesische Kund:innen, die eine ALPA kaufen, sind meist passionierte Amateurfotograf:innen. Sie gehören zur wohlhabenden Schicht und sind sehr vermögend. Sie kaufen mit einer ALPA vor allem eine Geschichte und ein Statussymbol. Professionelle Fotografierende in Asien kaufen hingegen eher selten unsere Kameras. Aber diese Tendenz gilt tatsächlich auch für den europäischen Markt.

Hans Keist: Chinese customers who buy an ALPA are usually passionate amateur photographers. They belong to the affluent class and are very wealthy. With an ALPA, they are primarily buying a story and a status symbol. Professional photographers in Asia, on the other hand, rarely buy our cameras. But this trend actually also applies to the European market.

I agree more with the facts described by the owner of Alpa than the perceived reality of some users here.

 

[akaru]

Ah the old Mac vs PC debate has deteriorated once again into ad hominems. Enough of that.

I’ve owned a full kit of each system. Alpa is more expensive by far, and often heavier. And sometimes with less functionality. I’ll admit to even thinking, at one point, that the brand was for the dilettante. But as Paul and others attest, there’s just something about them once you use it. Mr. Chew and Darr have been around the block (or up the mountain) a few times and didn’t choose their kit without extensive research and testing.

That said, I would recommend Cambo to anyone starting out, and AS to the old hats or very price conscious. There are pros and cons to each, so to each his own.

For me, a great deal on a used Pano will give me years of joy and utility.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

I cannot stress enough the fact that many top photographers - not amateurs - into tech cams already bought an Alpa years ago.

An Alpa Max is so well made that you DON'T need to buy one again if you bought one in 2009.

The array of top of the line Alpa users globally is staggering, from multiple Magnum photographers like Raymond Depardon, Mark Power and more to the whole Düsseldorf School including titan Andreas Gursky you cannot deny that its a tool widely used by the finest photographers gracing galleries worldwide.

The point is they buy them once - not every year. The fact that rich amateurs buy them too doesn't change this unique pedigree.

Its the Leica of tech cams, essentially.

Its as old as the Amen in the church to moan about the pricing of Leica gear as well.

And you can bet that Noctiluxes were almost a currency in China at one point, I remember vividly the opening of the Leica store in Wetzlar which I attended when they opened shop and you had dealers from Hong Kong frantically buying up limited edition sets of M systems and Noctis.

Doesnt change the fact that an M is a fantastic camera.

 

[ThdeDude]

... who buy an ALPA are usually passionate amateur photographers. They belong to the affluent class and are very wealthy. ... they are primarily buying a story and a status symbol. ...

Maybe this could be the target audience of P1's XC line! Not sure whether I meant this seriously or with a touch of sarcasm.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Maybe this could be the target audience of P1's XC line! Not sure whether I meant this seriously or with a touch of sarcasm.

Steve mentioned at one point that the XC's main market is China, essentially.

Makes sense with 1bn+ people.

 

[lookbook]

Maybe this could be the target audience of P1's XC line! Not sure whether I meant this seriously or with a touch of sarcasm.

.. one can assume that the boss of Alpa knows what he is talking about ..

 

[Paul Spinnler]

.. one can assume that the boss of Alpa knows what he is talking about ..

So what is your problem with Alpa exactly?

On the one hand you owned Alpa cameras, keep on whining that they didn't have replacement parts for a product that has been discontinued for YEARS (which is normal, btw) and on top yourself mostly shoot random stuff out and about with your point-and-shoot AF Fuji camera – very clearly you are not their target audience. Not even remotely.

It almost looks like some sort of brand grudge where you're trying to justify to yourself that you cannot afford it really - or what's happening here?

I think you fit the bill of the budget oriented Fuji customer perfectly, so all is good ... but the question remains then ... why did you in the first place buy into Alpa gear?

Seems a bit inconsistent ...

 

[lookbook]

Alpa and Leica cannot be compared -
If I send my M3 to Leica, which is over 60 years old, they will service it and/or repair it to the best of their ability!

Alpa cannot do this after a model has been discontinued so soon.
Leica has its own production and development - Alpa outsources it...

Leicas have been used daily for decades - some with just one lens.
They are not just bought - they are also used!!

Here are the convinced Alpa users with 4 lenses and 3 bodies - or was it the other way around? and you hardly see any pictures.
And what could possibly break when they are taken out of the case onto the tripod and back again when the photo has been taken?

What kind of system is it that requires 3 bodies for 4 lenses?

 

[ThdeDude]

.. one can assume that the boss of Alpa knows what he is talking about ..

One would assume! But then, one never knows whether or not he is wearing his Marketing & Sales hat?

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Alpa and Leica cannot be compared -
If I send my M3 to Leica, which is over 60 years old, they will service it and/or repair it to the best of their ability!

Alpa cannot do this after a model has been discontinued so soon.
Leica has its own production and development - Alpa outsources it...

Leicas have been used daily for decades - some with just one lens.
They are not just bought - they are also used!!

Here are the convinced Alpa users with 4 lenses and 3 bodies - or was it the other way around? and you hardly see any pictures.
And what could possibly break when they are taken out of the case onto the tripod and back again when the photo has been taken?

What kind of system is it that requires 3 bodies for 4 lenses?

So, your frustration with Alpa runs deeper than just their service policies, doesn't it?

You commend Leica for servicing a 60-year-old M3 but find it ludicrous that Alpa doesn't maintain discontinued specialist models indefinitely. Expecting perpetual support for every niche product seems a bit unrealistic, especially when dealing with specialized equipment. In this instance an extra large decommissioned studio tech cam from twenty years ago.

You mention that Alpa users have multiple bodies and lenses yet "hardly see any pictures." Interestingly, you once invested in Alpa gear yourself. If the system is so impractical, what drew you to it initially? Perhaps there's an inherent contradiction in criticizing others for choices you once made.

It seems your resentment might stem from feeling let down by Alpa and possibly from hidden envy? toward those who continue to enjoy their products. Dismissing others as elitist or pretentious could be a way to mask your own disappointments. After all, not everyone uses their equipment in the same way, and owning multiple bodies or lenses doesn't diminish the value they find in their photography. In your case shooting seemingly high amount of objects and posting it online vs say Magnum photographers producing award winning photography with their Alpas and a film roll.

Maybe it's worth reflecting on whether this disdain is truly about Alpa's practices or if it's fueled by unmet expectations and personal frustrations. Unmasking these feelings might offer a clearer perspectiv, rather than projecting them onto others who have different preferences and resources.

As a result you choose to consistently post slightly biased commentary on Alpa as a brand on forum posts.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

One would assume! But then, one never knows whether or not he is wearing his Marketing & Sales hat?

He's looking at it from a business perspective, meaning its a distribution problem to grow Alpa - he essentially was a turnaround manager and by accident got called in when they had problems with cashlow during the pandemic and after having done some wrong investments into cinema projects which of course was stupid. He then outright took it over, feeling it is a great challenge to bring Alpa forward in the coming years – I am personally very happy about it, being an early and long time customer of the brand.

The prior owners got carried away in the technical side of it, missing the market completely and investing truckloads of money into cinema lens projects for example - which you should not do if you have no clue, frankly.

To survive they will first have to a) manage distribution well so more people see the cameras, which they do with workshops and b) then over time innovate which requires significant cashflow.

I wish them well and will continue to expand my collection and will regularly pay them a visit, although recently they changed offices and its now a lot farther away from me than before.

 

[lookbook]

So what is your problem exactly?

.. I have no problem at all -
I am talking about my own experiences with a product.
I don't know what else I should report/evaluate other than what I have experienced, seen and just read.
You can also read what the boss of Alpa has to say about his target group.
It is not really flattering.

But on the subject...
It must be possible to express a justified opposing opinion without being attacked in a malicious way.
But maybe you can't help it.

One more question -
What camera did you use to take the picture of your SWA?
It is a bit blurry! : )

Best regards

 

[anyone]

Gentlemen, be nice to each other!

What I like about Cambo and Linhof is that they support you as well as they can. Buying a tech cam is a large investment so I guess one can expect a long service life as well. It may not be cheap to service a Linhof, but it's possible, and that counts for me.

Alpa cameras are really beautiful indeed. I'm not in the market for one and probably will never be, but I really appreciate the pictures that are taken with it which we see from time to time in the forum.

 

[tcdeveau]

Gentlemen, be nice to each other!

What I like about Cambo and Linhof is that they support you as well as they can. Buying a tech cam is a large investment so I guess one can expect a long service life as well. It may not be cheap to service a Linhof, but it's possible, and that counts for me.

Alpa cameras are really beautiful indeed. I'm not in the market for one and probably will never be, but I really appreciate the pictures that are taken with it which we see from time to time in the forum.

I received great service from Alpa when I needed it and they were always very responsive via email. Forum sponsor CI did the same.

Some things re: service are out of all tech cam manufacturers hands right now, SK lens parts, copal shutters, etc...

I had planned for my own Alpa journey to be a 10 year one but then life happened. It's a fantastic system and it worked well for me. Didn't require a lot of maintenance or firmware updates either haha.

 

[Steve Hendrix]

One way to think of Alpa's circumstance is that they "outsource" their production. Another is that they have a longstanding partnership with a very high qualtiy manufacturing company.

My concern with this segment is not so much Alpa, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Linhof, .... Silvestri (?), and how they are each doing, but how is the segment overall doing? I feel that more photographers should be using these type of systems, and that their photography would benefit. On a certain level, a photographer would be very serious about their craft in order to then be using one of these systems, and maybe there aren't enough truly serious photographers (who can also afford it). I feel that almost any photographer can improve their work if they are serious enough, and these systems lend themselves to that.

Cost is also a limiting factor. The best available lenses are very expensive now (either Rodenstocks, or the occasional used unicorn SK premium). I'm also concerned that the cost of these lenses has driven many to seek lower cost alternatives, which is fine on the one hand, but on the other, in addition to compromising on their image quality by not using the best glass, new lens purchases that are not happening threaten the continuing participation of Rodenstock, the sole quality supplier to the industry. Surprised he didn't mention Hasselblad. If lenses are that expensive, having a 100mp, BSI-based digital back for $8k would seem to help in that regard for overall cost of ownership.

While Hans Keist did mention the wealthier portion of the Chinese market being focused on "status", there are too many technical elements that are uniquely beneficial to an Alpa product to think of owning one as merely a symbol of status. And enough working photographers and dedicated enthusiasts who rely upon the system to achieve their results.

I do also feel that many don't realize that investing into a tech camera system is a long term investment, as was noted above. That same camera, those same lenses, purchased 10 years ago, there's no need to change, regardless of technical advances (more manifested on the back end).


Steve Hendrix/CI

 

[lookbook]

Expecting perpetual support for every niche product seems a bit unrealistic,

Alpa is a niche product!

You can't buy the SWA new anymore either? - And a number of other cameras from this brand are no longer available either.
Alpa doesn't have M3, M2, M4, M5, M6, Mp.
There are always new models without any maintenance or further development of the existing ones.
Therefore, there are no spare parts for older models.

I have clearly stated my reasons for writing here.
You like to enter the area of speculation.
You are wrong about me! So don't do it, not just because it is wrong,

Kind regards

 

[Paul Spinnler]

One way to think of Alpa's circumstance is that they "outsource" their production. Another is that they have a longstanding partnership with a very high qualtiy manufacturing company.

My concern with this segment is not so much Alpa, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Linhof, .... Silvestri (?), and how they are each doing, but how is the segment overall doing? I feel that more photographers should be using these type of systems, and that their photography would benefit. On a certain level, a photographer would be very serious about their craft in order to then be using one of these systems, and maybe there aren't enough truly serious photographers (who can also afford it). I feel that almost any photographer can improve their work if they are serious enough, and these systems lend themselves to that.

Cost is also a limiting factor. The best available lenses are very expensive now (either Rodenstocks, or the occasional used unicorn SK premium). I'm also concerned that the cost of these lenses has driven many to seek lower cost alternatives, which is fine on the one hand, but on the other, in addition to compromising on their image quality by not using the best glass, new lens purchases that are not happening threaten the continuing participation of Rodenstock, the sole quality supplier to the industry. Surprised he didn't mention Hasselblad. If lenses are that expensive, having a 100mp, BSI-based digital back for $8k would seem to help in that regard for overall cost of ownership.

While Hans Keist did mention the wealthier portion of the Chinese market being focused on "status", there are too many technical elements that are uniquely beneficial to an Alpa product to think of owning one as merely a symbol of status. And enough working photographers and dedicated enthusiasts who rely upon the system to achieve their results.

I do also feel that many don't realize that investing into a tech camera system is a long term investment, as was noted above. That same camera, those same lenses, purchased 10 years ago, there's no need to change, regardless of technical advances (more manifested on the back end).


Steve Hendrix/CI

Spot on, Steve. Especially accessibility and long-term perspective are key when weighing an Alpa investment.

Its a generational shift that happened and the new generation usually, after trying these cameras in a workshop, DOES fall in love. Problem is accessibility and understanding of tech cams as a tool and the real math behind it which is essentially a long term investment in gear which stands the test of time.

I spoke with Hans at length multiple times since he joined and I really appreciate him being onboard with a very rational, thought through approach vs. before the old management which had become a bit lenient on the strategic side after some "fat" years between end of 2000s and mid 2010s when orders from China / RoW literally came in on a daily basis. I was once told that end of 2000s you could come in at Alpa's HQ any week and see literally new boxes and boxes of lenses shipped out worldwide.

I bought my first Alpa gear almost 15 years ago and my 43XL from back in the day is still the best wide-angle I could ever want.

Truly spectacular RoI compared to the 3-4 Leica M bodies I had in-between.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Alpa is a niche product!

You can't buy the SWA new anymore either? - And a number of other cameras from this brand are no longer available either.
Alpa doesn't have M3, M2, M4, M5, M6, Mp.
There are always new models without any maintenance or further development of the existing ones.
Therefore, there are no spare parts for older models.

I have clearly stated my reasons for writing here.
You like to enter the area of speculation.
You are wrong about me! So don't do it, not just because it is wrong,

Kind regards

Lookbook

You mention that you have no problem with Alpa, yet your comments throughout this thread suggest otherwise. Let's consider some of your statements:

- "I agree more with the facts described by the owner of Alpa than the perceived reality of some users here."

By emphasizg the CEO's comments about Alpa buyers being wealthy amateurs seeking status symbols, you imply that Alpa users aren't serious photographers. This overlooks the many professionals and dedicated enthusiasts who rely on Alpa equipment to produce significant work.

- "Here are the convinced Alpa users with 4 lenses and 3 bodies... and you hardly see any pictures."

This generalization unfairly portrays Alpa users as collectors rather than active photographers, dismissing the substantial body of work created with Alpa gear by renowned artists and professionals. In fact, Alpa is used by the global photographic fine art elite - the Who is Who of photography is well represented in Alpa's user base.

- "Alpa cannot do this after a model has been discontinued so soon."

Comparing Alpa's serviceability to Leica's isn't entirely fair due to the difference in scale and resources between the two companies. Leica, being a significantly larger manufacturer, can maintain parts and service for decades-old cameras like the M3. Alpa, as a niche brand with only a few employees, may not have the capacity to offer the same long-term support for discontinued models, nor is it needed especially in the case of an XY. On top, the SWA is available for purchase new, so I am not sure what you mean by that.

Moreover, you previously mentioned:

- "I sold my last Alpa (XY) to China "

If Alpa products are as impractical as you now suggest, what motivated you to invest in them initially? This contradiction indicates there might be underlying frustrations influencing your perspective and some dissapointmet you had with the brand leading to continued bias.

To sum up: Your repeated emphasis on Alpa users being wealthy amateurs seems biased outside-in. While some Alpa customers are indeed affluent enthusiasts, many are serious photographers - both amateurs and professionls - who choose Alpa for its precision and quality and have high standards for themselves + they appreciate high quality workmanship which is why they're willing to pay for it.

@anyone , I appreciate your call to keep the discussion civil. My intention is to address these evident bias points respectfully and encourage a constructive dialogue. Let's focus on sharing our experiences without unfairly generalizing or discrediting others.

Everyone can choose their camera and Alpa is a very fine choice, indeed.