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Suggestion for first 8x10 camera

M

macmx

New member
I am looking to buy my first 8x10 camera. It will be used exclusively with normal to medium lenses, most likely just a 300mm to begin with. I almost never use anything other than normal lenses, no matter the format. It will be used for landscapes only so I just need rise, fall and tilt. I would prefer something that is light and easy to setup, wood or metal, folding or non-folding. My 4x5 is an Ebony RSW45 and ideally I would have liked the exact same camera in 8x10, if that were possible today.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks!
 
What's your budget. You can go high end Arca Swiss rail or you can go cheap China foldable or you can get a a Gibellini luxury thingie or you can buy used on ebay a Toyo OR a more utilitarian Canham - not sure he still is in the business.

If your budget is more 2k - CHINA. If it is more 6k+ Arca, etc.
 
My budget is fairly generous if I can convince myself that it’s a forever camera like the Ebony was. Maybe the Arca Misura or something like that. However, there is also an argument to be made that it would be better to try perhaps an Intrepid first and see how I get along with 8x10.
 
Thanks. I don’t have experience with rail cameras, always field cameras, but the Arca seems like a good combo with a folding rail. Definitely needs to be foldable somehow.
 
I've used them all.

AS is the absolute king for movements and accuracy when you get orbix. The issue for me always boiled down to portability. Bringing it into the field just becomes a hassle and with exposed bellows you're always being mindful of any aspect of your pack rubbing it. However, I'd say now is a great time to get one second hand as the price of film is driving casual fans out and I've seen a number of AS 810 metric with orbix on eBay for like 4500 bucks, that's a nearly 8k camera new.

Otherwise, the best bang for your buck is a second hand Chamonix. It's a rip off of a Phillips at a fraction of a price. They used to be way cheaper new but they've seen a massive price hike. They're strong, pretty rigid and Hugo is a real nice guy who will fix issues ASAP.

Canham is shutting down and his son is now making crappy 3d printed cameras. Thats lind of lame given their legacy.

As much as Ebonies are revered they're collector pieces at this point. No reason to spend 10 grand on a wooden camera.
 
Ultimate utilitarian camera: Richard Ritter.

I have his 11x14 and it works but it's put together by a master woodworker who loves using stuff you can grab at your local hardware store. Which is awesome when something loosens and you lose a small piece.
 
www.chamonixviewcamera.com

810 Alpinist — Chamonix View Camera

The 810 Alpinist In response to customer requests and user feedback, Chamonix has designed the 810 Alpinist, an ultralight, horizontal-only view camera. By "ultralight" Chamonix means that the Alpinist is only 57% the weight of the 810V model. The 810 Alpinist is for the photographer th
www.chamonixviewcamera.com www.chamonixviewcamera.com
... a dream I never fulfilled! : )
 
The Chamonix looks lovely. I have the 4x5” and it is a really nice piece of kit.

I also had a 8x10” Wista field camera. It is nice but heavier than the Chamonix.
 
With regard to new 8x10 field cameras, one is generally restricted to Chamonix and Shen Hao, smaller one-man-band manufacturers not withstanding. There is the Intrepid, but I've heard mixed reviews and having seen one in the flesh (plywood and plastic), I'm not too enthused if you're looking for a forever camera. It's effectively an entry point camera into 8x10 and, as such, serves that purpose very well. If you want to see if 8x10 is for you then the Intrepid is one path to go, but take into account some restrictions (which may put you off 8x10) that may not apply to more expensive, better built, cameras. Alternatively, second-hand options are numerous, and this path may be a better option if you get a well-made example (Wisner, Deardorff, etc.). Second-hand cameras will hold their price, so you shouldn't lose any money when you move it on if you decide not to go with 8x10.

If you decide 8x10 is for you, you mentioned the non-field camera Arca Swiss Misura. Their other 8x10's are worth considering as well, the F-classic, etc. More expensive than a Chamonix or Shen Hao (or second-hand Deardorff) at around 6,000 to 7,000 €, but at around 4kg (9lbs), same weight as a Chamonix, it makes any of these a viable option, particularly as they can be broken down and the weight distributed about one's person when hiking off into the wilderness. It also has the advantage of precise movements which will be important if you like to use a shallow depth of field. Also, weight for weight, they're a little sturdier for the heavier 'normal' lenses required. Being modular, you can add another film format (by exchanging the rear standard and bellows) if your future self thinks that way. Price, while high, is still half the asking price of an used 8x10 Ebony! It would be a forever camera.

I used to be a field camera person (Ebony), but once I discovered the liberation of a monorail camera, I never looked back, but the tactile and sensory allure of a wooden field camera is very much still there. Practicability ruled over emotion.


Cheers,
Duff.
 
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Hi @macmx,
welcome here. Few weeks ago I asked Richard T Ritter to build an 8x10" for me. His website is here: https://www.lg4mat.net/index.html

Richard worked years for Zone VI before he started his own business. His 8x10" cameras are light and at least in my comparison of what I need outperform Chamonix, Fasquel and others. The price is also ok. I will get mine sometime end of May.

See for example this video on youtube:

Regards,
Ralf
 
macmx said:
My budget is fairly generous if I can convince myself that it’s a forever camera like the Ebony was. Maybe the Arca Misura or something like that. However, there is also an argument to be made that it would be better to try perhaps an Intrepid first and see how I get along with 8x10.
Click to expand...
From Arca Swiss I have used an F-Line Classic, the M and the Misura all only in 4x5 but made a living as an architectural photographer with those, when film was the only serious choice.

The Misura was the one I enjoyed the most, by far… very stable, somehow compact with the folding rail, one bellow that cover the whole range - if I was going to get an 8x10 today, the Misura would be on top of my list.

Not related to 8x10, but I’m shooting 4x5 again commercial, now with a Technikardan, I really like the design in many ways, but some days I still miss my old Misura, especially when I change bellow for the +10th time the same day…. ;)
 
Owner here of the Arca Swiss Misura 8x10 (bought recently, first shooting yesterday) and the Gibellini GP810V2 (I've shot with it for about a year now). Both great cameras, each has its strengths and quirks. No matter which camera you decide on, there will always be "grass greener on the other side" thoughts creeping in. A lot of personal preferences that you will discover only after some time shooting with the camera. Some relate to what lenses you use, or how quick you want the camera set-up / pull-down to be. Without further ado, what I think about my 8x10 cameras - bear in mind, that my use is mostly architecture (abandoned factories, urbex etc.):

Gibellini GP810V2 - strong points:
  1. looks and feels amazing, it really does...
  2. Alessandro replies on WhatsApp within minutes, even on week-ends. List prices are not necessarily final prices - he sometimes has cameras ready to ship and can offer a discount.
  3. solid and sturdy, when everything is tightened
  4. packs nicely and compact, no sharp points, easy to grab, set up and handle, no bits and pieces sticking out when packed
  5. no rail to poke you in the chest when examining the ground glass with a loupe
Gibellini GP810V2 - weak points:
  1. not sure about the film holder insertion mechanism - it is compact, sturdy and foolproof but you need to operate it with both hands, with some force, and be careful that you do not leave it open when focusing for the next image (happened to me a few times - out of focus images, of course)
  2. the knobs have no hard stops - if you loosen them too much, they will fall off... have chased them a few times at the bottom of my backpack
  3. like with all folding design cameras, there are many steps to set the camera up for shooting and to fold it down - a sequence of knobs to loosen and tighten, with care needed to avoid mangling the bellows and making sure that everything is aligned and tight before you put the camera in the backpack
  4. need to make sure that the rear standard is square and tight every time - if you don't, it is easy to move out of alignment when inserting film holders
  5. a 150mm lens or shorter will not focus to infinity unless you angle the front standard backwards which then makes you refocus after any rise movement - to avoid this, you need to chase down an expensive and hard to find Sinar recessed board (but with that, it focuses to infinity just fine).
Arca Swiss Misura 8x10 - strong points:
  1. fast to set up and fold down - important for me because of where I shoot (abandoned places), I don't necessarily want to hang out too long, fiddling with my camera
  2. rear standard does not allow any tilts or swings - this would be a weak point for landscape photographers but I like it, because I don't have to check all the time whether I have tightened it / not whacked it out of alignment
  3. very few knobs: movements are not geared (unlike the F-Metric cameras) and the Orbix is "Dynamic", i.e. not geared but to move with your hand. It is easy to leave some of the movements (like front swing) in a semi-tight state and just grab them and position with hands. Again, some people may prefer geared (and I don't blame them; I also have the 4x5 F-Metric with Micro-orbix and it is sweet). But for what I shoot, and with the lenses I shoot (often 150mm), this actually simplifies things a lot and makes it easier to grab the right handles for the limited number of movements that I need.
  4. no need for recessed lens board for my 150mm lens (but bag bellows ideal for more pronounced movements)
Arca Swiss Misura 8x10 - weak points:
  1. the bail mechanism works well but care needs to be taken that you don't insert the film holder the wrong way or past the hard stop, because the handle faces the opposite way than with some other cameras and there is no fool-proof mechanism to prevent the holder going too far, beyond the stop - don't laugh, happened to me yesterday, with the inevitable light leak.
  2. when shooting with a short lens (like my 150mm Nikkor), there is a long section of the rail left unused, ready to poke you in the chest, face or other body part when focusing with a loupe under the dark cloth (now, the image on the ground glass is so large that "who needs a loupe", right...?)
  3. the section of the rail where it breaks/folds is very sharp and will tear the lining of your bag quickly if you insert the camera in it vertically
  4. the little widget that sits at the back of the rail and attaches the long side of the rail to the rear standard for storage is beyond fiddly
  5. Arca Swiss support through the Arca shop in Germany is solid but kinda 20th century - you write them an email, they don't reply for a week or two. So you call them, they say they had seen your email and were going to reply but they didn't have the info from the factory in France yet. So, you kinda need to put a little urgency in the matters yourself. It all works out fine in the end, but is not exactly the 21st century, instant response that you get from Alessandro if you buy a Gibellini camera.
On a side note: my Arca Swiss Cube holds the Misura 8x10 just fine but struggles to keep the Gibellini in solid position (prefer the Gitzo 1570 with a long clamp installed on top, or a Foba Superball with an RRS long clamp, for the Gibellini).

There are also a lot of satisfied users of Chamonix 8x10 cameras, so definitely worth checking them out, too. They seem to be lighter and great for use on the move (especially the Alpinist X model looks amazing).

In summary, it is not easy to choose the right camera right at the beginning unless you have a very specific use case in mind and some experience already with a smaller format. Having all features and movements available (like with the Arca F-Metric) is not necessarily an advantage, if you don't need them - they tend to involve many knobs and moveable parts than can confuse you and result in mis-focused images if you forget to tighten them every time.
 
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Adammork said:
Not related to 8x10, but I’m shooting 4x5 again commercial, now with a Technikardan, I really like the design in many ways, but some days I still miss my old Misura, especially when I change bellow for the +10th time the same day…. ;)
Click to expand...

Check out the very nice leather Chinese bag bellows for the Technikardan (seller called myhoyeah or something like that on eBay...cost 160 Eur). I had the original textile bag bellows but it disintegrated and I was too frugal to fork out 600 Eur for a new one, for use with the 72XL. I found out that the Chinese bellows was nicer than the original and I can use it even with longer lenses (135/150 when not focusing too close), without needing to swap. So I keep it on all the time...no swapping of bellows and also easier to fold down, without the great care needed with the original harmonica bellows which tends to get mangled if one is not totally puristic about the folding procedure.
 
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baudolino said:
Check out the very nice leather Chinese bag bellows for the Technikardan (seller called myhoyeah or something like that on eBay...cost 160 Eur). I had the original textile bag bellows but it disintegrated and I was too frugal to fork out 600 Eur for a new one, for use with the 72XL. I found out that the Chinese bellows was nicer than the original and I can use it even with longer lenses (135/150 when not focusing too close), without needing to swap. So I keep it on all the time...no swapping of bellows and also easier to fold down, without the great care needed with the original harmonica bellows which tends to get mangled if one is not totally puristic about the folding procedure.
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot!! Will definitely check it out :)

The original Linhof is fine and I use the bag bellow uptil and including 150 with no problem - but the Arca Swiss leather bellows is so much nicer than the Linhof, especially the leather bellow for the 4x5 Misura could be used from 45mm to 360mm it was genius!

And thank you fit the effort in your previous post, so much solid information - and the advice of getting a camera with just what you need of moments is very good, and for architecture the Misura have what’s needed and no more imo. That’s what makes it so good!
 
I would try older Arca Swiss 8x10. All models: A, B, C are great. they are light, compact and very stable, not much worst then the modern F-line.
Ansel Adams used such Arca becouse it was light and much more stable than a wood camera.
You get one in good condition under 2k.
A new Arca is not really much better when it comes to 8x10, but much more expensive.
 
I started with an old Gibellini, but it was limited to 500mm bellows which was a bit too short for me. It was also a prototype and some things worked better than others. Then I got a Toyo 810Mii. I like it but for three things--it weigs a ton, especially for a field camera. Second the front standard's shift and swing are part of the same adjustment--loosen one clamp adjust both, tighten clamp. So its impossible to adjust one without moving the other. Third, its like a flatbed type camera so wider than a certain point and the bed gets in the frame, so you need to jump through hoops like dropping the bed and using rear tilt on both standards. That works but is annoying.

I'd love an Arca Swiss, but I ended up with a Canham JMC 810. Its much lighter than the Toyo, about the same weight as the Misura. It can go from 70mm to 850mm. It is not the most rigid 8x10, especially at 800mm, but it is rigid enough for my needs. I have a range of lenses from 120mm out to 490mm. Plus I have a 610mm Apo Nikkor, that I haven't shot yet. My favorite, most used lens is a late model gold dot 355mm / 14" Dagor.
 
Sneaky nice camera is the Kodak View Master but lens boards are expensive and rare. Adapters can be made by Sk Grimes.
 
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