Oops my bad, sorry for misreading your post.
+1 for tech cam magic
Plus I find them a lot more fun to shoot than the other systems out there, at least as far as landscape is concernedThe GetDPI Photography Forum
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Switching to Alpa
- Thread starter gmfotografie
- Start date
+1 for tech cam magic
Plus I find them a lot more fun to shoot than the other systems out there, at least as far as landscape is concerned
doccdiamond
Member
I use an Alpa Plus and both wide lenses - 32mm and 40mm. Whenever possible I prefer the 40mm because of less distortion. Very often for interior I end up with the 32mm because of the wider angle. Both lenses are highly recommended and excellent glas. The 90mm Rodie is a great addition for this setup. All three lenses are on a complete different level of quality!
I recommend at least one wooden handle for security reasons if you take the camera out of your box, or to move it to your tripod. More risky to handle the pure body with lens and Back. And they are very nice…
Regarding the back I prefer the CCD-backs but it is a matter of taste (and of course a Copal-Shutter).
I recommend at least one wooden handle for security reasons if you take the camera out of your box, or to move it to your tripod. More risky to handle the pure body with lens and Back. And they are very nice…
Regarding the back I prefer the CCD-backs but it is a matter of taste (and of course a Copal-Shutter).
JeffK
Well-known member
Peter, do you tend to use the ALPA 12 TC for more travel and personal work and pull out the PLUS for the professional Architectural work?
doccdiamond
Member
Jeff,
in fact I use the Alpa Plus for 99% of my medium format work. The TC is still like new. I bought it with the intention of handheld shooting during traveling and in reminiscence to a Hassy SWC but in practice this is not suitable (at least not with the low ISO CCD_Backs). And it is to slow for street work or you miss to many shots by improper focusing, movement/shaking etc.. Today it is basically a backup if anything happens to my Plus during a shooting.
Best
Peter
doccdiamond
Member
Regarding the mentioned P1 XT I must say that the Alpa's feel much more precise. I tried it but would not take it even if I would not have been already invested in Alpa. Best of both worlds would have been a joint development of ALPA and P1 with a similar integration.
It is still a pity that nobody took the chance to continue the Copal-production (or develop something similar) so we are now dependent of the X-Shutter or the last generation of Backs - both very expensive and exclusive solutions.
Just my thoughts,
Cheers
Peter
It is still a pity that nobody took the chance to continue the Copal-production (or develop something similar) so we are now dependent of the X-Shutter or the last generation of Backs - both very expensive and exclusive solutions.
Just my thoughts,
Cheers
Peter
adrianaleson
New member
Hi DaveMichael,
The 12+ is the most versatile Alpa, and you can just barely store it up/down in a bag (see pic below). I have the 12+, STC and TC. I am frequently switching between the 12+ and the STC. The STC can do almost as much in a more compact size, but the "almost" might be significant for you. From a look at your portfolio, you do some architecture. If you want to shift and rise/fall at the same time, the STC is out.
Another vote for the 32hr. I don't have it simply because of its size and weight, but it is the best of the bunch. I have the sk35xl, but I don't do much movement with that lens. As Graham mentioned you will probably want a short telephoto sooner than later. Another way to accomplish that is with the sk f/4.5 90mm. You can use that for a while until you build up the funds/justification for the 90hr-sw. In my opinion, its darn good out to about a 90mm image circle, and "good enough" out to 98mm. They are still available new without a copal 0 and frequently show up on the used market with a copal 0.
Regardless, don't forget the accessories; they can add up quickly with Alpa.
Alpa 12+, IQ4150, (5) lenses (sk35xl, sk60xl, sk90xl, Rodi 138f, Zeiss 250sa) and all accessories.
- Digital back adapter
- 17mm adapter, or 17mm tilt adapter
- A second 17mm adapter for longer lenses (later). You can double them up for 34mm. I carry (1) 17mm tilt and (1) 17mm so I can tilt with all my Short Barrel lenses.
- For the 12+, the stitching adapter; optional on the STC.
- Grips. These are not necessary but nice to have if you don't mind the added weight and space. I have one for my STC but none on the 12+. That's why I have that strange orange cord on the 12+ in the pic.
I just bought an Alpa 12 SWA from a friend but I'm missing the horizontal shift.
Can I get it with the 17 mm tilt/Swing adapter for a lens with short barrel?
I have doubts after reading on Alpa page "movement in every of all four directions (up/down/left/right)".
Maybe it means that the adapter has 4 positions in which you can tilt the lens.
dchew
Well-known member
You cannot gain horizontal shift with the 17ts adapter. Yes, the tilt/swing adapter tilts in all four positions, and it can tilt/swing the lens or the back. The tilt/swing adapter has no movements other than tilt or swing. All shift movements are built into the bodies. The SWA only shifts in one direction: Lens rise. You can flip the camera upside down to get lens fall, but that is somewhat inconvenient.
Alpa SWA Description
That description shows rise, fall (with adapter), but no shift L/R. That "with adapter" means with an adapter that attaches on top of the camera so you can mount it when flipped upside down.
I suppose you could mount it on a ballhead or on the cube tilted sideways and flipped around so the back of the camera was facing forward. Then the built-in movement would be horizontal shift of the back. Again, very impractical, especially if you want to stitch in order to blend two images together. Shifting the other way for the second image would require moving the camera around on the tripod. Kind of defeats the purpose of built-in camera movements. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it sounds like the camera you really want is the STC. It can do everything you need and in a smaller, lighter package.
Dave
dchew
Well-known member
Since the other thread topic was about Cambo, I moved my response to your Alpa question here.
Short barrel vs long barrel:
Long barrel lenses mount onto the camera without any additional adapters. The adapters are really just spacers like what we call "extension tubes" in 35mm camera land. Short barrel lenses need adapter(s) to sit the correct distance from the film/sensor plane. Here is an example of a long barrel mount vs short barrel mount; both are the 50mm lens.
Long barrel:
Short barrel (in this case, SB34):
See how the square "cone" on the short barrel is shorter? That is what short-barrel (SB) means. SB lenses come in three sizes depending on the lens: 17, 34 and 51. Those numbers refer to the distance in mm the lens mount has been "shortened" and tells you the size and/or number of adapters required to mount the lens. You can either get adapters for that specific size or stack them. I stack them to save space and weight. I carry the 17 and 34 adapters and use them for the 60xl (17mm), sk90 (34mm) and 138 (51mm = 17 + 34). If I did not have the 138, I would just carry two 17mm adapters and stack them for SB 34 lenses.
Initially, it might seem like LB lenses are preferred since you won't need any adapters. But the opposite is the case. You almost always want SB lenses for two reasons: First, the only way to tilt with Alpa is with the TS adapters, and you can only use TS adapters with SB lenses. So if you want to tilt, you need the SB mount. Second, the SB lenses are smaller and lighter. This is especially true with longer lenses like the 120, 138, 150 and 180.
Several years ago, Alpa's Achilles heal was this fact that you needed the adapter to tilt, and all the wide Schneider lenses did not have room to do that. With Alpa, you cannot tilt any of Schneider's lenses wider than 60mm. Today it is not as big a deal because all the lenses currently available have room to be SB mounts and can tilt. If you want to use legacy Schneider lenses, this is an important limitation.
As for the wide-end lens choice, you can probably do the Canon 24 and get some movement with the 44x33 back. I've never done that so others will have to chime in. The 40 is a good option and very popular, but two things to note: 1) it is really a 42mm lens, so make sure it is wide enough for you. 2) It still has some distortion compared to a Schneider lens. Here is a good map of distortion for all the lenses:
https://www.alpa.swiss/alpa-media-asset/alpa-visual-distortion-charts
You are correct about the color cast. That should be good in most situations. You may still need an LCC for larger movements. You might consider the Rodi 32mm. It is big and expensive, but with movements you might get away with just one lens. It also has distortion, but that can be fixed using the Alpa Lens Corrector plugin. I think it is also built into Capture One, but I might be wrong about that. I've never owned the 32.
Ciao,
Dave
Short barrel vs long barrel:
Long barrel lenses mount onto the camera without any additional adapters. The adapters are really just spacers like what we call "extension tubes" in 35mm camera land. Short barrel lenses need adapter(s) to sit the correct distance from the film/sensor plane. Here is an example of a long barrel mount vs short barrel mount; both are the 50mm lens.
Long barrel:
Short barrel (in this case, SB34):
See how the square "cone" on the short barrel is shorter? That is what short-barrel (SB) means. SB lenses come in three sizes depending on the lens: 17, 34 and 51. Those numbers refer to the distance in mm the lens mount has been "shortened" and tells you the size and/or number of adapters required to mount the lens. You can either get adapters for that specific size or stack them. I stack them to save space and weight. I carry the 17 and 34 adapters and use them for the 60xl (17mm), sk90 (34mm) and 138 (51mm = 17 + 34). If I did not have the 138, I would just carry two 17mm adapters and stack them for SB 34 lenses.
Initially, it might seem like LB lenses are preferred since you won't need any adapters. But the opposite is the case. You almost always want SB lenses for two reasons: First, the only way to tilt with Alpa is with the TS adapters, and you can only use TS adapters with SB lenses. So if you want to tilt, you need the SB mount. Second, the SB lenses are smaller and lighter. This is especially true with longer lenses like the 120, 138, 150 and 180.
Several years ago, Alpa's Achilles heal was this fact that you needed the adapter to tilt, and all the wide Schneider lenses did not have room to do that. With Alpa, you cannot tilt any of Schneider's lenses wider than 60mm. Today it is not as big a deal because all the lenses currently available have room to be SB mounts and can tilt. If you want to use legacy Schneider lenses, this is an important limitation.
As for the wide-end lens choice, you can probably do the Canon 24 and get some movement with the 44x33 back. I've never done that so others will have to chime in. The 40 is a good option and very popular, but two things to note: 1) it is really a 42mm lens, so make sure it is wide enough for you. 2) It still has some distortion compared to a Schneider lens. Here is a good map of distortion for all the lenses:
https://www.alpa.swiss/alpa-media-asset/alpa-visual-distortion-charts
You are correct about the color cast. That should be good in most situations. You may still need an LCC for larger movements. You might consider the Rodi 32mm. It is big and expensive, but with movements you might get away with just one lens. It also has distortion, but that can be fixed using the Alpa Lens Corrector plugin. I think it is also built into Capture One, but I might be wrong about that. I've never owned the 32.
Ciao,
Dave
Last edited:
adrianaleson
New member
Hi DaveSince the other thread topic was about Cambo, I moved my response to your Alpa question here.
Short barrel vs long barrel:
Long barrel lenses mount onto the camera without any additional adapters. The adapters are really just spacers like what we call "extension tubes" in 35mm camera land. Short barrel lenses need adapter(s) to sit the correct distance from the film/sensor plane. Here is an example of a long barrel mount vs short barrel mount; both are the 50mm lens.
Long barrel:
Short barrel (in this case, SB34):
See how the square "cone" on the short barrel is shorter? That is what short-barrel (SB) means. SB lenses come in three sizes depending on the lens: 17, 34 and 51. Those numbers refer to the distance in mm the lens mount has been "shortened" and tells you the size and/or number of adapters required to mount the lens. You can either get adapters for that specific size or stack them. I stack them to save space and weight. I carry the 17 and 34 adapters and use them for the 60xl (17mm), sk90 (34mm) and 138 (51mm = 17 + 34). If I did not have the 138, I would just carry two 17mm adapters and stack them for SB 34 lenses.
Initially, it might seem like LB lenses are preferred since you won't need any adapters. But the opposite is the case. You almost always want SB lenses for two reasons: First, the only way to tilt with Alpa is with the TS adapters, and you can only use TS adapters with SB lenses. So if you want to tilt, you need the SB mount. Second, the SB lenses are smaller and lighter. This is especially true with longer lenses like the 120, 138, 150 and 180.
Several years ago, Alpa's Achilles heal was this fact that you needed the adapter to tilt, and all the wide Schneider lenses did not have room to do that. With Alpa, you cannot tilt any of Schneider's lenses wider than 60mm. Today it is not as big a deal because all the lenses currently available have room to be SB mounts and can tilt. If you want to use legacy Schneider lenses, this is an important limitation.
As for the wide-end lens choice, you can probably do the Canon 24 and get some movement with the 44x33 back. I've never done that so others will have to chime in. The 40 is a good option and very popular, but two things to note: 1) it is really a 42mm lens, so make sure it is wide enough for you. 2) It still has some distortion compared to a Schneider lens. Here is a good map of distortion for all the lenses:
https://www.alpa.swiss/alpa-media-asset/alpa-visual-distortion-charts
You are correct about the color cast. That should be good in most situations. You may still need an LCC for larger movements. You might consider the Rodi 32mm. It is big and expensive, but with movements you might get away with just one lens. It also has distortion, but that can be fixed using the Alpa Lens Corrector plugin. I think it is also built into Capture One, but I might be wrong about that. I've never owned the 32.
Ciao,
Dave
I appreciate your advice.
I assumed that the extender did not allow shift but I wanted to remove the doubt since the photos of the adapter on the alpa page do not clarify much. Perhaps it worked in a similar way to the silvestri system, I have an extender with 15mm shift, but I was wrong.
I agree with you regarding the SWA body. It is not the ideal body since it only shift upwards. I have the piece and I can rotate all camera to shift down. Lateral shift is only achieved by turning the ball tripod. Perhaps later on it would be convenient to have a second body like the Max or Plus for a tripod and the SWA to take freehand on trips. At the moment for personal work on film it is enough but when I change my GFX system to a DB for professional work I may have to look at another body.
I understand that if I make the comparison with the Silvestri system, the SWA camera is the same as the T30 model that I had a few years ago. Both were meant to be shot on film, so you move the front part, the lens, up in big shift (30mm). The new models like the Bicam 3 or the Max are designed for digital, to stich photos with shorter movements (digital lenses have small circle) on the back. That way the perspective is not changed and stich photo are perfect. I understand that the SWA body is symmetrical and I can interchange the position of the lens and the back, that way the back moves, but the camera grips are in the opposite direction.
About the extenders, I appreciate your explanation. Rings 0, 1 and 2 of the silvestri system work exactly the same as they are both pancake cameras. But I had my doubts since Alpa places them in the part of the lens and Silvestri in the back part of the back. After reading the Alpa page, the long barrel system puts the back close to the body and generates vignetting. With the short barrel it allows you to place an extension on the back, moving the back away from the body and not generating shadows. That way the weight of the gear is more balanced.
About lenses, I only work with wide angle lenses up to normal, 50mm in FF. I only use shift, not tilt, so the long barrel is not a bad system to adapt old Schneider lenses with focus rings from other systems that are cheaper than Alpa lenses with short barrel. Maybe when I go digital and buy the HR-40 it will be better with short barrel+adapter but at the moment for film I think I can work with long barrel.
Again thank you very much for your time.
Greetings.
alistairsimmons
Well-known member
@gmfotografie Have a conversation with your local Phase One partner to find out what they could currently offer to upgrade you to an IQ3 100MP Trichromatic. There is a promotion running until June which will offer a generous discount to trade you up from an alternative camera system.
alistairsimmons
Well-known member
Of course. As this digital back was mentioned earlier, it is good for @gmfotografie to know there is an offer at the moment which will include manufacturer warranty/partner support.
John_McMaster
Active member
It is not currently showing on the Teamwork website....
john
john