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The great tripod & head thread!

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member


Sigh. I made high-speed (slow motion) videos to go with that waveform. And I WILL spare you those. Slowed down 50 times, it sounds like the hold of the Nostromo, full of spooky echoes. Noises A and B remain unidentified. But the leaf snaps shut at C. Then the aperture blades simply crawl. That entire 1/10 second from C to D is the aperture closing down to f/11. I can't tell exactly when the focal plane shutter opens, because there is a closed leaf shutter in the way! The leaf snaps open at E - it's faster than my frame rate, which it better be if you're able to shoot 1/800 second with it. At F, the end of the exposure, the leaf snaps closed. What's amazing is that the leaf snaps open again at H, making that last big noise. So at F or H, or possibly G, the focal plane shutter must have closed. After that, the aperture blades crawl open for the rest of that time slice, and the mirror comes down.

I suspect I've gone OT here. If I do more shutter analysis, it will be in a different thread.

Matt
 
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dchew

Well-known member
Hey Matt,
Egged on my @jng 's comment, I did a similar test with my tech camera/electronic shutter/aperture mount Rodenstock lens fired remotely from my iPhone:

aperturemount.jpg

:ROFLMAO:

Seriously, I personally think the work you've done is interesting and relevant to the topic. The relative impact of leaf vs FP vs secondary lens support is one example.

Dave
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Hey Matt,
Egged on my @jng 's comment, I did a similar test with my tech camera/electronic shutter/aperture mount Rodenstock lens fired remotely from my iPhone:

View attachment 188590

:ROFLMAO:

Seriously, I personally think the work you've done is interesting and relevant to the topic. The relative impact of leaf vs FP vs secondary lens support is one example.

Dave
Dave,

I'm going to respond seriously to what was no doubt meant as a humorous poke in the ribs. I LOVED using tech cams on photo workshops. I bought my own ... and never used it. It just didn't fit my shooting style at home. The Leica S did. I loved using it for walking around - seeking interesting light, geometry, and city life. I didn't use a tripod, didn't use anything longer than a 120, and used no ND filters for long exposure effects. Then I started using the S180 - the longest lens in the S system. It was difficult to focus, and magnified live view was jumpy, so it started whispering "tripod" at me. Well, I went monopod first, and started taking those high elevation pictures. I'm not doing those right now as I have a borrowed camera, and returning it after an 8 foot fall would be difficult to explain. But then I saw what could be done with a long lens with a tripod and, furthermore, that there was a lens perfectly adaptable to the S system (I tried the Contax 350/4, but it is huge and not very sharp, so returned it). Enter the HC 300. So I'm trying to see what I can do with it and what its strengths and weaknesses are. I will not be walking around with it hand held looking for random interesting photo ops!

Would I love a Phase XT system? You bet. @jng 's rig? Absolutely! Would I use it them as much as the S? Probably not.

Best,

Matt
 
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MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
You knew I wasn't done. I recorded Focal Plane shutter exposures. There are always two noises before and two after the actual shutter moving. The shutter itself takes a bit less than 1/100 second to open or close - that's the flash synch speed. So those other noises aren't the shutter moving, but are some other part of the mechanism. That leads me to believe that A, B, and C are the FP shutter preparing to open, and it finishes immediately after the leaf shutter closes at C. Similarly, it closes at F, the end of the exposure, and makes noises at G and H, which is when the leaf shutter opens again.
M
 
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Shashin

Well-known member
Now, combine the sound and vibration data and see how they correlate! (Remember, you opened this can of worms.)
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Now, combine the sound and vibration data and see how they correlate! (Remember, you opened this can of worms.)
A good suggestion, Will. And I can't resist a an opportunity to lecture (but you knew that....). So...

Here's the sound from a one-second leaf shutter exposure superimposed on the vibration data from a shot with the same parameters. The sound of the mirror lowering is off the end of the vibrations chart, but we really don't care about vibration by then.



This lets us peer inside the "room where it happens", and it explains the width of the leaf shutter disturbance, ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ. Right before t = 1 second, the giant vibration peak of finger push and mirror up. Two seconds later, the three bumps visible in rapid succession: t = 2.85, Leaf shutter closing and FP shutter opening, t = 2.95, aperture blades reaching f/11, and t = 3, the Leaf shutter opening. This tiny bit of complexity comprises letters A through E in the sound plot above! You can barely make out A and B leading up to the big noise C. Then we have one second of silence during the actual exposure. At t = 4, the Leaf shutter closes, FP closes, and, 1/10 second later, the Leaf opens. From t = 4.1 seconds on, we have aperture blades recovering and, at t = 4.25, the mirror lowering. F, G, and H lie between t = 4 and t = 4.1! The difference between this sound plot and the previous one is that, instead of being a 1/24 second exposure, this one is a full second.

I'm guessing that the bigger vibration peak at t = 4.1 is from the FP shutting and the Leaf closing and opening in a much shorter interval than at t = 2.8, where there was deliberate time for the system to settle down before the exposure.

Matt
 
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MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Wait, Will. I'm not done!
This is a zoom into that t = 2.8 to t = 3 region where the exposure starts. I could then overlay the annotated sound file.... and yes, I matched the time scales. :cool:



Matt
 
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MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Hi! Me again. Just some more observations with some other long lenses. While the HC 300/4.5 is a more modern lens and has a usable leaf shutter on the S, it's a dead end. No extension tube or teleconverter will work with it and the S and, having no manual aperture setting, it suddenly becomes harder to use than a perfectly manual lens. Enter the older Hasselblad V lenses. There is an S adapter with no electrical or moving mechanical connections. So what do our elder brethren provide? The 250/5.6 and 350/5.6 Superachromats and the APO teleconverter 1.4XE. With Dante as my Virgil (think about that...), I got my hands on both of those lenses and have had a few weeks with the 250 and a few days with the 350, and I can report a few things.

First, they are not the highest contrast kids on the block. Zeiss says that they don't provide the T* coatings as that would block some of the IR which the highly corrected CA would render in focus. The acuity (if I'm using that word correctly) suffers. Yet the detail present is lovely and takes sharpening VERY well, if that's what you want. I like the brick and stone in buildings to look the tiniest bit velvety - as if they would be soft to the touch.

But this is a tripod and head thread, so enough about the optics! The 250/5.6 SA is a much smaller and lighter lens than the 300/4.5 or 350/5.6. It's about 2 lbs. and the bigger ones are both 4 lbs. Not surprisingly, the 1/8-1/15 second issues don't show up with the 250 and DO show up with the 350. Using a lens support rail greatly ameliorates this - better than it did on the HC 300/4.5 - but it's there, and a ND filter set is handy to get you out of that range into the >1 second world, where there is no apparent vibration.

Matt
 
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jng

Well-known member
Hi! Me again. Just some more observations with some other long lenses. While the HC 300/4.5 is a more modern lens and has a usable leaf shutter on the S, it's a dead end. No extension tube or teleconverter will work with it and the S and, having no manual aperture setting, it suddenly becomes harder to use than a perfectly manual lens. Enter the older Hasselblad V lenses. There is an S adapter with no electrical or moving mechanical connections. So what do our elder brethren provide? The 250/5.6 and 350/5.6 Superachromats and the APO teleconverter 1.4XE. With Dante as my Virgil (think about that...), I got my hands on both of those lenses and have had a few weeks with the 250 and a few days with the 350, and I can report a few things.

First, they are not the highest contrast kids on the block. Zeiss says that they don't provide the T* coatings as that would block some of the IR which the highly corrected CA would render in focus. The acuity (if I'm using that word correctly) suffers. Yet the detail present is lovely and takes sharpening VERY well, if that's what you want. I like the brick and stone in buildings to look the tiniest bit velvety - as if they would be soft to the touch.

But this is a tripod and head thread, so enough about the optics! The 250/5.6 SA is a much smaller and lighter lens than the 300/4.5 or 350/5.6. It's about 2 lbs. and the bigger ones are both 4 lbs. Not surprisingly, the 1/8-1/15 second issues don't show up with the 250 and DO show up with the 350. Using a lens support rail greatly ameliorates this - better than it did on the HC 300/4.5 - but it's there, and a ND filter set is handy to get you out of that range into the >1 second world, where there is no apparent vibration.

Matt
Matt,

Surely you have a photo or two of the contraption to share!

John
 

sog1927

Member
There is an S adapter with no electrical or moving mechanical connections. So what do our elder brethren provide? The 250/5.6 and 350/5.6 Superachromats and the APO teleconverter 1.4XE. With Dante as my Virgil (think about that...), I got my hands on both of those lenses and have had a few weeks with the 250 and a few days with the 350, and I can report a few things.



Matt
What, no 500mm ApoTessar?????????
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
What, no 500mm ApoTessar?????????
Well, there is the 300/2.8 Superachromat. They run around $55,000 on eBay... And then there's this.

tv5200cat.jpg

See the Full Frame body on the far right?

I have to ask, your cat is OK, right...
Thank you for asking. Yes, Soup is fine. He just likes to sleep. Here he is a few minutes later with the 250/5.6 SA. This time 1.5 seconds.


Matt
 
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jng

Well-known member
I have to ask, your cat is OK, right...
Well, there is the 300/2.8 Superachromat. They run around $55,000 on eBay...



Thank you for asking. Yes, Soup is fine. He just likes to sleep. Here he is a few minutes later with the 250/5.6 SA. This time 1.5 seconds.


Matt
LOL. I've taken similar long exposures of my sleeping cats. The slight blur of their fur on the chest gives away the fact that they are still breathing (but just). Of course if you shot Soup wide open then maybe it's just bokeh. :ROFLMAO:

And fear not, the APO 1.4XE will bring you pretty close to 500 Apo-Tessar territory!

John
 

P. Chong

Well-known member
wow Matt…now that is a lens. Does it come with a truck?

Btw, I am really enjoying this thread. Thanks for sharing the tripod adventures. I feel I already know Soup. 😆


Well, there is the 300/2.8 Superachromat. They run around $55,000 on eBay... And then there's this.

View attachment 189200

See the Full Frame body on the far right?



Thank you for asking. Yes, Soup is fine. He just likes to sleep. Here he is a few minutes later with the 250/5.6 SA. This time 1.5 seconds.


Matt
 

Ed Hurst

Well-known member
Matt, while I haven't had time yet to fully digest all your wonderful ideas and contributions, I want to thank you for them. As a fellow owner of the massive FLM ballhead, I will try my best to understand all your thinking and feel confident that, when I do, I'll have a much more powerful relationship with my ball. (Puns on a postcard please)
 

Thunderhill

New member
Hi,
I've been lurking for a while now while slowly putting together my GFX 50S kit. Great thread btw. Still can't seem to decide with certainty on which Gitzo to buy.
I have the Arca Swiss P0 Monoball w/panning head.

questions:
1. Can I put the P0 Monoball onto a Arca Swiss Leveler 60 without any issues? https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...swiss_860103_l60_leveler_fliplock_tripod.html

2. A Gitzo: I'm wondering at what point is overkill for a GFX 50S if many tripods can support 40+ lbs of weight? (and I do want a centre column)
Would the Mountaineer series be more than enough or should I be considering the larger leg diameter Gitzo Systematic line?
(I shoot portraits (135mm is the longest lens in my bag) and also like to wander the city with a camera on a tripod, don't do hiking/landscape in all kinds of weather)

I now realize this is a (hopefully) buy once/cry once purchase,
so, thanks in advance.
Stephen
 

SylB

Well-known member
Hi,

I use a Hasselblad H system on Gitzo systematic : the most stable, efficient in almost all situations.
I use it on a Mountaineer too (354X) : very efficient too, but I would be more careful in case of (strong) wind, especially with central columns up.
I even use a Traveller GT1545 with this H system in case of need (portability and available space) : it can work with extra precautions.

So I would say that your GFX will work with a Mountaineer without any doubt (you will find the acceptable limits by using it).
 

FloatingLens

Well-known member
Hi! Me again. Just some more observations with some other long lenses. While the HC 300/4.5 is a more modern lens and has a usable leaf shutter on the S, it's a dead end. No extension tube or teleconverter will work with it and the S and, having no manual aperture setting, it suddenly becomes harder to use than a perfectly manual lens. Enter the older Hasselblad V lenses. There is an S adapter with no electrical or moving mechanical connections. So what do our elder brethren provide? The 250/5.6 and 350/5.6 Superachromats and the APO teleconverter 1.4XE. With Dante as my Virgil (think about that...), I got my hands on both of those lenses and have had a few weeks with the 250 and a few days with the 350, and I can report a few things.
Matt, is it possible to combine the APO extender 1.4XE with the 250 SA, too? I am asking because of the protruding teleconverter front element.
 
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