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Thoughts on schneider 43xl vs Rodenstock Hr 40 for Iq4 150.

Boinger

Member
As the title says opinions on the matter needed.

Does the distortion on the Hr40 matter that much for most people to be worthwhile to consider the schneider?

In my reading I read somewhere that the schneiders have less abberations. Is this true?
 

Pemihan

Well-known member
As the title says opinions on the matter needed.

Does the distortion on the Hr40 matter that much for most people to be worthwhile to consider the schneider?

In my reading I read somewhere that the schneiders have less abberations. Is this true?
The 40HR is my go to lens, I use it for the majority of my images. I don't notice any distortion but the again I almost exclusively shoot landscapes.
 

f8orbust

Member
Does the distortion on the Hr40 matter that much for most people to be worthwhile to consider the schneider?
Not really. But if you shoot architecture then the ~0% distortion of the S/K 43 is one less thing to have to fix in post (it's also got a much bigger IC, which is useful for architecture). If shooting on a P1 back then C1 can do an amazing job removing the distortion of the R/S (just like the tool Alpa have on their website). But occasionally, especially with images containing lots of vertical/horizontal parallel lines, I've seen it struggle ... and then it becomes an incredible PITA trying to remove any obvious mustache distortion.

In my reading I read somewhere that the schneiders have less abberations. Is this true?
These are both superb lenses and things like CA are well controlled (as you would expect at this price point). There are other issues - flare, for example - where the S/K has the edge simply because it's a far less complicated design with fewer surfaces for light to bounce around on.

Jim
 

dchew

Well-known member
I had both for a short time about 8 years ago. Other than the usual differences between Schneider’s and Rodenstocks I did not notice a difference in aberrations like coma and CA, but I never tested for that with a direct comparisons. Robert Sinclair (rsinclair) just posted an astro image using the 40hr in the Fun With MF thread. You might ask him about coma.

Dave
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Flip.

The 40HR I have does have classic retro focus distortion. Objects become flattened and elongated.

Not as bad as the 32HRW.

Shift the 40 to 15mm and issues gets worse.

43mm was distortion free larger IC. Great for panning.

Color cast will not be an issue with the IQ4 and you won’t need the CF. I don’t need it on the 35XL which is impressive.

Paul C
 

Steve Hendrix

Active member
Flip.

The 40HR I have does have classic retro focus distortion. Objects become flattened and elongated.

Not as bad as the 32HRW.

Shift the 40 to 15mm and issues gets worse.

43mm was distortion free larger IC. Great for panning.

Color cast will not be an issue with the IQ4 and you won’t need the CF. I don’t need it on the 35XL which is impressive.

Paul C

I agree for an IQ4 150 owner, a 43mm could be a compelling lens. It performs very well, the only real knock has been the color cast that creeps in sooner than one would like for 60mp/80mp/100mp digital backs, but as Paul notes, is absent with the IQ4.


Steve Hendrix/CI
 
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pinktank

New member
Another one for the 43xl here, it's very sharp and even across the field and you can easily do two shot stitches, if not four(matches about the 23mm if you go 15mm to each side and 20 to top).

If anybody else has the 43xl here with the 150, could they do me the immense favor of shooting an LCC reference shot (or a neutral wall or something) with the back shifted about 15-20mm and risen/fallen the same?

I suddenly started getting tiling issues with the image divided in to four quadrants with differing exposures and very obvious lines caused by the difference in between. I'm pretty sure I did not have this issue about a month ago but I want to check with others to make sure they don't suffer the same before contacting phase one.

Thanks!
 

Christopher

Active member
Same problem with the IQ150, 32rodi, 40rodi and 43xl. The tiling starts with minor shifts and is worse the wider the lens. I will have to do more tests, but for that I would like to have a blue sky and we don’t have that here at the moment.

Another one for the 43xl here, it's very sharp and even across the field and you can easily do two shot stitches, if not four(matches about the 23mm if you go 15mm to each side and 20 to top).

If anybody else has the 43xl here with the 150, could they do me the immense favor of shooting an LCC reference shot (or a neutral wall or something) with the back shifted about 15-20mm and risen/fallen the same?

I suddenly started getting tiling issues with the image divided in to four quadrants with differing exposures and very obvious lines caused by the difference in between. I'm pretty sure I did not have this issue about a month ago but I want to check with others to make sure they don't suffer the same before contacting phase one.

Thanks!
 

pinktank

New member
Same problem with the IQ150, 32rodi, 40rodi and 43xl. The tiling starts with minor shifts and is worse the wider the lens. I will have to do more tests, but for that I would like to have a blue sky and we don’t have that here at the moment.
Hello Christopher, Do you have a LCC plate? That is the easiest way to chsck, though an out of focus ceiling works as well. It shouldn't really be happening with the 40 and 32 rodis as they are retrofocal. In wondering if it's something else like a firmware update messing with the factory calibration of tiles somehow.

Back rotates 180 degrees in same position.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7b9n0g8jsejlyyb/BackRotated180-LCC.IIQ?dl=1
LCC with shifted back. 18mm to the left, 20mm rise
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fb8qtkax64n74pw/BackStraight-LCC.IIQ?dl=1
 

rsinclair

Member
Another one for the 43xl here, it's very sharp and even across the field and you can easily do two shot stitches, if not four(matches about the 23mm if you go 15mm to each side and 20 to top).

If anybody else has the 43xl here with the 150, could they do me the immense favor of shooting an LCC reference shot (or a neutral wall or something) with the back shifted about 15-20mm and risen/fallen the same?

I suddenly started getting tiling issues with the image divided in to four quadrants with differing exposures and very obvious lines caused by the difference in between. I'm pretty sure I did not have this issue about a month ago but I want to check with others to make sure they don't suffer the same before contacting phase one.

Thanks!
I'm shooting the Roden 40HR-W on Arca Rm3Di, Factum, and Universalis w/ the IQ4150. I've not seen the tiling issue when maxing out the shifts or under any circumstances, but certainly the IC vignetting is an issue beyond 10mm. I have been able to clean up the vignetting up to 10mm and even beyond, but that has depended upon the image content as it can be an issue for cleaning up if the content is complex vs a clear blue sky. I'm finding the "stock" Roden 40mm Lens Correction within C1 can handle cleaning it up well as long as I stay within 7.5, especially if I remember the shift movement... :-/

Here's a 0-shift image, noting the top was cropped out to remove some of the necessary sky (for composition) and a smidge cropped out at the bottom, also for composition.

Not sure this really helps answer your question or address your concern, but it does reflect what an 40/IQ4 combo returns. Near the center of the image in the full size print, one can see the feather in the fisherman's hat, distinct rocks at the top of the volcano, and crisp blades of grass alongside the rocks at my feet - even with 15-20 mph wind gusts and the ES at 1/15, ISO 50, f7.1.

Cheers,
Robert

P0001127 14.jpg
 

pinktank

New member
I'm shooting the Roden 40HR-W on Arca Rm3Di, Factum, and Universalis w/ the IQ4150. I've not seen the tiling issue when maxing out the shifts or under any circumstances, but certainly the IC vignetting is an issue beyond 10mm. I have been able to clean up the vignetting up to 10mm and even beyond, but that has depended upon the image content as it can be an issue for cleaning up if the content is complex vs a clear blue sky. I'm finding the "stock" Roden 40mm Lens Correction within C1 can handle cleaning it up well as long as I stay within 7.5, especially if I remember the shift movement... :-/

Here's a 0-shift image, noting the top was cropped out to remove some of the necessary sky (for composition) and a smidge cropped out at the bottom, also for composition.

Not sure this really helps answer your question or address your concern, but it does reflect what an 40/IQ4 combo returns. Near the center of the image in the full size print, one can see the feather in the fisherman's hat, distinct rocks at the top of the volcano, and crisp blades of grass alongside the rocks at my feet - even with 15-20 mph wind gusts and the ES at 1/15, ISO 50, f7.1.

Cheers,
Robert

View attachment 140100
Hello Robert, Thank you for sharing, it does help clear whether rodenstocks have any tiling in general. I was wondering if perhaps I and Christopher were running to some other issue that might crop up post-purchase or with certain units.

I have some suspicion that it might not be the typical tiling issue since he mentioned the Rodenstocks. The effect seems greater than the typical tiling line with clear exposure differences visible between the four quadrants. I wanted to see what he was running into with the Rodenstocks so I could make a stronger case for Phase One Support
 

Christopher

Active member
I was completely under the weather the past few days. The flue really got me. I will have to catch up on some work, but should be able to test more on Wednesday/Thursday.
 

Pemihan

Well-known member
I suddenly started getting tiling issues with the image divided in to four quadrants with differing exposures and very obvious lines caused by the difference in between. I'm pretty sure I did not have this issue about a month ago but I want to check with others to make sure they don't suffer the same before contacting phase one.
I thought tiling was a thing of the past with the CCD backs. But apparently it's back with the 150 :-(
Haven't seen or heard about it at all with the 100MP.
 

Boinger

Member
Another one for the 43xl here, it's very sharp and even across the field and you can easily do two shot stitches, if not four(matches about the 23mm if you go 15mm to each side and 20 to top).

If anybody else has the 43xl here with the 150, could they do me the immense favor of shooting an LCC reference shot (or a neutral wall or something) with the back shifted about 15-20mm and risen/fallen the same?

I suddenly started getting tiling issues with the image divided in to four quadrants with differing exposures and very obvious lines caused by the difference in between. I'm pretty sure I did not have this issue about a month ago but I want to check with others to make sure they don't suffer the same before contacting phase one.

Thanks!
Do you still need this done I have a 43mm where I can test this for you.
 

pinktank

New member
Do you still need this done I have a 43mm where I can test this for you.
Hello boinger, we seem to have established with two other sources that the tiling/quadrants are here to stay when working on the extremes of the lens. If you don't mind, I wouldn't mind a 15 shift 20mm rise example just for comparison in case it helps me understand the change between shoots. With a stable camera like the cambo with the shift detents, pre-made LCCs largely handle the issue and the rest can be retouched.
 

Boinger

Member
Hello boinger, we seem to have established with two other sources that the tiling/quadrants are here to stay when working on the extremes of the lens. If you don't mind, I wouldn't mind a 15 shift 20mm rise example just for comparison in case it helps me understand the change between shoots. With a stable camera like the cambo with the shift detents, pre-made LCCs largely handle the issue and the rest can be retouched.
Sure thing. Did you want a lcc plate shot? or did you want a actual picture?
 

Boinger

Member
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