Toyo goes out of business

[hypermanual]

Sakai Machine Tools, the company manufacturing Toyo brand view cameras, has recently ceased operations.

Sakai Machine Tool (makers of Toyo View cameras) to end operations Jan 31st, 2025.

As seen on Twitter, with translation: Truly sad to hear. Can't believe they lasted this long, honestly.

www.photrio.com

Very sad to see another legend go. Looks like only Arca Swiss and Linhof are left in the game of large format monorail cameras.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

That's terribly sad. Especially for film holders ...

In my view, it would be good if people sometimes also bought new products from Linhof, Arca and Alpa instead of always lurking for an eBay deal - not only do you get a new product, but you support tiny niche businesses which are dependent on ongoing sales.

I ordered a Linhof MT3000 three years ago and it took 3/4 of a year to get it. If you call Arca, they might tell you an Rm3Di takes also a few months if they don't have in stock as they're done in batches and machines are needed for other products.

Alpa still chugging along with quick availability of most parts, but film backs, ground glass, viewfinder, etc. are not produced anymore due to rarified demand.

Important to keep them alive.

Wonder that Toyo's demise means for film holders.

 

[Shashin]

Many of these camera companies are family businesses like Wista and Pannon Camera (the maker of the Widelux) I visited the "headquarters" of both those companies. Pannon had a beautiful garden and was working from a traditional Japanese home. Wista was on the second floor of a building not far from there. When the owners retire, so does the business.

 

[rdeloe]

Cripes, I didn't realize the company was still alive. When I had a Toyo VX23D I searched high and low for a service manual. Had I known they were still going I would have reached out to see if they had one.

 

[anyone]

It's a pity! I really much enjoy my Toyo 45A and will continue to do so for the forthcoming years. Toyo always stood for me for very sturdy, reliable, functioning cameras.

But, as Rob pointed out, I had no idea they were still around. The whole business seemed to be Japan-focused.

It's lovely to see the two dedicated persons behind the company!

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Toyo field cameras are some of the best besides Linhof and especially their 8x10 is an amazing foldable if you don't want an overpriced and gaudy Gibellini.

Their film holders are to this day the gold standard.

After copal, this is a significant loss for the LF world. All my film holders are Toyo.

 

[hypermanual]

In my view, it would be good if people sometimes also bought new products from Linhof, Arca and Alpa instead of always lurking for an eBay deal - not only do you get a new product, but you support tiny niche businesses which are dependent on ongoing sales.

It's possible that they fell victim to their own success. Their cameras are sturdy and with just a bit of maintenance, will keep working much longer than myself.

I wonder what the situation looks like inside other view camera companies. In the 2024 retrospective newsletter from Linhofstudio, they say that "demand for analog cameras continues to grow". That said, Linhof has that kind of a "luxury item" badge that Toyo unfortunately didn't have, despite being top tier manufacturer in the world. Also Linhof managed to take a piece of the small (but high margin) digital view camera market for themselves, so they don't depend on demand for analog solutions only. Toyo tried their best with VX23D (and SMT Pro, though I think that one was sold in Japan only), but they didn't win even on their home turf with those (digital-dedicated Horseman view cameras are still available).

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Linhof especially and Toyo fell victim, agree. The analogue market is growing, but from a lower base than in the 2000s or even 90s; so the backlog of existing cameras on eBay is still greater than the need even if it is increases from say the lower pre-pandemic levels.

I think the only way for these companies is to innovate. Ie bringing out an MK X version, but then again the problem is innovation becomes more difficult the more mature a system is. So while you can innovate, the cost to do so becomes higher.

I could for example imagine a new kind of Alpa FPS which can control all mirrorless lenses with cabling etc, but development cost would be very high.

Same with the MT and Toyo cameras. You can innovate with materials, ie carbon fiber, or design and then improve certain elements, but it requires often an integrated internal value chain to do so - and willingness, ofc.

In any case the Toyo foldables will as a result rise in value, they are absolutely amazing.

 

[rmueller]

Really sad but guess the writing was on the wall and others will follow.

When I picked up my MT3000 from the Linhof factory in Munich five years ago, I came to realize that Linhof earns money from real estate. Linhof itself is only using a small part of the big factory it once used. The rest of the space is leased to other companies and since this is in the heart of Munich, they can survive and run their camera business.

I was lucky to have picked up 10 brand new film holders from Toyo three years ago from Negative Supply, not not sure they still have some in stock.
Agree with @Paul Spinnler , the Toyo film holders are the best.

Ralf.

 

[baudolino]

I bought an Arca Swiss F-Field Metric Orbix new about a year and a half ago. Delivery took about 10 weeks from order (from the Arca shop in Germany). As for film holders, the Chamonix plastic version are as good if not better, as the Toyo holders, in my view. I also managed to find some new old stock Linhof holders; of course they are great, too. It must be hard for traditional manufacturers to make a living from LF cameras, with all the second hand supply on eBay and cheaper brands like Intrepid. My guess is that Linhof now make more money from servicing and parts rather than sales of new cameras. On the other hand, enthusiast brands like Chamonix, Gibellini or Stenopeika seem to be doing OK and even bringing new cameras to market, so all hope is not lost.

 

[MartinN]

Hmm, Horseman seems branded under Kenko. Some new innovations or old classics reborn ?

 

[Paul Spinnler]

I bought an Arca Swiss F-Field Metric Orbix new about a year and a half ago. Delivery took about 10 weeks from order (from the Arca shop in Germany). As for film holders, the Chamonix plastic version are as good if not better, as the Toyo holders, in my view. I also managed to find some new old stock Linhof holders; of course they are great, too. It must be hard for traditional manufacturers to make a living from LF cameras, with all the second hand supply on eBay and cheaper brands like Intrepid. My guess is that Linhof now make more money from servicing and parts rather than sales of new cameras. On the other hand, enthusiast brands like Chamonix, Gibellini or Stenopeika seem to be doing OK and even bringing new cameras to market, so all hope is not lost.

My understanding is that Gibellini mostly sells into Asia

 

[baudolino]

I am not sure what his market is. But like with many high end equipment nowadays, Asia presumably is an important market. I am in the process of buying an 8x10 camera from him right now and I am in Europe. I wrote to him yesterday (Sunday) afternoon on WhatsApp; got a reply in less than a minute. Exchanged messages till about midnight, and again from 6am today. So I guess he is also keen to sell outside of Asia.

 

[vieri]

I bought an Arca Swiss F-Field Metric Orbix new about a year and a half ago. Delivery took about 10 weeks from order (from the Arca shop in Germany). As for film holders, the Chamonix plastic version are as good if not better, as the Toyo holders, in my view. I also managed to find some new old stock Linhof holders; of course they are great, too. It must be hard for traditional manufacturers to make a living from LF cameras, with all the second hand supply on eBay and cheaper brands like Intrepid. My guess is that Linhof now make more money from servicing and parts rather than sales of new cameras. On the other hand, enthusiast brands like Chamonix, Gibellini or Stenopeika seem to be doing OK and even bringing new cameras to market, so all hope is not lost.

I got an Arca-Swiss F-line custom made to my specs (basically a mix between a F-Field metric and classic, plus orbix on the front standard), and delivery took just over a month. I am using Chamonix 4x5" holders, which I love (the safety system is, in my view, much better than any other holder), and the film seems to be perfectly flat.

Chamonix, Intrepid, Gibellini, Stenpeika (and possibly others I am surely forgetting) plus of course Arca-Swiss, Linhof & Sinar are still producing LF cameras and accessories, which is a lot of players if the market were a dramatically shrinking one - very sad to hear about Toyo, but I guess, and I hope, that there might still be more buyers than we think, out there (?).

Best regards,

Vieri