Using an IQ4? What's your system?

[JeffK]

For those of you fortunate to have an IQ4150 reg or achromatic. What computer system are you running?

eg:

M1 MacMini 16gb/2tb + whatever else is important to your system?

I'll start... (don't have an IQ4 yet. Currently working with an IQ260achromatic, but working on an upgrade)
M1 MacMini 16gb/2tb – Capture One v22.*
Ext USB3 12 TB HDD for archiving
i3 MacMini 8gb/256gb – As print server to Epson 7800 converted to Piezography style printing.

*Also have Affinity Photo for retouching, but more is being done in Capture One these days. The M1 made enough of a performance difference that I could stay in C1 for pretty much anything - even panorama stitching now. Was using Photoshop CC till beginning of this year. Didn't renew CC.

 

[docholliday]

This handles my H5/6, IQ250, IQ3100 files and very large panos without an issue. I don't plan on IQ4 as I'm not a fan of P1 bodies and they don't make them in H-mount.

For studio capture, I just use a few Xeon workstations with 128GB of RAM and a Quadro. I do more than just edit imaging on my box as I also develop software and other things. But my older, "main" box is:

- 2x Intel Xeon E5-2667 v4
- 512GB ECC RAM
- 2x nVidia Quadro P5200
- Primary boot drive cluster: 4x 2TB NvME in RAID 10
- Primary data operations: 8x 1.2TB 15K SAS in RAID 60+1 with 16GB cache
- Auxillary drives: Multiple 1 or 2TB NvME (980 Pro or SK P31) drives for swap, cache, temp along with 8TB/10TB slow SATA drives for random junk storage
- iSCSI: 4x 10GB from board bonded to Extreme Networks switch
- "NAS" (iSCSI cluster): 16x 16TB on Powervault for warm data via 40GB fabric
- 6x Dell U2413 displays

Stitching large amount of images, like 36 shots in 3 or 4 rows of H6D-100 or IQ3100 files for pano is one of the worst tasks for any platform (2GB+ files). Much worse than any IQ4 file. Capture One will randomly just hang and die as it's .net architecture doesn't garbage collect well with large chunks of RAM being used rapidly. For "normal" editing tasks, PS CC, C1, and Phocus act without any lag or wait. The "tiny" files from IQ backs of any size handle effortlessly in C1... the key with C1 is when working on anything large, is to exit and re-launch after any heavy process so that the OS can force release RAM. The .net LOH GC is horrible at being predictable.

This is one stitch that actually completed without C1 committing suicide, uses RAM like it's going out of style. The big difference with C1 vs PS is that PS utilizes disk caching during heavy processes whereas C1 tries to do it all in RAM:


Yes, that's a floppy drive. I also work on some older CNC machines that still use floppy as well as assembly work on "special" files. (the lower 3.5" bays have since been removed (no more SATA in chassis) and replaced with an NvME backplane cage plus a larger 8x 2.5" SAS 12G 3-bay cage since this was taken):

 

[anwarp]

My workstation is a 32 core threadripper pro with 256GB memory and a WX9100 graphics card running windows 11 enterprise. C1 catalogue resides on a 2TB NVME, but the images are on a separate FreeBSD based server with 72TB storage The 2 machines are linked with 40Gb Ethernet, so image access is almost as good as local high speed storage.

I used a MacPro from 2010 until about a year ago. Keeping the images on a dedicated server made the transition from Mac to pc quite easy. However C1 on windows is pretty rough. There is no real full screen image viewer for example. And until the recent 22.3 version, the user interface was unreadable on an 8k monitor.

 

[docholliday]

... However C1 on windows is pretty rough. There is no real full screen image viewer for example. And until the recent 22.3 version, the user interface was unreadable on an 8k monitor.

I use an extra viewer window (F10), then put it up on monitor 6, maximized. It works just as well for a constant full-screen view.

 

[JeffK]

My workstation is a 32 core threadripper pro with 256GB memory and a WX9100 graphics card running windows 11 enterprise. C1 catalogue resides on a 2TB NVME, but the images are on a separate FreeBSD based server with 72TB storage The 2 machines are linked with 40Gb Ethernet, so image access is almost as good as local high speed storage.

I used a MacPro from 2010 until about a year ago. Keeping the images on a dedicated server made the transition from Mac to pc quite easy. However C1 on windows is pretty rough. There is no real full screen image viewer for example. And until the recent 22.3 version, the user interface was unreadable on an 8k monitor.

Thanks for the post. You switched from Mac to PC. Had you hit a performance wall with your MacPro? Was that a trashcan or the older G5 styles?

 

[Bill Caulfeild-Browne]

On the road I use a MacBook Pro M1 Max,10 cores, 64 GB memory and 4TB storage, 16 inch Retina XDR display. Runs C! very well.

My "mainframe" is a Mac Pro is a little older but somewhat similar specs. However, the MacBook processes IQ4/150 files noticeably faster, especially when merging panoramas or focus stacking.

 

[anwarp]

I use an extra viewer window (F10), then put it up on monitor 6, maximized. It works just as well for a constant full-screen view.

I use a separate viewer window on a second monitor. But the so called full screen still leaves the window decorations. If you know how I can disable that, I’d be delighted!
On a Mac, and on plenty of other software on windows, full screen means no window decorations!

 

[anwarp]

Thanks for the post. You switched from Mac to PC. Had you hit a performance wall with your MacPro? Was that a trashcan or the older G5 styles?

The Mac was the older cheese grater. I skipped the trash can since it was not much better than a laptop in terms of expandability. E.g. no PCIe slots.
I was able to use that old machine with the IQ4 because of the high spec PC graphics card I had installed in it., along with 64GB of RAM. It was a dual Xeon model, and very fast in its day. The PCIe slots allowed me to use an NVME drive, USB3, 10Gb Ethernet and a modern pc graphics card.
My biggest issue with that machine was exporting 50 + images to helicon focus for focus stacking. Export speed and memory size made the process very slow.

When it came to speccing out a new cheese grater, the cost of a sufficiently powerful machine was twice that of a similar PC. And I could switch from 10Gb Ethernet to 40Gb Ethernet to get full use of the speed of the file system on the external storage server.

I do most of my non photography work within a virtual machine running Linux, so in that respect, the switch from Mac to pc made no difference, except for the slightly different keyboard layout!

Anwar

 

[stngoldberg]

I am very interested in this thread.
Using an IQ4 and sending 30 captures through C1 and helicon focus occupies a minimum of 20 minutes using my Apple trash can which is pretty much fully loaded with speed features.
Researching the trash can replacement on the Apple website I need help determining which add on features will maximize speed for stacking multiple images.
while the end result of capturing and stacking 150 megapixel images is rewarding; waiting for the computer to process the steps to achieve a final image is painful. I haven’t had any luck talking to the Apple specialists on a chat or phone call, as they don’t have any experience with high megapixel photography.
stanley

 

[Greg Haag]

I am with Stanley on this, watching this thread closely as I am about to order a new Mac desktop. Jeff and others on a Mac would you order the same system today or would you build something different? Mac mini or Mac Studio?

 

[Bill Caulfeild-Browne]

I would get any Mac with the M1Max chip. Super fast with Helicon Focus - 100 images took less than 2 minutes, full res IQ4 files.

 

[JeffK]

I am with Stanley on this, watching this thread closely as I am about to order a new Mac desktop. Jeff and others on a Mac would you order the same system today or would you build something different? Mac mini or Mac Studio?

At the time, the Mac mini was the top of the line M1. Now I would probably look at the Mac Studio with 64gb ram and the MAX processor. The Ultra seems like it was built as a stop gap (and is optimized for video and 3D work) till the new Mac Pro and M2 MAX was built. The base MAX with lots of ram would be the best bang for the buck. For HD space, the 1TB is enough for keeping a session live on the internal drive for performance while editing. The cost for HDD's are super low for 8-12tb drives.

 

[jng]

I would get any Mac with the M1Max chip. Super fast with Helicon Focus - 100 images took less than 2 minutes, full res IQ4 files.

Thanks, Bill. This is good to know about Helicon. I wonder to what extent RAM factors into the speed of stacking in Helicon or blending in PS, vs any differences in the various M1 processors. I guess another way of framing my question is which tasks are more RAM-intensive?

I find my 1st generation 13" M1 MBP w/16 Gb RAM makes short work of my IQ4 150 files in C1 and PS. But it does get bogged down in Helicon or when blending in PS. When I have a big stack to work on, I just go off and make myself a cup of coffee (and sometimes a snack - I recently did a 100-image focus stack that took over 20 minutes to process!). The newest releases of Topaz Denoise and Sharpen also run super-fast on the M1 chip; what used to require >15 minutes now takes less than a minute to process.

Since this is all an avocation for me and I'm satisfied working at a leisurely pace for the low volume of images I work on, I've decided to stick with my 1st generation M1 MBP for now. The hassle of migrating to a new computer is just not worth it to me. Yet.

John

 

[stngoldberg]

Thank you guys.
question for JEFFKK….what options if any would you include with your order for the Mac studio.would you include more memory…what helps speed?
stanley

 

[JeffK]

Thank you guys.
question for JEFFKK….what options if any would you include with your order for the Mac studio.would you include more memory…what helps speed?
stanley

Base model and up the ram to 64gb and hard drive to 1tb.

 

[anwarp]

With the new M based macs, you should order as much memory as you might need over the life of the product. I believe the memory cannot be increased later.

 

[weldonbrewster]

I got a Mac Studio Ultra with 128GB Ram, 20 Core CPU with 64 Core GPU and 4TB internal for some video work I'm doing. Not sure C1 is optimized for all those cores but it screams thru the IQ4150 files.

 

[JeffK]

With the new M based macs, you should order as much memory as you might need over the life of the product. I believe the memory cannot be increased later.

Yes, very important to note when buying a new M1, M2 Mac now - the ram can't be upgraded later, so buy the most you can at time of purchase. Hard drive you should think about. 1gb is sort of the affordable sweet spot. 2gb and up you pay a premium. However, the speed is fast. But with Thunderbolt 4 you can buy external 2TB NVMe drives for less per TB.

 

[JeffK]

I got a Mac Studio Ultra with 128GB Ram, 20 Core CPU with 64 Core GPU and 4TB internal for some video work I'm doing. Not sure C1 is optimized for all those cores but it screams thru the IQ4150 files.

C1 was recompiled for Apple Silicon - M1, but if it was actually optimized for performance? I'd have to defer to more knowledgable folks. It was definitely faster when they released the "For M1" version.

 

[baudolino]

This is my (probably excessive) config for processing IQ4 150 files:

MacPro 2019 3.5GHz 8-core Xeon W, RAM 96GB, Graphics AMD Radeon Pro Vega II 32 GB, internal SSD 8TB
Pegasus R4i internal RAID 5 array (24TB) and G-Speed Shuttle XL 48TB external RAID array for backups
LaCie Bolt3 SSD 2TB for quick transfers of C1 session folders from notebook used in the studio for tethering

No issues with stability, responsiveness etc. Even when files end up larger than 2GB with layers in PS.

As of today, M1Max may be a faster (or equally fast) proposition, at a significantly lower price point.