Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
What's your point? How does this relate to the IQ4?
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WTB: Phase One IQ4 150 + 40 HR + 90 HR-SW + 138 HR-SW
- Thread starter step56
- Start date
That there is no intrinsic market value despite IQ4-150 still being the "best" as to technical quality.
Boils down to demand vs supply.
Demand may be waning due to ever more competitive offerings from Fujifilm (GFX 100 II) and Hasselblad (X2D 100C, CFV-100c (to be released).
Postscriptum
Meant demand at the $18K price point may .... . Of course as the price point goes down demand may increase.
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DJI has a reputation of being notoriously slow in getting products out of the door.
I was at first not sure whether I should add my two cents.
In the New Yorker article, “How America’s Most Cherished Photographer Learned to See”, published earlier this year, Stephen Shore states, "a digital camera, even a phone, can be used with the same degree of attention as an eight-by-ten." I agree with Stephen Shore.
Yes, say, a 11x14” camera requires more technical and physical attention than a smartphone but this does not necessarily have the corollary that also more attention is given to artistic aspects. I would argue it's rather the other way round: The technical and physical effort required in carrying and setting up a 11x14” makes it harder to give the same attention to as to the artistic aspects than if only a smartphone is used. (Making the assumption that the envisioned image or artistic expression can be taken by both the 11x14” and smartphone.)
However, one difference is that one may be more selective in making an exposure in view of the expense and limited number of sheet film that can be brought along.
(The 11x14” kit I was considering weights just a bit more than my full Linhof Techno kit (includes a IQ3-100). The effort required in carrying and setting up I thought to be roughly the same.)
vieri
Well-known member
Two points caught my interest in your post, which I marked in bold above.
1. can is the key word here. Can, of course; but will it? In my experience of online browsing, the overabundance of cellphone images we see shared online where any degree of attention has been used are extremely low, in percentage, versus the attention I see displayed in the few 8x10 images that get shared online.
2. I can see your point re: it being the other way round, but if the first assumption is true (cellphone & 8x10 can be used with the same degree of attention), then it must also be true that they can be both used to results of the same artistic quality, regardless of which one is harder to setup. You argue that there is artistic freedom originating in not having to think about the technical aspect inherent in a 8x10, and I can definitely see that. On the other hand, the fact that when using a 8x10 one may be more selective in making an exposure (which to me would be better expressed by saying that "one is more selective"), would then result in one thinking much more before taking a shot, which in turn may result in artistically better images (and if often does). If nothing else, it would result in taking less images the quality of which one is not absolutely convinced, and therefore one deems not worth taking.
Transferring all the above to a fully digital environment, I would argue that using a tech camera with a digital back (or camera body) attached might result in one losing spontaneity and "artistic freedom" versus using of a cellphone, but it might also result in more deliberate selecting what and how to photograph it.
Both may have their merit, and both may result in "better" images when applied to genres of photography where the one is more conducive than the other to a better result (e.g., I wouldn't shoot the olympics with an 8x10, even though someone does and with great results, and I wouldn't shoot fine art long exposures with an iPhone, even though one can somehow get away with it).
While is ultimately the photographer that counts, and while one can find exceptions to pretty much any rule, I'd argue that:
1. There are both tools better suited for a given photo job vs tools better suited for a different photo job, and
2. There are tools better suited for a photographer vs another photographer since personal preferences, and the joy deriving from using a camera vs another, in my opinion, are also very important in the ability to create great work.
All that not taking into consideration the image quality aspect of things, which is currently definitely in favour of cameras. Ansel famously said that there is nothing worse than a sharp image of a fuzzy concept, and I fully agree with that. On the other hand, if one manages to create an image worth creating, being able to do so with the best technical quality possible might serve a purpose (print, future-proofness, and so on).
Best regards,
Vieri
vieri
Well-known member
Yep - but, I think it's worth to never miss an opportunity for a great conversation, wherever it happens!
Best,
Vieri
Vieri,
I basically agree with what you said. We could squabble about subtle points but much depends on context and situation.
For example, I make a conscious effort to have and to use a tripod whenever necessary and practical even if I am only using smartphone. Not having to concentrate to hold the smartphone in place makes it easier for me to reconsider and/or fine-tune any composition selected, and to think more careful about what, inter alia, would be the best exposure and focus point.
If asked how to improve one's photography I would recommend getting and using a decent sized tripod and think/consider various technical and artistic aspects before pressing the shutter. (Assuming situation allowing a contemplative approach.)
MN
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... but using a tripod permits fine adjustments of camera position, more precise location of the borders, and better control of visual relationships. It also opens up all the visual possibilities of time exposures, whether simply for greater depth of field via small apertures, or for the sometimes surreal effects of long exposures with moving subjects.
Ansel Adams, The Camera, p.123
But sometimes a smartphone is the best tool for "fine art long exposures"! For example, if there is salt water spray.
Yeah, conversation should be coddled no matter where it appears. I understand the sentiment of wanting threads that are more discoverable due to being titled appropriately, and this is the oddest thread to start from. But take it as it goes.
When you’re in the business of statistically larger and more expensive equipment that is sometimes attached to esoteric knowledge and generational wisdom, it makes sense that discussion would be gear-forward. And what better place than the buy and sell forum, where dreams are made.
When you’re in the business of statistically larger and more expensive equipment that is sometimes attached to esoteric knowledge and generational wisdom, it makes sense that discussion would be gear-forward. And what better place than the buy and sell forum, where dreams are made.
Maxx9photo
Active member
This WTB post has became a different route from the initial query, interesting enough due to lack of Phase One replacement of IQ4 makes the market of pre owned is based on supply and demand not based on continuation of the system anymore.
Why I say that, normally once a new model is announced and once it becomes available, the previous model price is automatically dropped.
I’ve tried to like the system but it’s not inline of what I do in reality. I like a practically easy system grab and go.
The Phase One itself is an amazing system! But it has its own limitations, for me number one is weight! XF is a No No for me. XT is more acceptable on weight but manual focus is something that I wish it has AF as I’ve been spoiled with AF.
If you are a professional and make $ from photography, this is a no brainer a very good option! Why I don’t say best? It’s very subjective.
My bottom point of view is used market Price of IQ4 will hold steady until a replacement is on the horizon.
Why I say that, normally once a new model is announced and once it becomes available, the previous model price is automatically dropped.
I’ve tried to like the system but it’s not inline of what I do in reality. I like a practically easy system grab and go.
The Phase One itself is an amazing system! But it has its own limitations, for me number one is weight! XF is a No No for me. XT is more acceptable on weight but manual focus is something that I wish it has AF as I’ve been spoiled with AF.
If you are a professional and make $ from photography, this is a no brainer a very good option! Why I don’t say best? It’s very subjective.
My bottom point of view is used market Price of IQ4 will hold steady until a replacement is on the horizon.
As the old joke goes, the two best days in a boat owner's life are the day they buy a boat and the day they sell it. Certainly, applies somewhat also to camera gear.
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
Yes I agree it will stay steady for now as in itself it is still a unique proposition. There is just something about SK / rodie stitched tech cam images and the view camera style workflow.
By the time P1 comes around in 24/25 we will hopefully see a re-newed tech gap which entices new customers. For example higher DR, 200 megapixels, faster SoC and I/O could really by enticing ...
By the time P1 comes around in 24/25 we will hopefully see a re-newed tech gap which entices new customers. For example higher DR, 200 megapixels, faster SoC and I/O could really by enticing ...
The only better feeling than getting the shot you set out for is selling some equipment to finance different equipment that better suits your workflow. And the latter is easier, for me at least, than the former.
As the old joke goes, the two best days in a boat owner's life are the day they buy a boat and the day they sell it. Certainly, applies somewhat also to camera gear.
As it has been commented before, it's unfortunate that P1 does not publish a roadmap somewhat similar to Fujifilm's lens roadmap, https://tinyurl.com/3ctacdjx
Very interesting to see what the CFV-100c will bring to the table and what impact the newly introduced Fujinon tilt shift lenses will have.
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vieri
Well-known member
Agreed, I never work (landscape & architecture) without a tripod, and while some people might find it limiting, for me on the contrary it's extremely liberating.
Best regards,
Vieri