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X1D Firmware 1.17.2: Resizeable AF points AND Electronic Shutter!

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Ming Thein has commented on his site ... looks like the E shutter will work silently with
non XCD lenses ...

He has tested a number of Nikon mount lenses and has alluded to a potential commercial
adapter for Nikon to X1D appearing 'soon'.

Looks like the Otus 85 is the keeper out of the group.

And so an adapter for X1D to a tech cam should be possible.

Good news.

Bob
 

satijntje

New member
Ming Thein has commented on his site ... looks like the E shutter will work silently with
non XCD lenses ...

He has tested a number of Nikon mount lenses and has alluded to a potential commercial
adapter for Nikon to X1D appearing 'soon'.

Looks like the Otus 85 is the keeper out of the group.

And so an adapter for X1D to a tech cam should be possible.

Good news.

Bob

Indeed, I can confirm this.
The shutter operates in a completely silent mode when a 120mm HC lens is used, even in normal A mode, so not Mq!
John
 

CAMBOUSA

Member
And so an adapter for X1D to a tech cam should be possible.

Bob
Both tcdeveau and Steve from Capture Integration have independently reached out to me regarding an official Cambo solution.

While I cannot comment officially on anything right now, I assure you all that I have passed along your excitement to the R&D team and am waiting patiently for a possible solution.

IF/WHEN anything comes from it, you guys will be the first to know.
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
Ming Thein has commented on his site ... looks like the E shutter will work silently with
non XCD lenses ...

He has tested a number of Nikon mount lenses and has alluded to a potential commercial
adapter for Nikon to X1D appearing 'soon'.

Looks like the Otus 85 is the keeper out of the group.

And so an adapter for X1D to a tech cam should be possible.

Good news.

Bob
I asked him about the adapter on Facebook and he said the one he used was a one-off prototype, but that he thought it'd be anytime soon for 3rd party adapters
-Todd
 

Wayne Fox

Workshop Member
Glad to see this on the Hasselblad as it makes this camera more interesting to me now, if it just had a tilting screen, but next gen may have that.

P1 only offers ES on the IQ3100, and sells the IQ100 without it and wifi (surprising). IMO the ES is a huge advantage for MF period. Especially the P1 and XF, since the XF still has a huge mirror to contend with. The vibration reduction settings never helped much for my work. but the ES makes telephoto work a dream, but you are tied to a tripod.

Phase never added it to the 50MP family of P1 backs, but it's obvious that it could be done, since Hasselblad and Fuji both now have ES and they are using the same basic chip (different filter arrays) as P1.

Overall not surprised I guess as that tends to be the track record for P1, but I am sure they have a good reason.

Paul Caldwell
I thought the GFX/X1D used a more recent version of the 50mp sensor. Not sure where I heard this, so I could be totally wrong, but this might be an issue with ES.
 

tjv

Active member
We could ask the same question of Hasselblad with regards to the 50c chip in the H6d-50c. It'd be great to see ES implimented in it, too.

I thought the GFX/X1D used a more recent version of the 50mp sensor. Not sure where I heard this, so I could be totally wrong, but this might be an issue with ES.
 

jng

Well-known member
My two immediate questions for HB are (1) does using ES result in decreased bit depth of files (asked earlier in this thread) and (2) will Hasselblad be coming out with their own V series lens adapter? The latter won't help them with lens sales but there are a lot of old V series lenses floating around!

John
 

jduncan

Member
Just updated. Works like a charm...The X1D system is progressing as expected.
Hasselblad continues to improve the X platform.
It's clear that the sensor is limiting them. I hope they continue to believe in the system and do as best as they can until the next generation sensor arrives.
I get why Hasselblad decided to go with the crop sensor for the X, but at the same time, I will love to see mirrorless with the big sensor (Maybe P1 will be first).
When the 120mm arrives it will be a much more competitive system. 300ms is a very long time for the readout, it's 0.3 seconds. It's basically a landscape tool, but the sensor they have is the sensor they have.
Best regards,
 

jng

Well-known member
300ms is a very long time for the readout, it's 0.3 seconds. It's basically a landscape tool, but the sensor they have is the sensor they have.
Best regards,
Right, using the ES basically limits you to landscape/still life applications, locked down on a tripod. But I think the 300 ms readout time compares favorably with the readout time of the IQ3100 ES (can anyone provide this figure?), which people seem to be quite happy about.

John
 

hcubell

Active member
Right, using the ES basically limits you to landscape/still life applications, locked down on a tripod. But I think the 300 ms readout time compares favorably with the readout time of the IQ3100 ES (can anyone provide this figure?), which people seem to be quite happy about.

John
Yes, the scan time with the Phase XF is even longer, and yet I remember asking about the effectiveness of the ES with the Phase XF and being told by Paul C. that it worked well with landscapes. However, I m really pleased with the XCD lenses so I am not sure I will be tempted to mount 3rd party lenses on the X1D. Of course, others who use Canon or Nikon tilt/shift lenses will be very tempted.
 

BJNY

Member
My two immediate questions for HB are (1) does using ES result in decreased bit depth of files (asked earlier in this thread) and (2) will Hasselblad be coming out with their own V series lens adapter? The latter won't help them with lens sales but there are a lot of old V series lenses floating around!

John
I was told "E-shutter will be 14 bit."
 

jng

Well-known member
For me there's the extra benefit of being able to use some of my V lenses that cover focal lengths outside the range of the X1D's native lens lineup. For example, I have a very sweet 250 Superachromat that's very challenging to nail focus with. The possibility of using it on a compact MF camera with decent live view just bumped up my interest in the X1D.

John
 

abed

New member
is the file a smaller bit depth or compromised in any way using the electronic shutter?
i’m wondering if this is now a possible combo actus pairing?
I just checked with Raw Digger ES raw picts are indeed 14 bits and not less (64,000 levels of R, G and B).
 

chrismuc

Member
readout time X1D electronic shutter is 300 ms
readout time GFX electronic shutter is 250 ms
readout time GFX mechanical shutter is 4.5 ms

I use the electronic shutter at my GFX only in order to achieve very short shutter speeds (1/8000 and 1/16000) if at full sun light and open aperture (for example GF 110f2 at f2) and basic ISO, the picture would be overexposed. Normally I avoid using the electronic shutter because I saw drawbacks in many kind of images:

- by hand with slight movement of hand distorts the image much more than with mechanical shutter
- by hand photographing a moving child often results in a distorted image of the child
- even on tripod on non-sturdy ground can lead to distorted image
- artificial LED light which is not DC driven but high frequency chopped will lead to stripes in the image

So IMO the electronic shutter is a nice add-on but does not replace the benefits of a mechanical shutter for usage with lenses w/o leaf shutter.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Just posted this over on LuLa, but for me the ES is a huge asset and I guess I use it 95% of the time in my work. In Yosemite I don't remember ever taking the XF off ES. I just don't see any major issues with movement and rolling shutter with the ES, unless there is considerable wind motion. The huge benefits I get with longer glass can't be understated. I have only worked with my tech camera 1 time with it basically just figuring it out, but again loved the ability to have 1/3 and 1/2 shutter speeds and much more accurate shutter speed than the copal shutters allow. I realize everyone will have a different opinion, so best thing to do is try it. Does require a good tripod and most times I will use a remote release on the XF.

The issue of rolling shutter on the ES is over stated. IMO.

The ES on the IQ3100 is even longer as I recall, I used almost all the time. You will not see issues with movements in landscape images, unless there is a 20 mph or stronger wind blowing. It works fine also on the GFX. There are also issues with flash, as can be expected.

Yes, if you take a picture of a person moving, or a car, etc, the rolling shutter will show it's effect. But it's nothing as bad as many folks make out.

In over 2K (many more taken, just not proofed) frames with the 3100 all with ES enabled, I have only found maybe 10 frames that were effected enough to not use.

The upsides are well worth it, as it makes the XF and IQ back very stable now and use of telephoto lenses on tripod is much more reliable. Even with vibration reduction mode on, the XF IMO is plagued by mirror shock and shutter shock with any lenses longer than 100mm. The ES totally eliminates all of this.

You really have to try it and see, as the results will speak for themselves.

I have not seen the ES on the Hasselblad as far as images, but have used it on the GFX and X-T2 from Fuji and the IQ3100 and all have no issues for my landscape shots, (unless there is wind and a lot of it).

Paul Caldwell
 

abed

New member
Just posted this over on LuLa, but for me the ES is a huge asset and I guess I use it 95% of the time in my work. In Yosemite I don't remember ever taking the XF off ES. I just don't see any major issues with movement and rolling shutter with the ES, unless there is considerable wind motion. The huge benefits I get with longer glass can't be understated. I have only worked with my tech camera 1 time with it basically just figuring it out, but again loved the ability to have 1/3 and 1/2 shutter speeds and much more accurate shutter speed than the copal shutters allow. I realize everyone will have a different opinion, so best thing to do is try it. Does require a good tripod and most times I will use a remote release on the XF.

The issue of rolling shutter on the ES is over stated. IMO.

The ES on the IQ3100 is even longer as I recall, I used almost all the time. You will not see issues with movements in landscape images, unless there is a 20 mph or stronger wind blowing. It works fine also on the GFX. There are also issues with flash, as can be expected.

Yes, if you take a picture of a person moving, or a car, etc, the rolling shutter will show it's effect. But it's nothing as bad as many folks make out.

In over 2K (many more taken, just not proofed) frames with the 3100 all with ES enabled, I have only found maybe 10 frames that were effected enough to not use.

The upsides are well worth it, as it makes the XF and IQ back very stable now and use of telephoto lenses on tripod is much more reliable. Even with vibration reduction mode on, the XF IMO is plagued by mirror shock and shutter shock with any lenses longer than 100mm. The ES totally eliminates all of this.

You really have to try it and see, as the results will speak for themselves.

I have not seen the ES on the Hasselblad as far as images, but have used it on the GFX and X-T2 from Fuji and the IQ3100 and all have no issues for my landscape shots, (unless there is wind and a lot of it).

Paul Caldwell
With limited testing using the X1D, I fully concurr with this.
Rolling shutter effects will be clearly noticible if a large portion of the image moves so that a 300ms delay will take place between one part of the image say at the top, with respect to another part that is at the bottom.
I just tested pictures of a tree with foliage moving under the effect of wind, no sign of rolling shutter can be detected.
This will sureley not be the case for a car moving or a person running if theuy fill most of the frame
 

masud

Member
I am finding that the electronic shutter, while much quieter than the mechanical shutter, is not completely silent (like it is in the Sony A7rii). I am testing with the XCD 30mm. Anyone else have this observation? Is that normal?
 
I am finding that the electronic shutter, while much quieter than the mechanical shutter, is not completely silent (like it is in the Sony A7rii). I am testing with the XCD 30mm. Anyone else have this observation? Is that normal?
Yes it is normal with all native lenses. Only with adapted lenses it will be totally silent.
 
D

Deleted member 7792

Guest
I am finding that the electronic shutter, while much quieter than the mechanical shutter, is not completely silent (like it is in the Sony A7rii). I am testing with the XCD 30mm. Anyone else have this observation? Is that normal?
Yes it is normal with all native lenses. Only with adapted lenses it will be totally silent.
The electronic shutter itself is silent, by definition. It's electronic, not mechanical. The sound that you're hearing is the aperture closing and reopening after exposure. You can test this by using Mq mode. In that mode, with the aperture set to shooting aperture, the camera is silent. No shutter sound. Period. That is true for both native lenses and for HC and HCD lenses using the X-H adapter. With after-market adapters made by other companies (aka "dumb adapters") where the aperture is set using the aperture ring on the lens, the camera will be silent when using the electronic shutter mode.

Joe
 
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