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How are you adapting these lenses to a 907x?
While I can't speak for the XCD21, I do have both the 23HR and GF23. The only comparison I've done so far is an image of my living room using a GFX100s and a CFV II 50c. Both lenses performed very similarly in that situation. I'm planning on photographing a building exterior with both set ups as soon as I get a chance. I'll post it in this thread once I do.just out of curiosity, wouldnt the rodenstock 23mm be much sharper than the GF23 or XCD21? i mean much much sharper?
I look forward to seeing your comparison. I won't be surprised if your images show that the sharpness difference is minimal, and that the 23HR is not necessarily any sharper.While I can't speak for the XCD21, I do have both the 23HR and GF23. The only comparison I've done so far is an image of my living room using a GFX100s and a CFV II 50c. Both lenses performed very similarly in that situation. I'm planning on photographing a building exterior with both set ups as soon as I get a chance. I'll post it in this thread once I do.
Why do you expect the Rodenstock 23 lens to be "much much sharper" than the XCD 21mm? I've done a decent amount of shooting with the XCD21mm on the 907x and it is a satisfyingly extremely sharp lens in everything I've seen out of it, presuming I set the focus properly.just out of curiosity, wouldnt the rodenstock 23mm be much sharper than the GF23 or XCD21? i mean much much sharper?
Don't get me wrong. I think correcting aberrations that CAN be corrected in post is a fantastic idea. And some of the µ43 lenses are jewels. I was just pointing out that the designer of a shift lens - well, not that it can't be corrected in post, but the shift parameters would have to be known to the camera quite precisely - has a harder job.This may be true, however I haven't seen that the lens correction added to the XCD 21mm actually changes its output by all that much if anything.
It reminds me of the Pana/Leica Macro-Elmarit-DG 45mm f/2.8 ASPH designed for Micro-FourThirds, in a way: Many people dissed the lens as "needing the lens corrections to produce a decent image" but when I took the lens parameters shipped into the DNG files apart, it was obvious that there were actually NO corrections being performed as all the parameters were set to 0.
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Based on my copies of these lenses and this test, the sharpness difference is minimal and the 23HR is not necessarily any sharper.I won't be surprised if your images show that the sharpness difference is minimal, and that the 23HR is not necessarily any sharper.
Yes, I saw that too. When focusing on the center of the frame with the 23HR the edges are not sharp–they almost look jittery.The "edge" frame is overall stronger than the centre frame in the Rodenstock pair. The GF seems to be about the same in the edge/centre comparison.
The Alpa plugin did a pretty good job of cleaning that up, but yeah it does seem to have a bit of mustache distortion. It would be interesting to see what the GF23 looks like coming straight out of the camera.The Rodenstock lens seems to have moustache distortion. That was surprising. The GF does not appear to have that form of distortion (or it's well-corrected in camera).
This is where I was struggling with the comparison. The GF is clearly sharper across the whole frame, but it is difficult to tell how much of that is the sensor size. I'm wondering how well the 23HR holds up on a 100mp sensor. I've read on the forum that it struggles with the IQ4 150.If my main requirement was maximum resolving power, I'd choose the GF 23. I compared the "edge" Rodenstock to the "edge" GF. The GF is clearly sharper across the whole frame. I can read the larger lines of text on the sign on the doors in the GF picture, but not in the HR. Of course the GF file has a lot more pixels! So I down sampled the GF file it to the resolution of the Rodenstock file and checked again. The GF frame still looks a bit sharper overall to my eye, but the difference is not as obvious as at full resolution.
The Rodenstock clearly wins on this point! Although, I was expecting to see more issues when tilting the camera up at the building and fixing in post. The end result is really very similar. For me, the shift on the 23HR maxes out at 10mm before becoming quite ugly. I tried another shot with the GF23 where I got closer to the building and tilted the camera 10°. It corrected nicely as well. Although I'm not sure I would go much further than that.Of course the Rodenstock can shift, where the GF cannot.
IMHO this is the main reason to go for a tech cam with Rodenstock lenses over the XCD/GF lenses, although the 23 Rodie is more limited movement-wise than some of the others.
- Of course the Rodenstock can shift, where the GF cannot.
Traditionally I have not been a fan of "fix it in post" either. Getting the shot in camera is optimal. Working with Tech cams is a lot of fun and I really enjoy the WRS and CFV II 50c, but if you can get equal/better results by fixing in post with the GFX 100s then it's worth considering.I am not a big fan of the attitude to fix it in post but I have also shot a ton with 4x5 cameras and I loved my fuji 680. which really makes me appreciate the XCD 21 and all possible adjustments in Phocus. I am still itching to put the CFV II 50 on a tech camera but probably more to play with tilt.
If I have the feeling that I might run out of image area with severe adjustments there is still the option to stitch a few frames as well.
If I had to shoot high end architecture for huge print every day, I would probably look at the XT.
just out of curiosity, wouldnt the rodenstock 23mm be much sharper than the GF23 or XCD21? i mean much much sharper?
I think we need to take sensor size & pixel size into consideration when doing such a comparison, as well as pixel count. Until we'll be able to test them both on the same, larger sensor, rather than a matter of absolute sharpness it's mostly a matter of "is what you see with your system sharp enough for you". Which, incidentally, is what counts in the endWhy do you expect the Rodenstock 23 lens to be "much much sharper" than the XCD 21mm? I've done a decent amount of shooting with the XCD21mm on the 907x and it is a satisfyingly extremely sharp lens in everything I've seen out of it, presuming I set the focus properly.
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You are correct Vieri, in that an apples-to-apples comparison is always best. However, that's not always possible. In this case, I normalized the resolution and compared. There are issues with that method too, but it's a reasonable way to compare across systems like this I think.I think we need to take sensor size & pixel size into consideration when doing such a comparison, as well as pixel count. Until we'll be able to test them both on the same, larger sensor, rather than a matter of absolute sharpness it's mostly a matter of "is what you see with your system sharp enough for you". Which, incidentally, is what counts in the end
Best regards,
Vieri