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Panasonic S1R

Stuart Richardson

Active member
Leica makes a S to L adapter for use of S lenses on a Leica Sl . (so its L mount ) .
Yes, I am aware of the adapter, but there has been some question in the S community as to whether it will work for all L mount cameras, or only the ones that Leica approves. Apparently it requires firmware updates in order to work properly, and it is not clear if Panasonic and Sigma will also support it. I would like it to be the case, but I do not think it is quite so certain as it seems.
 

Knorp

Well-known member
They compare the weight of GFX-50S without EVF, battery and card (740g) vs S1R with EVF, battery and card (1016g).
The more useful comparison would be GFX-S: 920g vs S1R: 1020g (EVF, battery, card, according to data on BH site).
You're right. The comparison goes wrong indeed irt weight and EVF, but still it's a beefy camera. Though nothing wrong with that !
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Personally I’m still absorbing information on these cameras but they look like my personal wishlist of the camera I’ve been wanting Sony to make (sans PDAF) for a couple of years now. I’m working on obtaining an evaluation copy of the camera once they’re available for myself but I haven’t made any final determination on whether I’d switch to these cameras or not.

I’m pretty much in “wait and see” mode still and still shooting my same kit for the last 3-5 years now. I’m at a place where I’m not invested in generation 3 or later Sony bodies and my lenses are just my “constant essentials” for now.
 
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k-hawinkler

Well-known member
Personally I’m still absorbing information on these cameras but hey look like my personal wishlist of the camera I’ve been wanting Sony to make (sans PDAF) for a couple of years now. I’m working on obtaining an evaluation copy of the camera once they’re available for myself but I haven’t made any final determination on whether I’d switch to these cameras or not.

I’m pretty much in “wait and see” mode still and still shooting my same kit for the last 3-5 years now. I’m at a place where I’m not invested in generation 3 or later Sony bodies and my lenses are just my “constant essentials” for now.
Thanks Tre. Good to see you posting. :thumbs:
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
The S1R and the 50mm seem pretty impressive. As for the comparison to the Fuji medium format, there are more differences than simlarities (hi-res mode, native 1.4 lenses, different ergonomics, speed etc.). One is not necessarilly better than the other, but they are very different.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Too early for me to make any judgement because I will be comparing the S1R against what the Leica SL2 will be when announced - except to say that the S1R is a fantastic option now for owners of L mount Leica glass.

47 megapixels all of a sudden releases the resolving capabilities of the L glass from the constraints of 24MP sensor in terms of image size and this is fantastic news for me - and my strategy of buying into Fuji mini MF is well on track with the coming 100MP Fuji as a natural second system at twice the resolution and offering MF perspective.

After many years of frustration with putting up with essentially 'hacked' systems combining digital backs with tech cameras and dodgy over prices tech lenses from Rodenstock and Schneider and ridiculous pricing from Hasselblad and Phase One and Leaf and Sinar- we are entering into a 'clean air' phase of equipment choice - at much more palatable price points.
 

AlexLF

Well-known member
Also, I hear from the reviews that 50/1.4 is on par with Zeiss Otus. Well, we'll see but this is what it sounds like!
 
Too early for me to make any judgement because I will be comparing the S1R against what the Leica SL2 will be when announced - except to say that the S1R is a fantastic option now for owners of L mount Leica glass.
There has been some speculation that the SL2 would be smaller than the SL, but with the new Panasonic cameras being larger, maybe the speculation will change. With the new Olympus entry being as large as a full frame, maybe the tide has turned against compact cameras. With lenses too. Are photographers hands getting larger as well?
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Too early for me to make any judgement because I will be comparing the S1R against what the Leica SL2 will be when announced - except to say that the S1R is a fantastic option now for owners of L mount Leica glass.

47 megapixels all of a sudden releases the resolving capabilities of the L glass from the constraints of 24MP sensor in terms of image size and this is fantastic news for me - and my strategy of buying into Fuji mini MF is well on track with the coming 100MP Fuji as a natural second system at twice the resolution and offering MF perspective.

After many years of frustration with putting up with essentially 'hacked' systems combining digital backs with tech cameras and dodgy over prices tech lenses from Rodenstock and Schneider and ridiculous pricing from Hasselblad and Phase One and Leaf and Sinar- we are entering into a 'clean air' phase of equipment choice - at much more palatable price points.
I almost would bet that the Leica SL2 will be a Panasonic S1R in just a different housing - if at all - but od course with the Leica price tag. And yes it will support Leica DNG etc ;)

I think that this was all planned and a smart move by Leica, so they spare resources by developing their own FF mirrorless flagship model from the scratch - actually it makes a lot of sense not only for Leica, but also for the final product.

I would also almost bet that we will se a second resolution model (24MP) from Leica based on the S1

Just my 5c :cool:
 

PeterA

Well-known member
I almost would bet that the Leica SL2 will be a Panasonic S1R in just a different housing - if at all - but od course with the Leica price tag. And yes it will support Leica DNG etc ;)

I think that this was all planned and a smart move by Leica, so they spare resources by developing their own FF mirrorless flagship model from the scratch - actually it makes a lot of sense not only for Leica, but also for the final product.

I would also almost bet that we will se a second resolution model (24MP) from Leica based on the S1

Just my 5c :cool:
We will see how much 'overlap' there will be and I agree there is likely (perhaps) some - but maybe not as much as you might think at first glance...

I think the body design of a camera and its operating system is very important consideration - eg I wanted to like Sony - but the bodies are just too small for me. ( you could say in fact I'm disappointed with Sony for not making a body I can actually use comfortably) which btw is also the reason I have always avoided M4/3rds bodies and systems - purely ergonomics nothing to do with real world IQ.
I would love Leica to shove the electronics into an R9 type body ( PERFECTION ) or at the least an S style body with more natural to hand curvature and that alone would be important and useful enough for me to prefer the Leica.
Similarly there are other considerations which I think you might see that makes the SL2 'different' - the most important one for many Leica shooters is compatibility with M lenses - which would require microlens coverage of the chip as in SL now...
Also Leica has developed ( like Hasselblad with XID) a very minimalistic approach to buttons and menus - very different to typical Japanese GUI - again a major difference.
Then there is the actual engineering of colour/lens corrections and other technical considerations which produce different outcomes for different cameras - even if they share the same capture chip ( eg XID/Pentax/Fuji/Hasselblad and Phase One all share the same Sony 50MP chip and all produce different outcomes)...
I don't think Leica is as interested in video aspects of cameras as Panasonic - even though the SL has amazing capability from 4 years ago....I doubt Leica will bother with a flippy screen ( I hope not anyway as I hate them as a stills photographer) they always look silly and flimsy and like toys.

Finally - will be interesting to see if Leica bother with a 24MP version really - the SL is 24 megapixel and is still a fantastic camera - I wont be selling it or trading it for just another 24MP Leica camera - no point - the major drawcard is the 47MP so the SL Leica lenses can start to use their resolving capability - right now these lenses are not being used optimally or anywhere near it.

if Leica continued to 'dumb down' the SL in order to somehow protect the S system ( which in my opinion is a dead end) then I and many others would just exit Leica SL systems - I think the company understand this - I mean 20+K for an S3 @64megapixels - is not a value proposition for anyone except those with an extensive inventory of S lenses - cant see any 'new' customers for the S system tbh. Leica have goofed with this - big time.

Pete
 

bensonga

Well-known member
Also, I hear from the reviews that 50/1.4 is on par with Zeiss Otus. Well, we'll see but this is what it sounds like!
At $2300, it had better be VERY good. I don't know of any other 50-60mm f1.4 lens priced this high (besides the Zeiss Otus and Leica SL lenses). I suppose Panasonic has priced it as a less expensive alternative to the Leica 50/1.4 Summilux-SL lens (approx $4,000). Once Sigma releases a L-mount version of their 50/1.4 ART lens, I'm betting this will put a real damper on the Panasonic 50/1.4 S Pro sales. Significant rebates on the Panasonic lens are likely once that happens.

Gary
 

SrMphoto

Well-known member
I almost would bet that the Leica SL2 will be a Panasonic S1R in just a different housing - if at all - but od course with the Leica price tag. And yes it will support Leica DNG etc ;)

I think that this was all planned and a smart move by Leica, so they spare resources by developing their own FF mirrorless flagship model from the scratch - actually it makes a lot of sense not only for Leica, but also for the final product.

I would also almost bet that we will se a second resolution model (24MP) from Leica based on the S1

Just my 5c :cool:
My assumptions:
- Leica SL2 must support M-lenses as good as Leica SL does (i.e., have a more expensive, specialized sensor).
- Panasonic S1/S1R does not care about M-lenses.

If my assumptions are correct than Leica SL2 cannot be a Panasonic in a different housing.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
At $2300, it had better be VERY good. I don't know of any other 50-60mm f1.4 lens priced this high (besides the Zeiss Otus and Leica SL lenses). I suppose Panasonic has priced it as a less expensive alternative to the Leica 50/1.4 Summilux-SL lens (approx $4,000). Once Sigma releases a L-mount version of their 50/1.4 ART lens, I'm betting this will put a real damper on the Panasonic 50/1.4 S Pro sales. Significant rebates on the Panasonic lens are likely once that happens.

Gary
Um, M lenses? Leica Summilux-M 50mm f/1.4 ASPH - $4595 (black chrome), $3995 (black), $4195 (silver) at B&H at present.

Just sayin' ... There are others that are far more expensive: the Leica APO-Summicron-M 50mm f/2 ($7995) or Noctilux-M 50mm f/0.95 ($11,595) ..!

They are Leica ... :D

G
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
At $2300, it had better be VERY good. I don't know of any other 50-60mm f1.4 lens priced this high (besides the Zeiss Otus and Leica SL lenses). I suppose Panasonic has priced it as a less expensive alternative to the Leica 50/1.4 Summilux-SL lens (approx $4,000). Once Sigma releases a L-mount version of their 50/1.4 ART lens, I'm betting this will put a real damper on the Panasonic 50/1.4 S Pro sales. Significant rebates on the Panasonic lens are likely once that happens.

Gary
My experience with Panasonic lenses indicate that it may be worth the price. The Sigma will be less than half the price of course, and actually smaller and lighter, in spite of being an SLR lens with a tube welded on. Still, if I pay 3-4,000 for the camera, I would probably go for that 50mm. It's the real thing :cool:
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
At $2300, it had better be VERY good. I don't know of any other 50-60mm f1.4 lens priced this high (besides the Zeiss Otus and Leica SL lenses). I suppose Panasonic has priced it as a less expensive alternative to the Leica 50/1.4 Summilux-SL lens (approx $4,000). Once Sigma releases a L-mount version of their 50/1.4 ART lens, I'm betting this will put a real damper on the Panasonic 50/1.4 S Pro sales. Significant rebates on the Panasonic lens are likely once that happens.

Gary
As I wrote in the other thread, I believe the most important note about this lens is that it is designed for both photo AND video usage. The Sigma MAY be cheaper (assuming they stick with the same optical formula and methods in how they converted them to E mount) but for people that intend on dual-use lenses this may still be the better option and is one quiet advantage that Panasonic and Sony have enjoyed over other mirrorless makers so far across the native lineup. For instance, there has been a big push on the Fuji side of things to redo/update many of the older noisy lenses so that they be used more effectively for video usage like the newer f/2 primes and "Red Badge" zooms now that Fuji X is being taken a lot more seriously for hybrid video/photo use.

From the JPEG shots I'm seen, the Lumix S Pro 50/1.4 seems to be a real winner. It has good color, smooth but neutral bokeh, and dare I say some "Leica Summilux-M 50" magic. Whether it's "worth" $2300 is subjective. For people looking at the SL 50/1.4 or Zeiss Otus 55/1.4 it may be a bargain. For people looking at the Canon RF 50/1.2 it may be a "push." For people looking at amazing lenses like the Sony Zeiss 50/1.4 or value for speed in the Canon EF 50/1.4 it may be considered "overpriced" but if people are willing to pay for it then is it really?

Time will tell and I halfway expect to see rebates/sales within 6 months of release for a price drop/ price normalization of the Lumix S camera bodies as we are seeing with the Sony FE, Nikon Z, and Fuji X cameras now that sales are slowing after the initial hype wore off. Where I think the S1R may have some trouble is in that the S1 is arguably more capable for more people and a permanent A9 price drop to say $3500 will likely drive more than a few people that rely on amazing autofocus towards Sony. It's also is not uncommon to see people buying A7RIII's in the $2500-2800 range without much bargaining though I feel the S1 is probably priced appropriately. I always expected it to be in the $1800-2500 range but I expected the S1R in the $2500-3500 range... and to top off at $4000 with a kit lens whatever the case. It's a little above that number and that's why I think there will be a market-induced "correction" within 6 months of release once the hardcore Panasonic lovers get the cameras in hand.
 

SrMphoto

Well-known member
My experience with Panasonic lenses indicate that it may be worth the price. The Sigma will be less than half the price of course, and actually smaller and lighter, in spite of being an SLR lens with a tube welded on. Still, if I pay 3-4,000 for the camera, I would probably go for that 50mm. It's the real thing :cool:
Panasonic's answer to on-chip PDAF is DFD, which is based on detailed lens knowledge. In the m43 world, only Panasonic's lenses are able to focus with DFD. If they maintain that strategy, Panasonic's L-mount lenses will potentially focus better on S1/S1R cameras than Sigma's and Leica's lenses.
 

bensonga

Well-known member
Um, M lenses? Leica Summilux-M 50mm f/1.4 ASPH - $4595 (black chrome), $3995 (black), $4195 (silver) at B&H at present.

Just sayin' ... There are others that are far more expensive: the Leica APO-Summicron-M 50mm f/2 ($7995) or Noctilux-M 50mm f/0.95 ($11,595) ..!

They are Leica ... :D

G
Oh Godfrey....

How could I have forgotten about the Leica M lenses! Duh. :facesmack:

I can only guess it is because cost wise, new Leica M lenses are mostly in a league of their own. Even so, clearly a warning sign that perhaps my own Leica M kit is feeling neglected with all my attention on these new cameras & lenses lately.

Thanks for reminding me that while the Panasonic lens is far from being a bargain, the price could have been much worse/higher.

Gary
 

AlexLF

Well-known member
I've just looked again closely at S1R 24-105 sample images and the lens performs pretty good at f/4! As I see it. Looks like it's a good travel lens. And the one for a start)
 
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