Panasonic S1R

[ptomsu]

Panasonic's answer to on-chip PDAF is DFD, which is based on detailed lens knowledge. In the m43 world, only Panasonic's lenses are able to focus with DFD. If they maintain that strategy, Panasonic's L-mount lenses will potentially focus better on S1/S1R cameras than Sigma's and Leica's lenses.

I think that will be what happens - unfortunately DFD will be reserved for Panasonic lenses.

Which again is the same game that we had for years now in the m43 world with Panasonic and Leica - two issues come to my mind immediately - DFD and aperture ring of some PanaLeica lenses only works on Panasonic bodies.

Why did we believe that would change :banghead:

 

[faberryman]

I think that will be what happens - unfortunately DFD will be reserved for Panasonic lenses.

Leica and Sigma will be CDAF only? Kind of diminishes the advantages of the L-mount alliance.

 

[iiiNelson]

Leica and Sigma will be CDAF only? Kind of diminishes the advantages of the L-mount alliance.

I don't know that we know that but I'd assume that Panasonic/TowerJazz is at least making the sensors for the Panasonic and Leica cameras.

 

[iiiNelson]

I think that will be what happens - unfortunately DFD will be reserved for Panasonic lenses.

Which again is the same game that we had for years now in the m43 world with Panasonic and Leica - two issues come to my mind immediately - DFD and aperture ring of some PanaLeica lenses only works on Panasonic bodies.

Why did we believe that would change :banghead:

I don't know that we know for certain that this will be the case.

In some of the interviews that I've read/watched, it seems that Leica and Panasonic want to keep the incompatibility issues experienced in Micro 4/3 to a minimum level. Perhaps the aperture rings will work (maybe at least on the Lumix S Pro that are certified by Leica) regardless of brand... and this is supposed to be more than "mount sharing" in operations. There's supposed to be some strategic vision agreements (i.e. Panasonic isn't releasing any APS-C/APS-H bodies but Sigma possibly will) and fleshing out strategic lens roadmaps to cover critical focal lengths as quickly as possible. The companies will operate independently but will supposedly think strategically collectively - whatever that will actually mean. In either case, if I were to move to this system then I'd likely focus on Panasonic and Sigma lenses, to begin with, and Panasonic bodies to own more than likely.

 

[ptomsu]

I don't know that we know for certain that this will be the case.

In some of the interviews that I've read/watched, it seems that Leica and Panasonic want to keep the incompatibility issues experienced in Micro 4/3 to a minimum level. Perhaps the aperture rings will work (maybe at least on the Lumix S Pro that are certified by Leica) regardless of brand... and this is supposed to be more than "mount sharing" in operations. There's supposed to be some strategic vision agreements (i.e. Panasonic isn't releasing any APS-C/APS-H bodies but Sigma possibly will) and fleshing out strategic lens roadmaps to cover critical focal lengths as quickly as possible. The companies will operate independently but will supposedly think strategically collectively - whatever that will actually mean. In either case, if I were to move to this system then I'd likely focus on Panasonic and Sigma lenses, to begin with, and Panasonic bodies to own more than likely.

I only can hope you are right - but my whole life experience unfortunately tells me that this might in best case a nice dream :ROTFL:

 

[iiiNelson]

I only can hope you are right - but my whole life experience unfortunately tells me that this might in best case a nice dream :ROTFL:

Perhaps. Only time will tell.

 

[PeterA]

Leica have just released a firmware upgrade for the SL to address compatibility issues....

 

[Bob]

Nice cameras. And everybody would like to know how well they work with M-lenses .

Take one apart and measure the thickness of the IR filter
-bob

 

[PeterA]

This is my favourite 'look generating' combination of camera and lens in 24MP and this is the type of combination that has to be beaten or at least matched by Panasonic and Sigma in their camera offerings - from a stills shooter POV - I have no interest what so ever in video.

- as a Leica shooter - I have to wait to see what the Leica SL2 looks like as its sensor in likelihood will accomodate M lenses if the Panasonic S1R can handle M lenses as well as the SL which is what many SL shooters are hoping for - then it is game on.:grin:

Pete

 

[SrMphoto]

Take one apart and measure the thickness of the IR filter
-bob

It is not only the thickness of the IR filter that matters for optimal M-lens compatibility but also the way that the (sensor) microlenses are designed.

 

[Bernard]

I think that will be what happens - unfortunately DFD will be reserved for Panasonic lenses.

No need to worry, Leica already uses DFD on the SL. Just search for "DFD Leica SL" and you'll get hundreds of hits going back to the introduction of that camera.

 

[iiiNelson]

No need to worry, Leica already uses DFD on the SL. Just search for "DFD Leica SL" and you'll get hundreds of hits going back to the introduction of that camera.

True... it was long suspected and rumored that Panasonic/TowerJazz was making the electronic internals/Sensors for the Leica SL/Q/M10. I wouldn’t be surprised if we saw 100% compatibility here across the board. It would REALLY be something.

 

[SrMphoto]

No need to worry, Leica already uses DFD on the SL. Just search for "DFD Leica SL" and you'll get hundreds of hits going back to the introduction of that camera.

I searched for "DFD Leica SL" and could not find any relevant result saying that Leica SL uses DFD. Could you please list a URL or two? Thanks. (KEH.com is the only who mentions it, no idea where they got their information from; DPReview does not mention it at all)

DFD is one part focus algorithm and one part lens data. AFAIK, lens data used to be stored in the camera, but now it can be stored in the lens. Hopefully, L-mount spec includes a transfer of DFD data between lens and camera as well.

 

[helged]

I searched for "DFD Leica SL" and could not find any relevant result saying that Leica SL uses DFD. Could you please list a URL or two? Thanks. (KEH.com is the only who mentions it, no idea where they got their information from; DPReview does not mention it at all)

DFD is one part focus algorithm and one part lens data. AFAIK, lens data used to be stored in the camera, but now it can be stored in the lens. Hopefully, L-mount spec includes a transfer of DFD data between lens and camera as well.

From http://en.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-SL/Leica-SL/Details, under the "24 MP CMOS Sensor":

"The Leica SL thanks the exceptional speed of its autofocus to Depth From Defocus (DFD) technology. In conventional, contrast-based AF, the focusing point is determined by a gradual, step-by-step approach. DFD enables the camera to determine the focusing point by the comparison of only two images with different depth of field. This avoids the need for time-consuming “hunting”, and the fine-tuning is then performed by the comparison of contrast values."

 

[SrMphoto]

From http://en.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-SL/Leica-SL/Details, under the "24 MP CMOS Sensor":

"The Leica SL thanks the exceptional speed of its autofocus to Depth From Defocus (DFD) technology. In conventional, contrast-based AF, the focusing point is determined by a gradual, step-by-step approach. DFD enables the camera to determine the focusing point by the comparison of only two images with different depth of field. This avoids the need for time-consuming “hunting”, and the fine-tuning is then performed by the comparison of contrast values."

And thank you here as well !

 

[iiiNelson]

From http://en.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-SL/Leica-SL/Details, under the "24 MP CMOS Sensor":

"The Leica SL thanks the exceptional speed of its autofocus to Depth From Defocus (DFD) technology. In conventional, contrast-based AF, the focusing point is determined by a gradual, step-by-step approach. DFD enables the camera to determine the focusing point by the comparison of only two images with different depth of field. This avoids the need for time-consuming “hunting”, and the fine-tuning is then performed by the comparison of contrast values."

Thanks for sharing. I wonder if Panasonic will share this technology with Sigma as well. If so, then perhaps the L-Mount Alliance will be in a different place (compatibility wise) than Micro 4/3 Consortium ever esteemed to be. Interesting partnership for sure.

 

[ptomsu]

If DFD is supported by all L-mount member's products then this marks a new way of cooperation that was not seen before :thumbs:

 

[iiiNelson]

If DFD is supported by all L-mount member's products then this marks a new way of cooperation that was not seen before :thumbs:

Yeah and at the very least you’ll know that Leica and Panasonic L lenses are 100% compatible... probably Sigma lenses too though.

 

[PeterA]

My approach to camera and lens 'appreciation' has always been user based - making photographs and looking at what I see and how things feel in the hand and what works for me and what doesn't. I say this as a prelude to what I am about to say regarding the Panasonic camera/lens entrance into 35mm land and what I think we can 'expect' to see as far as co-operation goes.

I think that most user cases will see little difference between the performance of this or that lens offered by any of the participants for a given focal length and aperture. Does this mean that we can expect to see total co-operation between the companies? Well I think the answer to that will be yes and no.

I think co-operation will see L mount lenses being able to be recognized and suitable basic in camera adjustments applied to lens corrections - these corrections it seems will be based on two levels of certification - a binary filter if you like. If a lens design meets all criteria for acceptance then I suspect that the highest possible set of in camera L mount compatibility can be expected if not then there will be less. It is interesting that the arbiter is designated to be Leica.

There will also be differences in rendering at the raw and Jpeg level of output between the companies - this is an unavoidable outcome of the base line choices that each manufacturer will design into their read in read out algos and choice of processor architecture OS.

There will also be less perceptible in most cases but obvious differences in lens performance in many cases - due to lens design - including lens coatings - something which isn't paid a lot of attention in general lens discussions.

I would also be surprised if Panasonic's chip provides the microlens facility to make M lenses work well with their cameras - surprised and delighted I should say - so I don't expect to see this.

Fascinating to see Panasonic/Leica at least ( who knows what Sigma will do) go with their chip which will be different to Sony/Nikon - which is different to Canon.

the nearly 6M pixel EVF of the Panasonic might end up being the most important differentiation from my perspective - I can't wait to look through one of these and compare it to the SL - I hope other companies ( esp Fuji) take note of this development as once one gets used to a high quality EVF experience it is difficult to consider lesser resolutions as (for me) this is the #1 issue - how easy is it to visualise what i am going to get.

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

When looking at specs, ergonomics and size, it's pretty clear to me who this camera is aimed at: D8xx and 5DS users. Never mind that the Canon and Nikon offer superior AF-C. If most owners of hi-res cameras are like me (former D810 user), they rarely use AF-C anyway, and Panasonic's AF-S is as fast and precise as any camera out there.

DSLR users are used to big cameras, and for the intended use, the size and weight is not always a disadvantage. Sometimes, like when using heavy lenses, it can be an advantage. The ergonomics of the S1/R get very high scores from reviewers so far, and the slimmer body should give an even better grip than on the large DSLR bodies.

Sony users won't change to this camera, and neither will Fuji users. However, the DSLR users are much more numerous, and therefore much more interesting to Panasonic. For me, I see a possible D810 replacement in this camera, should I choose to go big again.