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Thread: Panasonic S1

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Panasonic S1

    First official video trailer about S1

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=bapkYLS6A0Q

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    The S1 is not just getting any love.

    I remember when 24mp was thought to be the "sweet spot" for FF sensors.

    Gary

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    The S1 is not just getting any love.

    I remember when 24mp was thought to be the "sweet spot" for FF sensors.

    Gary
    It looks like camera manufacturers are giving people the choice to be happy with the sweet spot or to have access to higher resolution if they require it- Sony started this strategy and everyone now is copying - a good thing I think.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    I agree Peter that having a choice between a ~24mp and higher resolution version is a great choice to have. That's why I own both the A7II and the A7rII cameras.

    I've just noticed that the 24mp cameras often get short shrift, less attention and "love" in reviews and comments when released at the same time as their higher resolution sibling.

    It would be great if Leica could have both a less expensive 24mp and higher cost 40+mp version of the SL in the future, but that is probably asking too much.

    Gary

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    I agree Peter that having a choice between a ~24mp and higher resolution version is a great choice to have. That's why I own both the A7II and the A7rII cameras.

    I've just noticed that the 24mp cameras often get short shrift, less attention and "love" in reviews and comments when released at the same time as their higher resolution sibling.

    It would be great if Leica could have both a less expensive 24mp and higher cost 40+mp version of the SL in the future, but that is probably asking too much.

    Gary
    The current 4 yr old and still better than anything else out there at 24MP SL is worth looking at if you have any interest in L mount or M mount shooting. I wont be selling mine to switch into a newer 24MP camera -no point for my very simple needs at that MP range. I will be deciding between the new SL2 at 50MP or keeping the FujiGFX for 50MP - my decision as far as 100MP is already made with the soon to be released Fuji 100MP mirrorless camera. Both 50 and 100MP cameras are not about using the native aspect ratio of the chips they come in - it is about my ability to extract a 25 ( from 50) and 50 from 100MP - XPan aspect ratio. 50MP is plenty enough to print in meters in the aspect ratio I use.

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Impressive review of the S1 from London Camera Exchange - and what is even better it is from beautiful Hallstatt in Austria covered in heavy snow

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUhAI7Dbgqc
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    The S1 is not just getting any love.
    It's getting love from the video crowd, but not as much from the photo geeks.

    It will probably get the most love from paying customers too. If it's anything like Sony, the 24MP camera will outsell the 40+ MP camera by a wide margin.

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    The specs are impressive. I personally think 24mp is more than enough for today's lenses. The S1/R have most of the features I want like two cards and robust weather sealing. I'm not much into video, but having those options is nice. Although, the Af specs do seem impressive, the use of contrast AF w/DFD, might make this less useful if adapting "M" lenses, but maybe I'm wrong. The Nikon Z is by far the best camera i've used for my work and the ability to use my M 50 Lux with phase off the sensor is remarkable. Zoom and peaking are the most accurate way to get good MF with fast lenses. I also shoot with a D810 because of the ability to back up my images in camera, but I would prefer to use just one camera with the extra back up capability and keep a Z6/Z7 as a back up camera. Lumix lens line up at launch is equally as impressive.

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by jdphoto View Post
    The specs are impressive. I personally think 24mp is more than enough for today's lenses. The S1/R have most of the features I want like two cards and robust weather sealing. I'm not much into video, but having those options is nice. Although, the Af specs do seem impressive, the use of contrast AF w/DFD, might make this less useful if adapting "M" lenses, but maybe I'm wrong. The Nikon Z is by far the best camera i've used for my work and the ability to use my M 50 Lux with phase off the sensor is remarkable. Zoom and peaking are the most accurate way to get good MF with fast lenses. I also shoot with a D810 because of the ability to back up my images in camera, but I would prefer to use just one camera with the extra back up capability and keep a Z6/Z7 as a back up camera. Lumix lens line up at launch is equally as impressive.
    The Leica SL also uses contrast detect with DFD technology. By most accounts, most Leica M users believe this to be the second best option for M lenses. PDAF helps with focus acquisition speed and tracking and contrast detect helps with accuracy. Most Mirrorless cameras use a combination of both and by most accounts the best implementations are Canon’s Dual Pixel and Sony’s 4D Hybrid AF when it comes to tracking in Mirrorless cameras.

    Most reviews are stating that the S1/S1R are the best CDAF based systems they’ve seen (even in pre-production firmware) but that they’d still like to see where it can go in the future. Perhaps Panasonic has it right and they can get the algorithms to a point to where performance is negligible in actual shooting... or perhaps they will go as far as they can and find a way to include PDAF without taking the theoretical IQ hits that can happen in extreme situations.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    The Leica SL also uses contrast detect with DFD technology. By most accounts, most Leica M users believe this to be the second best option for M lenses. PDAF helps with focus acquisition speed and tracking and contrast detect helps with accuracy. Most Mirrorless cameras use a combination of both and by most accounts the best implementations are Canon’s Dual Pixel and Sony’s 4D Hybrid AF when it comes to tracking in Mirrorless cameras.

    Most reviews are stating that the S1/S1R are the best CDAF based systems they’ve seen (even in pre-production firmware) but that they’d still like to see where it can go in the future. Perhaps Panasonic has it right and they can get the algorithms to a point to where performance is negligible in actual shooting... or perhaps they will go as far as they can and find a way to include PDAF without taking the theoretical IQ hits that can happen in extreme situations.
    Good points. I'm assuming you mean banding in regards to IQ hits in extreme situations? This is promising tech for sure. I also imagine that all mirrorless can zoom in the EVF for MF lenses. The specs on the Limix EVF are considerably better than the Z7 too.

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by jdphoto View Post
    Good points. I'm assuming you mean banding in regards to IQ hits in extreme situations? This is promising tech for sure. I also imagine that all mirrorless can zoom in the EVF for MF lenses. The specs on the Limix EVF are considerably better than the Z7 too.
    Yes banding can occur in extreme situation but I’m talking specifically about the “rainbows” that can occur where you see the OSPDAF points in extreme cases. Doesn’t happen often but it can happen.

    I dont know a camera on the market that can’t zoom in for MF assist. They all have done that for the better part of the last 10 years. What’s interesting is that the LUMIX S has a picture in picture box that shows the desired area to obtain critical sharpness while maintaining the overall composition for the user to see. I’m not sure if I like it better or not but it seems to be a great alternative way to do the same job.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    What are the advantages/disadvantages to using contrast detect w/DFD of the S1/S1r vs phase detect of the Z7? Do only Panasonic lenses work with DFD, considering it's using a database to make adjustments such a bokeh, micro contrast etc?

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Are you referring to PDAF striping? See this sample from the A7III and look at the woman's face at 100%:

    https://www.dpreview.com/sample-gall...tos/5655951041

    This is a pretty rare occurrence according to DPReview, take a look at their followup:

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/697414...-heres-the-fix

    For DFD, I think the biggest downside is that contrast-detect AF is still relying on moving slightly past the optimal focal point, and then tracking back to hit the target. Now from what I've seen, the S1 does this very quickly, so it still can track moving objects pretty well for stills photography. Although it is possible to see this focus in-out when tracking a subject in video, it's extremely subtle IMO so only very discerning (pro?) videographers may feel it unsuitable (manual focus pull may be preferred anyways though).

    Compatibility could be another downside of DFD, I think there is a "profile" built into the lens that the camera reads. Adapting DSLR lenses will just use contrast-detect (assuming AF adapters will be released), as opposed to Sony's system which can use PDAF with adapted lenses. Within the system, presumably it should all be compatible though. Since Leica is using DFD, their lenses should work with it on the S1. We'll have to wait to see about Sigma's lenses and cameras.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by jdphoto View Post
    What are the advantages/disadvantages to using contrast detect w/DFD of the S1/S1r vs phase detect of the Z7? Do only Panasonic lenses work with DFD, considering it's using a database to make adjustments such a bokeh, micro contrast etc?
    The biggest advantage is accuracy and the biggest disadvantage is focus acquisition speed. From the videos I’ve seen this will likely not be an issue in photography but there’s still some ways to go to match what Sony and Canon are doing with their hybrid focus systems IMO. I will say that this is the best implementation of DFD by far and it seems to be largely negligible as it applies to performance differences in everything but continuous focus.

    Personally I wouldnt adapt DSLR lenses to this system but there are autofocus adapters coming soon. I believe there’s a huge benefit to choosing native Panasonic lenses that are near parfocal if hybrid shooting is a priority.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    B&H announced some sort of live, on-line discussion
    re the S1 --to wit:
    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/promo...F37CC795F60BAD

    -d.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    The newest firmware tracks a lot better than in the past in continuous focus and seems to be a mostly negligible issue now for most based on some of the more recent videos with Firmware 1.0.

    https://youtu.be/ONhsUIu6w_I

    It would seem that some people in some territories are beginning to get them into their hands now. I imagine that they'll begin shipping out in CONUS within the next two weeks so I'm looking forward to seeing the results in the coming weeks and months. I'm unlikely to be an early adopter and I'd need to run them alongside my primary Sony system to see the differences before committing full-on (as I usually do when/if changing systems). There's a good chance that I may add an S1 and kit lens to start with to test for a minimum of 3-6 months unless I REALLY don't like it. The local camera store stopped carrying Panasonic last year though (because it wasn't really moving the way they liked) so I'll likely have to buy sight unseen if I invest into the system which is somewhat different and new for me.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I'm unlikely to be an early adopter and I'd need to run them alongside my primary Sony system to see the differences before committing full-on (as I usually do when/if changing systems). There's a good chance that I may add an S1 and kit lens to start with to test for a minimum of 3-6 months unless I REALLY don't like it.
    What are the compelling features of the Panasonic that are leading you to consider shifting from the Sony?

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    What are the compelling features of the Panasonic that are leading you to consider shifting from the Sony?
    Keep in mind all of the factors I’m about to mention are 100% subjective.

    The biggest issue is actually the desire for a larger sized body. I’ve wanted the option in a Sony body for years for when I use larger lenses. I also like that the lenses are being designed to be near parfocal for FF sensors since I’ve been looking into doing more video this year.

    Nothing is technically wromg with Sony and it’s a great system. The purpose of running both side by side is specifically is to see if performance is significant lower than Sony - because at the end of the day a camera can have “perfect” ergonomics but if it doesn’t work for your workflow then it’s not a real option IMO. I strongly and seriously considered the Fuji X system last year but it wasn’t a suitable replacement for me. Perhaps the Panasonic will be and I already have experience with Panasonic in the past. I can trust the quality of their products. I can say the same for Sony. Canon worked fine too but they’re out of touch for my own personal needs. Nikon isn’t an option for me.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    A great review of the S1 by Steve Huff

    http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2019/0...his-year-2019/

    I must say it also ticks a lot of my boxes - especially handling and adaptability of M lenses

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    A great review of the S1 by Steve Huff

    http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2019/0...his-year-2019/

    I must say it also ticks a lot of my boxes - especially handling and adaptability of M lenses
    He seems to echo what a lot of other reviews have said IMO (which isn’t a criticism but a conformation) that the LUMIX S bodies are outstanding cameras. I’d be interested to see if they can get DFD fast enough to develop/release a direct A9 competitor in time for the 2020 Olympics. That will be the day nearly all reservations flee from the direction Panasonic is going by sticking to CDAF/DFD instead of PDAF.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    He seems to echo what a lot of other reviews have said IMO (which isn’t a criticism but a conformation) that the LUMIX S bodies are outstanding cameras. I’d be interested to see if they can get DFD fast enough to develop/release a direct A9 competitor in time for the 2020 Olympics. That will be the day nearly all reservations flee from the direction Panasonic is going by sticking to CDAF/DFD instead of PDAF.
    For me - even if it is not as fast and accurate as an A9 - this camera is still much more of interest.

    For 95% of my shooting I will not require that speed, even when doing wildlife, butI need many of the other features like bigger body and better grip, better (much better) EVF, the potential that comes with the L-mount in terms of lens choices and finally but very important for me a great mom for all my M-glass.

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    For me - even if it is not as fast and accurate as an A9 - this camera is still much more of interest.

    For 95% of my shooting I will not require that speed, even when doing wildlife, butI need many of the other features like bigger body and better grip, better (much better) EVF, the potential that comes with the L-mount in terms of lens choices and finally but very important for me a great mom for all my M-glass.
    Yeah if my goal was to mount M-lenses this would be arguably the second camera on the list (behind an actual M) but alas I sold all but one lens years ago. All that said, I do believe that many of the modern lenses meet or exceed the optics in the very best M lenses - outside of size concerns. In any case though I believe you should buy an inexpensive M to L adapter and head to your local store with your M collection to test out one day and see how the camera works with the specific lenses that you own. If they don’t work all that well and you don’t plan to buy a M then maybe sell the lenses to fund your Nikon Z or LUMIX S purchase and keep your Olympus for telephoto photography since size is a concern... or sell your Olympus once the XH2 is out and pick up another Fuji 100-400 lens to fill in for the telephoto work... it’ll seem to solve your potential dilemma.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    He should really have someone proof read his reviews! Best mirrorless of the year? Kind of like putting the cart in front of the horse here. Highly subjective ramblings that don’t compare the sensor stack, flange distance or diameter of mount, all which favor the Nikon Z for fast 0.95 lenses and adapting M lenses. An outdated top LCD and the worst design for the on/off switch of any mirrorless camera that requires two hands to use. It’s funny how so many photographers wanted the smaller mirrorless cameras because of the weight and ergonomics, but praise this ungainly design. DXO has compared the S1 camera and gives it the same score as the Z6 even without a OLPF. Maybe when there’s more native lenses or when prices inevitably come down it might be a better value proposition ( if that’s even possible with digital cameras).

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by jdphoto View Post
    He should really have someone proof read his reviews! Best mirrorless of the year? Kind of like putting the cart in front of the horse here. Highly subjective ramblings that don’t compare the sensor stack, flange distance or diameter of mount, all which favor the Nikon Z for fast 0.95 lenses and adapting M lenses. An outdated top LCD and the worst design for the on/off switch of any mirrorless camera that requires two hands to use. It’s funny how so many photographers wanted the smaller mirrorless cameras because of the weight and ergonomics, but praise this ungainly design. DXO has compared the S1 camera and gives it the same score as the Z6 even without a OLPF. Maybe when there’s more native lenses or when prices inevitably come down it might be a better value proposition ( if that’s even possible with digital cameras).
    Tastes obviously differ. I like his style of reviews and most times highly prefer this to the boring reviews where reviewers just talk about what boxes are ticked and what not. I am not always his opinion, but generally I like how he tests and describes products - mainly from a usability and enjoyment perspective.

    Having said that I am sure the Z6/Z7 are some other great contenders when it comes to using adapted M lenses. IMO it all comes down to what individuals like or prefer most. Cannot say of today that would be Nikon or Panasonic mirrorless. This is also the main reason I am not buying for now and give it some more months before I decide which direction (manufacturer) I will go with mirrorless FF. This is the luxury I have currently as I am not invested in any FF system and I am actually really enjoying this status.

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by jdphoto View Post
    He should really have someone proof read his reviews! Best mirrorless of the year? Kind of like putting the cart in front of the horse here. Highly subjective ramblings that don’t compare the sensor stack, flange distance or diameter of mount, all which favor the Nikon Z for fast 0.95 lenses and adapting M lenses. An outdated top LCD and the worst design for the on/off switch of any mirrorless camera that requires two hands to use. It’s funny how so many photographers wanted the smaller mirrorless cameras because of the weight and ergonomics, but praise this ungainly design. DXO has compared the S1 camera and gives it the same score as the Z6 even without a OLPF. Maybe when there’s more native lenses or when prices inevitably come down it might be a better value proposition ( if that’s even possible with digital cameras).
    In fairness, he does caveat his “camera of the year” remark with an “as of April 2019.” That’s an important distinction to his opinion if you’re going to characterize his words. Maybe the top LCD is “outdated” but it’s functional in providing the user information on the top plate. Many like the design of the LUMIX S specifically for when using pro level lenses... well that’s my own interest in it. IMO the Nikon Z doesn’t feel all that different from the Sony and lacks the ability to mount a vertical grip. Either feels better than the Canon to me personally. Panasonic offers dual card slots which is necessary in a pro body so I’ve been told by Nikon and Canon users for years now when Sony bodies lacked them... now it’s a debated issue for many. Pretty much all systems have native lens gaps but the strength of the L-Mount is that they’ll have a large native lens range fairly quickly due to their partnerships.

    Regarding whether the Lumix S is better than the Nikon Z... he’s used and tested both for his needs. I have no skin in either game right now personally but there’s not a Mirrorless Mount that can’t handle 0.95 lenses. It was never a problem for Leica M cameras and it has a smaller mount that Sony E mount but the same size as the Nikon F mount... to the point that sensor mount size became an issue for photographers in late Summer 2018... never heard anyone complain about it prior to that.

    In any case though choice is good. Not everyone wants a Sony, Nikon, Canon, or whatever. All are capable and we all have our subjective preferences.
    Last edited by iiiNelson; 18th April 2019 at 12:36.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    In fairness, he does caveat his “camera of the year” remark with an “as of April 2019.” That’s an important distinction to his opinion if you’re going to characterize his words. Maybe the top LCD is “outdated” but it’s functional in providing the user information on the top plate. Many like the design of the LUMIX S specifically for when using pro level lenses... well that’s my own interest in it. IMO the Nikon Z doesn’t feel all that different from the Sony and lacks the ability to mount a vertical grip. Either feels better than the Canon to me personally. Panasonic offers dual card slots which is necessary in a pro body so I’ve been told by Nikon and Canon users for years now when Sony bodies lacked them... now it’s a debated issue for many. Pretty much all systems have native lens gaps but the strength of the L-Mount is that they’ll have a large native lens range fairly quickly due to their partnerships.

    Regarding whether the Lumix S is better than the Nikon Z... he’s used and tested both for his needs. I have no skin in either game right now personally but there’s not a Mirrorless Mount that can’t handle 0.95 lenses. It was never a problem for Leica M cameras and it has a smaller mount that Sony E mount but the same size as the Nikon F mount... to the point that sensor mount size became an issue for photographers in late Summer 2018... never heard anyone complain about it prior to that.

    In any case though choice is good. Not everyone wants a Sony, Nikon, Canon, or whatever. All are capable and we all have our subjective preferences.
    Good points. I agree that choice in gear is good and it's also plentiful now too. Other considerations for me are where a product is made regardless of the specs.

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by jdphoto View Post
    Good points. I agree that choice in gear is good and it's also plentiful now too. Other considerations for me are where a product is made regardless of the specs.
    I generally agree but if we’re honest, we have little say in it. Even if a product is assembled in Japan, USA, Germany, or wherever there’s a good chance components may be manufactured in a country like China, Thailand, Vietnam, Korea, etc. That’s the nature of Globalism in the economy. What we can be concerned about is the QA/QC processes and cases of potential human rights abuses... if you care about that sort of thing.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I generally agree but if we’re honest, we have little say in it. Even if a product is assembled in Japan, USA, Germany, or wherever there’s a good chance components may be manufactured in a country like China, Thailand, Vietnam, Korea, etc. That’s the nature of Globalism in the economy. What we can be concerned about is the QA/QC processes and cases of potential human rights abuses... if you care about that sort of thing.
    I think putting QA/QC in the same column as human rights abuses is a bit lacking in human sensibility. Who cares about any of it as long as we can buy cheap products?

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by jdphoto View Post
    I think putting QA/QC in the same column as human rights abuses is a bit lacking in human sensibility. Who cares about any of it as long as we can buy cheap products?
    Blood capacitors?

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    I picked up one on a trip recently and am still starting to use it. So far, however, I am very impressed. I much prefer it to my A7Rii and A7S in terms of handling and the way that it handles M lenses. Most of my M lenses are working very well, even in the corners...better than the A7 series. That said, some are still not perfect. For example the 25mm Biogon has very noticeable smearing. Overall, I think the camera is a breath of fresh air compared to the Sonys. I have not used the SL or Nikon mirrorless, however. I find the color from the Panasonic much nicer, as is the manual lens handling, VF, stabilization, interface for external recorders, and my lord, the battery life! The Sony will literally be 30% drained after a week or two of sitting, and even a full battery only lasts for a 20-30 minutes of 4k recording. They are TERRIBLE. I know they addressed this in the 3 series, but after using the Sonys for video for a few years, the Panasonic is a revelation. The jury is still out on how it handles night shooting compared to the A7S, but it is really quite good. Meanwhile, the body itself is far more versatile since it is 24mp instead of 12 and also has the high resolution mode to give you 96mp in still compositions. I have tried it and it is superb...exceptionally sharp without artifacts. I feel like Panasonic made a very good study of the market and improved across the board compared to Sony cameras in actual use. This is leaving aside the fact that the native lenses seem to be far better as well (assuming you use the SL lenses or Panasonic certified by Leica lenses. Though even the 24-105 is suppose to be very good).
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    I received mine a few days ago and finally had a chance to test a few of my m-mount lenses. I'm not a pixel peeper and don't enjoy testing. I have an uneasy feeling that one side of each photo is softer than the other (which would mean a tilted sensor). I can't tell for sure and doubt that it would mean much in ordinary shooting, but don't want to keep this one if there is a tilt. If anyone looks at these photos and thinks there is a problem with a tilt, please let me know. I have started at #1 with wide open and moved up to f/11 on each lens. I put the camera on a tripod with IS off. I did not have a release. I re-focused on each frame. The photos are here: lens_test .

    I opened in LR and applied CA and lens correction. No sharpening or noise reduction or any other adjustments were made.

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    I received mine a few days ago and finally had a chance to test a few of my m-mount lenses. I'm not a pixel peeper and don't enjoy testing. I have an uneasy feeling that one side of each photo is softer than the other (which would mean a tilted sensor). I can't tell for sure and doubt that it would mean much in ordinary shooting, but don't want to keep this one if there is a tilt. If anyone looks at these photos and thinks there is a problem with a tilt, please let me know. I have started at #1 with wide open and moved up to f/11 on each lens. I put the camera on a tripod with IS off. I did not have a release. I re-focused on each frame. The photos are here: lens_test .

    I opened in LR and applied CA and lens correction. No sharpening or noise reduction or any other adjustments were made.
    It seems to me that there's stronger vignetting at the top than at the bottom with all lenses except the 15mm. The 25mm is blurry at top left, but I would think that's the lens or the adapter. What kind of adapter do you use? Are you sure that it's properly adjusted and parallel?

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    I received mine a few days ago and finally had a chance to test a few of my m-mount lenses. I'm not a pixel peeper and don't enjoy testing. I have an uneasy feeling that one side of each photo is softer than the other (which would mean a tilted sensor). I can't tell for sure and doubt that it would mean much in ordinary shooting, but don't want to keep this one if there is a tilt. If anyone looks at these photos and thinks there is a problem with a tilt, please let me know. I have started at #1 with wide open and moved up to f/11 on each lens. I put the camera on a tripod with IS off. I did not have a release. I re-focused on each frame. The photos are here: lens_test .

    I opened in LR and applied CA and lens correction. No sharpening or noise reduction or any other adjustments were made.
    At a quick glance, looks like the non-Leica lenses are significantly better performers than the Leica Aspherical lenses. This seems to be the common trend when adapting to non-Leica Cameras without the lens profiles built into the camera’s firmware. The Zeiss lenses and Boigtlander lenses look better but it looks like most will have to try out their own lens collection on these cameras if the intent is to use it as a body specifically for M-lenses... or just stick to native and SLR lenses.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Thanks, Jorgen and Tre for your observations. Jorgen, I have an inexpensive adapter. You may be right that the adapter may not be optimum. I didn't want to spend $200-300 on an adapter until I assessed whether using M lenses was going to be viable. I will go ahead and buy a good adapter and then decide what lenses to keep. I am not going to buy another Leica M camera, so if the lens doesn't work with the S1, it will go. I bought an inexpensive FD adapter and have a few FD lenses to try out, as well as one or two R lenses. In the meantime, I have the 24-105 lens.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    I would certainly give the native lens a comparison too.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    Thanks, Jorgen and Tre for your observations. Jorgen, I have an inexpensive adapter. You may be right that the adapter may not be optimum. I didn't want to spend $200-300 on an adapter until I assessed whether using M lenses was going to be viable. I will go ahead and buy a good adapter and then decide what lenses to keep. I am not going to buy another Leica M camera, so if the lens doesn't work with the S1, it will go. I bought an inexpensive FD adapter and have a few FD lenses to try out, as well as one or two R lenses. In the meantime, I have the 24-105 lens.
    That was essentially the conclusion I came to as well and many of the newest lenses meet or exceed the optical performance of the Leica M lenses. There’s a few Leica M lenses that I miss and haven’t found a better replacement for but overall I feel like the versatility of any Mirrorless camera exceeds the versatility of any rangefinder camera. If staying in the 24-90 range the point is mostly moot if one is extremely quick to manually focus but outside of those ranges a DSLR or Mirrorless is more versatile to use, frame, and live with.

    From everything ive seen the Panasonic lenses are excellent and there’s not a huge optical performance difference between them and the Leica SL lenses. The Leica L lenses are better but I don’t know that they’re exponentially better. I. Plus probably live with the 3 existing Panasonic lenses and add a fast portrait, a wide normal, and an ultra wide prime in time to cover nearly everything I’d need a camera to do. If they released a reasonably affordable (and sized) f/4 or f/5.6 telephoto zoom similar to the Nikon 200-500 then I’d pick that up for wildlife and call the system complete.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Hi Cindy,
    I think you are probably trying the most difficult lenses for the camera...wide angles and non native sensors do not play well. Before you think it is the body, I would definitely try your native lenses and some SLR lenses. I noticed corner/edge softness in my 35mm Summilux FLE and 50mm Summilux ASPH when they are quite wide open, though they are not too bad, and look good at f 4 or 5.6 and up. I tried the 50mm 1.4 at infinity at 1.4 and it was pretty soft at the edges with strong vignetting, though very sharp in the center. The 25mm Biogon I had was quite soft. In my experience, the 35mm FLE seems better than the 50mm 1.4, and the 75mm and 90mm lenses are very sharp. I am using the M adapter T on the S1.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    I can't say I fully understand the obsession with using film camera lenses on digital bodies.

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    I can't say I fully understand the obsession with using film camera lenses on digital bodies.
    They render differently. To some, myself included, they are much less clinical. Older Leica lenses tend to give a more 3d look in a 2d media. This was their lens philosophy back in the day when sharpness wasn't the greatest concern to them.

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    I have sold all my Leica M lenses except my old 90mm Tele-Elmarit. For sure, the longer lenses perform much better on adapted digital cameras than the wide angle ones. The Mandler designed lenses also work well, at least the 75mm Summilux did.

    As for FD lenses, I picked up an old 20-35mm L lens and it performs quite well on the Sony. Don't know how it would do on the Panasonic.

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    Thanks, Jorgen and Tre for your observations. Jorgen, I have an inexpensive adapter. You may be right that the adapter may not be optimum. I didn't want to spend $200-300 on an adapter until I assessed whether using M lenses was going to be viable. I will go ahead and buy a good adapter and then decide what lenses to keep. I am not going to buy another Leica M camera, so if the lens doesn't work with the S1, it will go. I bought an inexpensive FD adapter and have a few FD lenses to try out, as well as one or two R lenses. In the meantime, I have the 24-105 lens.
    Hi Cindy,

    would you have a chance to try with the original Leica adapter or at least a Novoflex adapter? These are usually high quality and I suppose that the problem you have could come from the adapter you use.

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    That was essentially the conclusion I came to as well and many of the newest lenses meet or exceed the optical performance of the Leica M lenses. There’s a few Leica M lenses that I miss and haven’t found a better replacement for but overall I feel like the versatility of any Mirrorless camera exceeds the versatility of any rangefinder camera. If staying in the 24-90 range the point is mostly moot if one is extremely quick to manually focus but outside of those ranges a DSLR or Mirrorless is more versatile to use, frame, and live with.

    From everything ive seen the Panasonic lenses are excellent and there’s not a huge optical performance difference between them and the Leica SL lenses. The Leica L lenses are better but I don’t know that they’re exponentially better. I. Plus probably live with the 3 existing Panasonic lenses and add a fast portrait, a wide normal, and an ultra wide prime in time to cover nearly everything I’d need a camera to do. If they released a reasonably affordable (and sized) f/4 or f/5.6 telephoto zoom similar to the Nikon 200-500 then I’d pick that up for wildlife and call the system complete.
    I have very similar thoughts. I would probably go with the S1 (or even S1R) and the kit zoom and add 1 or 2 fast Sigma primes and maybe as soon as released a 100-400 Sigma native L-mount lens. Add to that all (or most) of my M lenses, especially that stellar 1.0/50 Noctilux and I think that would be my camera kit for the next decade

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    This is actually a review of the S1R, but it uses a many Sigma and Leica lenses to compare to the Panasonic lenses - so actually an interesting summary about how different L-mount lenses perform on the new Panasonic cameras.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xn3...ature=youtu.be

    I meanwhile come to the conclusion that it might be better to sell most of the M lenses and just go (live) with native L-mount glass because that would obviously give the best results. Maybe only keep 1 or 2 M-mount lenses just for sentimental and other reasons ....

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    I can't say I fully understand the obsession with using film camera lenses on digital bodies.
    I don't fully understand why you think this is an obsession. It's just a different rendering that works well for certain types of images, so some people like to use them. No more, no less.

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    I don't fully understand why you think this is an obsession.
    A lot of ink has been spilled on the subject.

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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    A lot of ink has been spilled on the subject.
    Internet ink?
    And who cares? It still doesn't make it an obsession in my mind.
    Last edited by pegelli; 23rd April 2019 at 10:25.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I have very similar thoughts. I would probably go with the S1 (or even S1R) and the kit zoom and add 1 or 2 fast Sigma primes and maybe as soon as released a 100-400 Sigma native L-mount lens. Add to that all (or most) of my M lenses, especially that stellar 1.0/50 Noctilux and I think that would be my camera kit for the next decade
    Panasonic will release 1.4x and 2x extenders this year as well. So it’s possible that they’ll work with the f/4 lenses as well... but maybe not.

    I still recommend that you purchase an inexpensive M to L adapter and just see if your lenses perform to your standard.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    I can't say I fully understand the obsession with using film camera lenses on digital bodies.
    The easy answer is nostalgia for a modern look of yesteryear.

    The more nuanced answer is that many of the modern lenses are getting harder to discern in rendering - similar to how “portrait and fashion photography” has become more obsessed with the “cinematic” look to the environment and “plastic” look of models. It’s a striking look without a doubt but it’s harder to tell photographers apart when there’s an orange cast on the skin and a cyan cast on the sky.

    The most simple answer is that people like what they like and it doesn't hurt anyone else that they like it. Some just want to create a different artistic effect. It’s no different than a cinematographer electing to shoot on single coat or vintage lenses instead of “8K rated” lenses which are technically superior in every way.

    No wasted ink necessary.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    I can't say I fully understand the obsession with using film camera lenses on digital bodies.
    I will tell you that I don't like the (to me) sterile look of a lot of modern lenses. Also, I happen to like the experience of setting my own exposure and focusing my own lens as part of the process. I am not doing it for anyone but myself and I treasure my collection of manual lenses that I have collected over many years. I have a full Olympus OMD-EM1II kit with pro lenses when I need speed or reach. I bought this camera in order to enjoy my old lenses. I'm not expecting perfection, just looking to find out what it can do.
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    Re: Panasonic S1

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Hi Cindy,

    would you have a chance to try with the original Leica adapter or at least a Novoflex adapter? These are usually high quality and I suppose that the problem you have could come from the adapter you use.
    I will be ordering a better adapter. I started by testing my my most problematic lenses. None are really awful when stopped down, so I will move on to a better adapter.

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