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Thread: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

  1. #151
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I donít dismiss his relevant content though because he happens to have some different hobbies. I donít know the man personally but from everything I do know about him, he seems like a decent man... and at the end of the day his other hobbies donít affect me.
    Since when is defrauding gullible people a hobby?

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    Since when is defrauding gullible people a hobby?
    I donít know who heís defrauding personally... Iíve said repeatedly - I donít pay attention to ANY of that stuff. Maybe others do but I choose not to. Itís simple as that for me.

    If you want to choose to continue dragging this manís other interests down then please do it in another place and with other people. Iím not interested in his other hobbies. Im not interested in passing judgments on him. Iím interested in culminating various camera opinions here and thatís all. the negativity here is why I took an extensive break from this forum. I would appreciate if you can respect that.

    Thank you in advance.
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  3. #153
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by atanabe View Post
    To date, the only mount that I can use my Leica S glass on is the L mount and that played a big factor in the decision. I am not trying to convert others, just going over my reasons for the purchase. When Sigma releases their Foveon camera next year, that will also be considered. But for now, instead of waiting for the ďif only it had this...Ē camera, I bought what I felt had features important to me, to use today.
    I read in another forum that the AF of the S lenses does not work on the S1/S1r. The f-stop seem to work though.
    I own the adapter and the S lenses work on the SL but the focus speed is slow compared to S lenses on the S or compared to SL lenses on the SL, but at least they auto focus on the SL.
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  4. #154
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    DXO has a sensor review of the S1. Very similar performance to the Z6.
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Yes, slightly above the Z6 and just below the A7iii: DXO sensor comparison

    It seems all these recent 24 MP sensors perform very close to each-other
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by jdphoto View Post
    Although, you've already purchased the S1, you might have wanted to wait on the M to Z adapter. I have the Novoflex M to Z and R to Z adapter on a Z7. I can say with enthusiasm that it's the best mirrorless for adapting M lenses I've ever used because of the very thin sensor stack. The ergonomics and weight are imo, much better than any Leica digital with IBIS, EFCS, peaking and zoom. Using f0.95 glass on this camera is amazing and accurate The 28mm Elmarit M, and 50mm 1.4 Lux are excellent on the Z.
    The S1r is really v serious rig for adapted M glass. My close fam member has a Z7 which I use, I have an A7r3/m10-p and I just rented the S1r for a couple weeks. Iíd venture to bet that the S1r has the exact sensor/micro lens (coverglass) as the SL2 will have. Iíve so far tried the 50 APO, 50/.95 Noct, 28 Lux, plus the D35 ZM and they are screaming on the S1r. Still corners appear better on the M10, but thatís most likely due to crop of its sensor. The Z7 handled the D35 very well, but not so well the 50 APO and 28 Lux. I have only compared by switching the same SD card out b/w cameras (except Z7) and photographing pictures on my refrigerator, but I am just so impressed with the S1R.

    I almost feel like Iím holding the SL2
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by NRKStudio View Post
    The S1r is really v serious rig for adapted M glass. My close fam member has a Z7 which I use, I have an A7r3/m10-p and I just rented the S1r for a couple weeks. Iíd venture to bet that the S1r has the exact sensor/micro lens (coverglass) as the SL2 will have. Iíve so far tried the 50 APO, 50/.95 Noct, 28 Lux, plus the D35 ZM and they are screaming on the S1r. Still corners appear better on the M10, but thatís most likely due to crop of its sensor. The Z7 handled the D35 very well, but not so well the 50 APO and 28 Lux. I have only compared by switching the same SD card out b/w cameras (except Z7) and photographing pictures on my refrigerator, but I am just so impressed with the S1R.

    I almost feel like Iím holding the SL2
    Also, do you experience viewfinder choppiness in magnified view on the Z7? Itís v distracting when using the focus magnifier on the Z7 on MF with M glass. Even the Sony is much smoother.

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    So he's pissed off because he wasn't invited to the party?

    Honestly, he lists every area where the S1/R is superior to one or more other cameras and finds a disadvantage. He also keeps repeating that only three lenses are available, which is an outright lie. There's a reason why Panasonic joined forces with Leica.

    Here's an example:
    He complains about the 180fps 1080p, and it isn't perfect. But how many non-Panasonic cameras below $5,000 offer 180fps 1080p?

    Sorry, the guy is nothing but a Youtube clown, and I'm ashamed that I listened to his drivel for more than 15 minutes.
    Lol! You should read the comments, they are really calling him out on the lies. He even puts a non-S Panasonic on the table to try to confuse people into believing he has used the camera!

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Hi all -

    Ok. So I’m at the stage of reading the S1R manual which usually means a purchase is imminent. Also, I have just ordered the Kipon M645SL adapter to enable me to attach the camera to my CAPcam.

    I asked a question earlier about the high resolution functionality of the S1R, and whether in the future it might be possible that Panasonic would introduce the ability to set a delay between each of the 8 frames so that this function could be used with strobes.

    But reading the manual something hit me - High Resoltion mode is detailed as being available with Program, Aperture, Shutter and Manual exposure modes.

    Since in my environment I have complete control over ambient light, presumably if I were to use manual mode and set the shutter speed to, say, half a second, then the camera would expose for 0.5 seconds for each of the 8 frames, thus giving my Profotos time to recharge.

    Can anyone confirm whether I have understood this correctly?

    Kind regards,


    Gerald.

    /edit

    Bugger. High res mode uses the electronic shutter, which cannot be used with flash

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Yes, slightly above the Z6 and just below the A7iii: DXO sensor comparison

    It seems all these recent 24 MP sensors perform very close to each-other
    I would say that the one big advantage that Iíve seen over the A7 III is that the S1 holds color detail a lot better at high ISO than Iíve seen any other camera do.
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by NRKStudio View Post
    The S1r is really v serious rig for adapted M glass. My close fam member has a Z7 which I use, I have an A7r3/m10-p and I just rented the S1r for a couple weeks. I’d venture to bet that the S1r has the exact sensor/micro lens (coverglass) as the SL2 will have. I’ve so far tried the 50 APO, 50/.95 Noct, 28 Lux, plus the D35 ZM and they are screaming on the S1r. Still corners appear better on the M10, but that’s most likely due to crop of its sensor. The Z7 handled the D35 very well, but not so well the 50 APO and 28 Lux. I have only compared by switching the same SD card out b/w cameras (except Z7) and photographing pictures on my refrigerator, but I am just so impressed with the S1R.

    I almost feel like I’m holding the SL2
    It's the thinner sensor stack that gives the Nikon Z7 an advantage when adapting M lenses because of oblique angles of light. The wide diameter, short flange and thin sensor cover allow light a more direct path to the sensor. I'm pretty sure the M10 has a 36x24 sensor, so wouldn't be considered "cropped". I haven't read many reviews since the S1/S1r is in stock at most retailers. Although, DXO has a sensor score for the S1 similar to the Z6. The pre hype seems to be more enthusiastic than the pre orders. Also, shooting interior pictures might not be the best comparison as you probably won't use the full throw of the lens. Try MF at all distances utilizing the the full aperture range. All cameras today are excellent. Some less slippery or more bulky than others, but if specifically adapting M lenses to another camera, then the Z 7 is hard to beat, imo.
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    Hi all -

    Ok. So I’m at the stage of reading the S1R manual which usually means a purchase is imminent. Also, I have just ordered the Kipon M645SL adapter to enable me to attach the camera to my CAPcam.

    I asked a question earlier about the high resolution functionality of the S1R, and whether in the future it might be possible that Panasonic would introduce the ability to set a delay between each of the 8 frames so that this function could be used with strobes.

    But reading the manual something hit me - High Resoltion mode is detailed as being available with Program, Aperture, Shutter and Manual exposure modes.

    Since in my environment I have complete control over ambient light, presumably if I were to use manual mode and set the shutter speed to, say, half a second, then the camera would expose for 0.5 seconds for each of the 8 frames, thus giving my Profotos time to recharge.

    Can anyone confirm whether I have understood this correctly?

    Kind regards,


    Gerald.

    /edit

    Bugger. High res mode uses the electronic shutter, which cannot be used with flash
    What scenario would you use this for? I'm thinking product/table top shoots? By combining multiple 8 frame images you are effectively getting a long exposure (0.5*8=4 seconds) for each sequence. What about using continuous lights or simply stitching/stacking images together for high rez and negating any sync or recharge issues you might encounter with the Lumix. You would have to use HSS to get that kind of speed, albeit, at a lower output, but Profoto HSS does not support the Lumix...yet. Go with high output continuous lights.

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by jdphoto View Post
    What scenario would you use this for? I'm thinking product/table top shoots? By combining multiple 8 frame images you are effectively getting a long exposure (0.5*8=4 seconds) for each sequence. What about using continuous lights or simply stitching/stacking images together for high rez and negating any sync or recharge issues you might encounter with the Lumix. You would have to use HSS to get that kind of speed, albeit, at a lower output, but Profoto HSS does not support the Lumix...yet. Go with high output continuous lights.
    Hi -

    Yes, product shots.

    But I wouldnít be getting a long exposure because I have zero ambient light (well, effectively zero), so each exposure would only be illuminated by the flash.

    Continuous light is an option to explore. I have some LED panels that I can test, but the power just isnít there compared to what the D1ís can output, and am not sure how they would work with the electronic shutter.

    I donít need HSS - I just need to have a programmable gap between each of the exposures for the HR stack.

    Kind regards,

    Gerald.

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    Hi -

    Yes, product shots.

    But I wouldnít be getting a long exposure because I have zero ambient light (well, effectively zero), so each exposure would only be illuminated by the flash.

    Continuous light is an option to explore. I have some LED panels that I can test, but the power just isnít there compared to what the D1ís can output, and am not sure how they would work with the electronic shutter.

    I donít need HSS - I just need to have a programmable gap between each of the exposures for the HR stack.

    Kind regards,

    Gerald.
    I believe thereís an anti-flicker mode for reducing the potential for banding when using an electronic shutter... but you also have an app thatís can control the camera remotely so that you can stick to mechanical shutter. Continuous lighting is a decent option that many are using more often since there has been several strides made into affordable color stable options.
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I believe thereís an anti-flicker mode for reducing the potential for banding when using an electronic shutter... but you also have an app thatís can control the camera remotely so that you can stick to mechanical shutter. Continuous lighting is a decent option that many are using more often since there has been several strides made into affordable color stable options.
    Hi -

    My understanding from the manual is that high resolution mode forces use of the electronic shutter - mechanical shutter simply is not an option. If it were, then I would have a solution where I could use the strobes by setting a slow shutter speed.

    I will certainly try out continuous lighting. I have a Rosco Pro Gaffer's LitePad kit that I've not used since getting my Profoto D1's. Will definitely give it a try.

    Kind regards,


    Gerald.

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Gordon Laing - Camera Labs Review

    https://youtu.be/YCH7k9q4NHE

    Outside of his repeated harping of there not being a selfie screen in his camera reviews I generally always enjoy his viewpoints. Even still itís a valid thing to mention for people looking for those types of screens but I donít know that this is the ideal system to vlog with given the size. If a person wanted to conduct interviews and check framing then thereís the very capable LUMIX Sync app or external monitors that can assist in both. To me this is largely a non-issue and if using a lens in the 28mm range or wider, holding the camera at full extension typically will get you a selfie viewpoint without need to critically focus. In any case, itís yet another largely positive review of the camera system which presents another option to strongly take into consideration.
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Visible Light & IR Photographer
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    DPReview review... overall itís very positive with a few AF quirks for continuous shooting in video.

    https://youtu.be/S34Tp7czj74
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    DPReview review... overall it’s very positive with a few AF quirks for continuous shooting in video.

    https://youtu.be/S34Tp7czj74
    Actually, the review exposes the one flaw in all Panasonic cameras - their proprietary DFD AF system.

    I was hoping that perhaps it had got better with these FF models by Nichols seems to confirm that the continuous AF for stills and video is still unreliable in his review.

    It was this unreliability which lead to my departure from the Panasonic m43rds system. It was fine for static subjects and I used Panasonic cameras extensively for architectural and urban landscape photography for the best part of 10 years. It was when I tried to use it for wildlife and especially birds in flight that I became aware of how bad DFD was.

    It pains me to be negative towards Panasonic cameras in this way because the ergonomics, the sensors and the lenses are very good indeed. But my experience of using them for fast moving subjects was bad enough for me to move systems and Nichols in his review suggests that if action/wildlife is your need then there are more responsive AF systems out there and sadly I agree with him.

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    Actually, the review exposes the one flaw in all Panasonic cameras - their proprietary DFD AF system.

    I was hoping that perhaps it had got better with these FF models by Nichols seems to confirm that the continuous AF for stills and video is still unreliable in his review.

    It was this unreliability which lead to my departure from the Panasonic m43rds system. It was fine for static subjects and I used Panasonic cameras extensively for architectural and urban landscape photography for the best part of 10 years. It was when I tried to use it for wildlife and especially birds in flight that I became aware of how bad DFD was.

    It pains me to be negative towards Panasonic cameras in this way because the ergonomics, the sensors and the lenses are very good indeed. But my experience of using them for fast moving subjects was bad enough for me to move systems and Nichols in his review suggests that if action/wildlife is your need then there are more responsive AF systems out there and sadly I agree with him.

    LouisB
    Yeah I sort of agree but until I get one to test for myself it’s kinda hard to make a decision. Many people have extremely positive reviews about them but the AF is the elephant in the room that’s consistently harped on. For professional work a person needs to be able to trust it and Panasonic might need to bite the bullet and use a hybrid PDAF/DFD system in an action camera line.

    I really want to LOVE this camera because it checks every box except AF (and an option for the focus direction that can be added in firmware) seemingly for me.
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    A comment to Panasonic AF:
    It depends on what you shoot. I've used Panasonic cameras for ten years, and since the GH3, I've found AF extremely fast and very precise. However, I rarely shoot bursts and even for moving subjects, I use AF-S. That is possible simply because the AF is so fast with good lenses.

    They don't make cameras for sports and action, and I don't think that's their aim. However, they are the only cameras that I've used where I can confidently jam the shutter release through in one go and be reasonably sure that I've got the subject in focus. The best lens for this in my experience is the Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, but other MFT high end lenses mostly work fine too.

    AF for video. Anybody doing video on anything resembling an advanced level does it manually, and Panasonic knows that. When that is said, I have used AF with Panasonic cameras shooting video, and it works if the scene isn't too complicated. On the other hand, it's not very useful. With video, I have to watch where the focus is anyway, so doing it manually works just as fine.

    I agree with Louis though that Panasonic may not be the best cameras for BIF.

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Roger C. at Lensrentals had this to say regarding AF:

    "The question I had going in was how well the autofocus would work, and after 1 day I was frustrated with it. Then I did a little online reading and quickly found out what they said was true: if you want good AF performance you MUST use the the options the camera gives you. There are multiple AF modes, each adjustable, along with speed and sensitivity controls. With another day experimenting I quickly found the modes that worked well for me and actually appreciated several things over and above most systems. I got accurate and reasonably quick AF with a great keeper rate, even on birds in flight. Honestly, though, if you arenít willing to do that, donít rent the camera, you wonít be happy."
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Morning

    I may be a complete dumb ***, but for me, understanding how a camera really works and how to get the best from it takes a little time, setup with button allocation and all that is normally an hour or so but it can take me weeks of use before I fully understand how different modes work and where a cameras strengths and weaknesses are. I put zero faith in any online first look or "review" as they are very rarely focussed on passing on decent information, much more geared towards revenue and clicks. If one says AF is lacking, then they all jump on the bandwagon.

    Personally anyone who has held the camera for a day can't judge how a camera works, but that's maybe just me. This dude has had the camera much longer and states that for stills, the tracking is great, a horse at a decent pace with every shot in focus, sounds ok to me.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPgsw1qiInw not that I'm listening to his opinion either to be honest, it's all noise until I have it in my hand and shooting what I shoot, then I can judge for myself.

    I had a day in the UK last week on the way to Iraq, found a store with both bodies and 1 of the kit zooms, body felt really nice in the hand, I like the size but as I couldn't buy the 50 and the 70-200 at that store, I decided it wasn't worth taking the zoom as I know I won't enjoy it so stuck with the GFX this trip. I will pick one up when I next return home in a couple of months.

    For those who have one, I hope it meets your expectations and you enjoy using it!

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    AF for video. Anybody doing video on anything resembling an advanced level does it manually, and Panasonic knows that. When that is said, I have used AF with Panasonic cameras shooting video, and it works if the scene isn't too complicated. On the other hand, it's not very useful. With video, I have to watch where the focus is anyway, so doing it manually works just as fine.

    I agree with Louis though that Panasonic may not be the best cameras for BIF.
    Thatís not 100% true anymore when it comes to people doing event and/or wedding video. Many people expect these types of cameras to have rock solid AF on a gimbal. Few outside of extremely high end videographers are going to have focus pullers. Most are using and relying on rock solid Sony or Canon systems for video. Many love the GH line and use it for many things but they were hoping this camera could solve the video continuous focus. I used to be a single point autofocus shooter (on Autofocus Cameras) until I got the A7RII and saw how high the hit rate was in continuous AF mode even when in single photo drive mode. I rarely shoot burst and donít really care so much about burst speeds in general... it just means Iíll have a crap ton of images to delete. I do care about rock solid continuous focus modes. I care about tracking as an equally important feature. If a camera does neither reliably I canít use it on paid jobs where autofocus is expected. I can use it for my own personal use and thereís a chance that the Panasonic may become a personal system for me if it all doesnít shake out and Iíll invest in a couple of newer generation Sony bodies for actual work. I like a lot about the system for personal use... just done know if I could depend on it long term.

    I acknowledge there could be some user one user error in the DPReview video review - which is why I wonít make decisions one way or another until I can get my own hands on it. I know Chris Nichols is primarily a Nikon shooter and approaches his reviews and usability based on whatís second nature for him. That being said I do believe he is mostly fair and honest in his assessments based on his own user experiences. Jordan Drake is a diehard Panasonic GH user and lives them.
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by dwood View Post
    Roger C. at Lensrentals had this to say regarding AF:

    "The question I had going in was how well the autofocus would work, and after 1 day I was frustrated with it. Then I did a little online reading and quickly found out what they said was true: if you want good AF performance you MUST use the the options the camera gives you. There are multiple AF modes, each adjustable, along with speed and sensitivity controls. With another day experimenting I quickly found the modes that worked well for me and actually appreciated several things over and above most systems. I got accurate and reasonably quick AF with a great keeper rate, even on birds in flight. Honestly, though, if you arenít willing to do that, donít rent the camera, you wonít be happy."
    All I can say is that I desperately tried every AF tweak, including those in an AF primer published by Panasonic and the net result was pretty much the same. Bird portraits: fantastic; birds in flight: about a 10% keeper rate. My new kit achieves long sequences of in focus images when panning and shooting and I get about 80% keeper rate. Something I rarely saw GH5 or G9.

    I have no doubt that for landscapes, portraits, still life and even at a stretch reportage the cameras will be fantastic (my GF1, GH2, GX8, G85, and G9 all were) but without banging on about it, DFD for fast moving subjects is unreliable, imho and you can tinker to your hearts content but it won't make much of a difference.

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by biglouis View Post
    All I can say is that I desperately tried every AF tweak, including those in an AF primer published by Panasonic and the net result was pretty much the same. Bird portraits: fantastic; birds in flight: about a 10% keeper rate. My new kit achieves long sequences of in focus images when panning and shooting and I get about 80% keeper rate. Something I rarely saw GH5 or G9.

    I have no doubt that for landscapes, portraits, still life and even at a stretch reportage the cameras will be fantastic (my GF1, GH2, GX8, G85, and G9 all were) but without banging on about it, DFD for fast moving subjects is unreliable, imho and you can tinker to your hearts content but it won't make much of a difference.

    LouisB
    I am not saying the s1r is a sports camera, but so far I am more surprised in the positive direction about the AF.

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    I actually watched the video from Darryl Carey that Mat thankfully posted earlier (here the link again if you want to find immediately

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPgsw1qiInw

    and I must say I fully agree with Mat. The S1/S1R seem - by the result od this video do an excellent job WRT AF-C in video as well as in still photo, but this seems to be based on FW1.0.

    I fully believe in what Darryl thinks about the S1/S1R - he is a long year Nikon shooter and especially the D850 and it's AF system is one of the best on the market, especially also for AF-C. If he is now selling all his Nikon gear and fully jumping on the Panasonic system that tells me a lot.

    The S1R and L-mount lenses are high on my radar, I will definitely loan this gear to test for my purposes and then make a final decision, but from what I have seen and heard so far this system sounds really super as an around hybrid system. I will keep my m43 gear for now (and maybe even for longer) just to have a really small and light travel system, but who knows if I find a somehow similar configuration size wise with the Panasonic L-mount cameras and lenses this even might replace my Olympus for travel purposes. I could see myself being more than happy on casual travel with just the S1R and the kit zoom and when on serious travel for say Safari then weight and size is no longer such a big concern anyway as then most shooting would be done out of car and/or even with tripod for filming.

    So here we go, thanks again MAT for this post and to some who do not so much believe in the newer Panasonic (AF) capabilities maybe trying again could help

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I fully believe in what Darryl thinks about the S1/S1R - he is a long year Nikon shooter and especially the D850 and it's AF system is one of the best on the market, especially also for AF-C. If he is now selling all his Nikon gear and fully jumping on the Panasonic system that tells me a lot.
    Honestly, what images can he make with the S1R that he can't make with the D850? The only reason it occurs to me such a wholesale shift is warranted is if you want to use Leica SL lenses exclusively. All the Sigma lenses are available in Nikon mount. And Panasonic just offers two f/4 zooms and a 50mm prime. Maybe in a couple of years when they have their lens line fleshed out. This is just GAS.
    Last edited by faberryman; 29th April 2019 at 04:19.

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    Honestly, what images can he make with the S1R that he can't make with the D850? The only reason it occurs to me such a wholesale shift is warranted is if you want to use Leica SL lenses exclusively. All the Sigma lenses are available in Nikon mount. And Panasonic just offers two zooms and a 50mm prime.
    Maybe he doesnít want a DSLR... maybe he believes more in the direction that Panasonic is going in above Nikon... thereís a lot of obvious (even if subjective) reasons heíd dump his Nikon... especially since he documented the reasons for his own personal use...
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    Honestly, what images can he make with the S1R that he can't make with the D850? The only reason it occurs to me such a wholesale shift is warranted is if you want to use Leica SL lenses exclusively. All the Sigma lenses are available in Nikon mount. And Panasonic just offers two f/4 zooms and a 50mm prime. Maybe in a couple of years when they have their lens line fleshed out. This is just GAS marketing.
    I am not sure for him, but for myself, there are 2 things that are important to me that were not an option on the D850 (which I think is an amazing camera and that I believe can do some things better than the S1R). The high resolution mode and the ability to use this on the Cambo Actus. I will not receive my camera until tomorrow so I have not yet seen the high res on my files.

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    Honestly, what images can he make with the S1R that he can't make with the D850? The only reason it occurs to me such a wholesale shift is warranted is if you want to use Leica SL lenses exclusively. All the Sigma lenses are available in Nikon mount. And Panasonic just offers two f/4 zooms and a 50mm prime. Maybe in a couple of years when they have their lens line fleshed out. This is just GAS.
    Honestly there are plenty of reasons - I don't know the reasons for him but for me the main reasons are that the D850 is primarily designed as a still camera and using it for video is really cumbersome and IMO does not come close to what the S1R offers (AF, EVF, profiles, etc.). Further IBIS as well as High Res mode are some more important reason.

    He actually says it quite open somewhere in his video - the D850 is old technology versus the S1R being built around new innovative technology - and this is true also for me - just have a look over the past 5-6 years in several threads here on GetDPI where I was asking and waiting for a mirrorless camera from Nikon. Well it came but too late for me as now I am no longer invested in that Nikon system and can start from scratch. I would have to be crazy to invest today in a Nikon F mount based system and before investing in the Nikon Z system I definitely am looking carefully around what else is on the market and expected in the future. And WRT Sigma lenses for Nikon - wh in all the world should I buy Sigma lenses and adapt them to what else system if I can soon buy native L-mount Sigma lenses! And by end of this year or next year there will be already more than 40 L-mount lenses available - how many for the Z-mount?

    I could go on and on and on ... So it is pretty obvious - battle won and victory declared!

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    I was questioning his rationale for abandoning his Nikon D850 and lenses for the S1R, not yours for buying into it. If I am not mistaken, you are moving from m43 to FF and so have a clean slate.

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    That 50mm seems to be one of the best reasons to buy the S1/R:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDYT2FZtkok

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejy8-bl3QSQ

    As for the comparison with the D850... no, there's no 50mm like this available in F-mount, and that viewfinder seems to be really good.

    There are good arguments for electronic as well as optical viewfinders. Darry Carey has apparently made his choice. I'm a bit more mixed about this, but I understand his choice. The S1R seems to be an outstanding camera. I'll try it in a few days.
    https://www.un.org/en/sections/un-ch...r-i/index.html
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    I was questioning his rationale for abandoning his Nikon D850 and lenses for the S1R, not yours for buying into it. If I am not mistaken, you are moving from m43 to FF and so have a clean slate.
    Even if I would not move from m43 to FF (which is not a done deal for the moment as I tried to explain - but maybe I was not clear enough) but even if I was invested in any DSLR based FF camera system, the rationals for me would be much the same. So to make it easier - even if I shot a D850 still today and had not bought into Nikon Z till now I could easily see myself moving into the L-mount alliance with a Panasonic S1/S1R. To be even more clear I would not hesitate to sell of all my F-mount glass ASAP as long as I could get some decent money out of this and finance the new L-mount system. I hope that helps
    Last edited by ptomsu; 29th April 2019 at 10:29.
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    If I didnt have any SL lenses yet I would maybe prefer the Nikon Z6/Z7 way. The size/quality compomise of the Nikon f1.8 primes (35 and 50 and others to come) makes it a more compact and affordable system. Also the 24-70 is a nice compact lens.

    I did however decide to stay with the SL/Pana system, because I allready own some really nice lenses, and I find it a little easier to get the color right with the SL/Pana.
    Also the S1(r) body really feels substantial in the hand.

    Anybody thinking about a complete switch I would recommend to try both systems before buying.
    Last edited by Paratom; 30th April 2019 at 08:35.
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    If I didnt have any SL lenses yet I would maybe prefer the Nikon Z6/Z7 way. The size/quality compomise of the Nikon f1.8 primes (35 and 50 and others to come) makes it a more compact and affordable system. Also the 24-70 is a nice compact lens.

    I did however decide to stay with the SL/Pana system, because I allready own some really nice lenses, and I find it a little easier to get the color right with the SL/Pana.
    Also the S1(r) body really feels substantial in the hand.

    Anybody thinking about a complete switch I would recommend to try both systems before buying.
    Well I did try out the Nikon and Canon systems and I didn’t care greatly for either one. Canon has some compelling lens designs for photographic purposes and uninspired bodies as of today. With the Nikon I didn’t see the advantage over my existing Sony unless you were an existing Nikon user. The lenses are comparatively larger than the Sony lenses due to the wider mount. Depending on which white paper people choose to believe there’s a point of diminishing returns once the mount goes beyond a certain point - as such Leica believe the sweet spot was their 50.6mm diameter... but that’s a discussion for another day. I will say that every system has capable lenses. The Sony lenses rate well on the charts, Leica has earned their reputation, and the same can be said about Canon/Nikon.

    I do agree with your point in trying out all of the systems. We all have subjective viewpoints that influence or are influenced by our workflow.

    Depending on volume of sales I wouldn’t be surprised to see a price drop on the S1R sooner rather than later. Seems like the A7RIII and now the Z7 are being offered in the $2700 range give or take more frequently than not. I suspect that the S1R will be a harder sale to all except existing L-Mount users when it’s going for $1k more than the competition. I don’t think it’ll be a drastic price cut but I wouldn’t be surprised if within 3-6 months they’re going for $3500 with either a grip and/or spare battery included to sweeten the deal. I’d say lenses were an issue but no one other than Sony has a larger native lens lineup as of today.
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I’d say lenses were an issue but no one other than Sony has a larger native lens lineup as of today.
    There are three Panasonic lenses plus the Leica lenses at $5000 a pop. The Sigma L mount lenses aren't available yet. If you are a current SL user looking for a 47MP body for your Leica SL lenses, the the S1R is certainly the choice, at least until the SL2 is announced. Seems like a small niche of photographers until Panasonic develops the lens line. Replacing your current camera system with an S1/S1R seems premature.
    Last edited by faberryman; 30th April 2019 at 11:23.

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    There are three Panasonic lenses plus the Leica lenses at $5000 a pop. The Sigma L mount lenses aren't available yet. If you are a current SL user looking for a 47MP body for your Leica SL lenses, the the S1R is certainly the choice, at least until the SL2 is announced. Seems like a small niche of photographers until Panasonic develops the lens line. Is there a road map? I may not be following it as closely as I should.
    Google is your friend (if you choose to use it) but most of it has all been posted here...

    I didn't mention price of lenses for a reason. I think itís a factor in who chooses this system but itís not like the best Canon or Nikon lenses are cheap either. In most cases though the lenses that the pro market will be after are going to be in the $1-3k range... unless you shoot sports and in that case Leica lenses arenít quite so expensive in comparison. Sigma will have 11-14 lenses (with 2-3 being designed exclusively for Mirrorless) by the end of the year but neither Canon or Nikon have the 11-14 lenses already available on L-mount from Leica and Panasonic.
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Sony has certainly a wide lens product range ready in regards of lenses for mirrorless. They have some years advantage.
    On the other side, for my taste, the new bodies from Nikon (Z6/Z7) and Pana (S1(r)) and also the SL balance better with bigger lenses. And with growing resolution lenses seem to become bigger to fulfil the optic requirements.

    As a SL user I do like the L-mount alliance. First some Pana lenses can complete the lens line-up (like the 70-200 as a lighter alternative to the 90-280 or also the 24-105 or 50/1.4 (for those who do not yet own the 50 SL lens).

    There are not yet that many lenses available, but the ones available seem to be very good optical quality.
    Nikon has the advantage to use the older lenses with the adapter in AF mode, but I think in a longer term one wants to use native lenses for the system anyways.

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Google is your friend (if you choose to use it) but most of it has all been posted here...
    Well, I see the f2.8 versions of the existing f4 zooms for 2019, and a super telephoto, a macro, and two unspecified primes for 2020. They don't seem to be in a big hurry. I imagine most will rely on the Sigma L-mount offerings when they become available later this year.

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    Sony has certainly a wide lens product range ready in regards of lenses for mirrorless. They have some years advantage.
    On the other side, for my taste, the new bodies from Nikon (Z6/Z7) and Pana (S1(r)) and also the SL balance better with bigger lenses. And with growing resolution lenses seem to become bigger to fulfil the optic requirements.

    As a SL user I do like the L-mount alliance. First some Pana lenses can complete the lens line-up (like the 70-200 as a lighter alternative to the 90-280 or also the 24-105 or 50/1.4 (for those who do not yet own the 50 SL lens).

    There are not yet that many lenses available, but the ones available seem to be very good optical quality.
    Nikon has the advantage to use the older lenses with the adapter in AF mode, but I think in a longer term one wants to use native lenses for the system anyways.
    Iím a pretty large person (by conventional measures) and the reason I entertained the thought of the Canon and Nikon Mirrorless cameras was the marketing speak on them being larger cameras. I found that the Nikon is virtually the same size as the Sony cameras without the option for an external battery grip that I use almost exclusively on my Sony bodies. The Canon is a good size but I found that the grip design was one of the worst Iíve ever felt due to the straight lines inside of the grip. FWIW itís the thing I also disliked about the ergonomics (or lack thereof) of the Leica SL. The Panasonic seems to look like it may be the best designed body. Iím not invested in any DSLR system so the requirement to adapt is lost on me right now.

    The reality is that I can do most things with the LUMIX S and the 3 lenses they released given the lowlight ability of the S1 and the performance of the lenses. My biggest questions still come down to the AF speed in less than optimal conditions. One of the venues I shoot in can see changing light swing between ISO 2000 and 12800 if you remotely want to try to minimize motion blur on the dance floor. Part of the process to try to get photographs on the lower ISO range include timing focus for when the spot lights are in the area you want to photograph and pre-focusing the area to get in the neighborhood. I wonder if the Panasonic can be relied on to do this or if Iíd need to manually zone focus and go about it that way.
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    Well, I see the f2.8 versions of the existing f4 zooms for 2019, and a super telephoto, a macro, and two unspecified primes for 2020. They don't seem to be in a big hurry. I imagine most will rely on the Sigma L-mount offerings when they become available later this year.
    There are also 16-35/4 and teleconverters all by March 2020 if not sooner. I donít know that theyíre relying on Sigma by putting out 10 newly designed lenses within a year.
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    With the 16-35, 24-90, 24-105, 70-200 and 90-280 all being excellent zooms with, a fast 50 either from Pana or Leica, 35/75/90 SL Summicrons one can build a pretty flexible kit. A large range with the zooms, 2 reference fast 50s, 2 good portrait lenses.
    But its missing more specialized lenses like fast tele primes, or some faster wide primes for reasonable price.

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I wonder if the Panasonic can be relied on to do this or if Iíd need to manually zone focus and go about it that way.
    Only way to know for sure is to rent it and try. Not something I would want to rely on YouTube for.

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    With the 16-35, 24-90, 24-105, 70-200 and 90-280 all being excellent zooms with, a fast 50 either from Pana or Leica, 35/75/90 SL Summicrons one can build a pretty flexible kit. A large range with the zooms, 2 reference fast 50s, 2 good portrait lenses.
    But its missing more specialized lenses like fast tele primes, or some faster wide primes for reasonable price.
    Yeah id probably stick to Panasonic (and maybe SOME Sigma lenses) with some select Leica lenses thrown in... namely the 35 or 90 APO-Cron... not much else announced or released from Leica interests me personally.
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    Only way to know for sure is to rent it and try. Not something I would want to rely on YouTube for.
    Well I've said that repeatedly that I will have to rely on my own long term tests... I have nothing against people that make Youtube content. It has its uses. I wonít say that I agree with all of their opinions but itís a frame of reference to consider in making a decision.
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    For multishot, does the camera combine the four shots into one file or do you rely on your editing program to do that? If the later, does LR Classic CC support that feature?

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by faberryman View Post
    For multishot, does the camera combine the four shots into one file or do you rely on your editing program to do that? If the later, does LR Classic CC support that feature?
    Itís actually 8 shots, and they are merged to a single RAW in camera.

    Kind regards,

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    How does "Multi shot" work with astro or wind blown branches or leaves?

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by jdphoto View Post
    How does "Multi shot" work with astro or wind blown branches or leaves?
    There are two different settings for S1/R high-resolution capture, with differences in how the multiple captures are processed to generate the raw file. Mode 1 is said to optimize resolution, while Mode 2 is said to trade off some resolution in order to minimize motion artifacts, but I don't know of any documentation that explains exactly what's different about the processing to achieve that.

    So far, Lloyd Chambers is the only reviewer I've seen who has compared the two modes in the field and documented differences in results. He's been looking at things like moving leaves and water, AFAIK hasn't done any astro tests.

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