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Thread: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

  1. #251
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Itís nice to hear user experiences and I was considering getting the Panasonicís to replace my Sony kit... but with all of the AF disclaimers Iíve rethought it. I do believe that DFD will get to the point where it doesnít matter if a person uses DFD or a hybrid PDAF system once the processing power significantly increases. At that point I will strongly consider the Panasonic... especially if Sony refuses to offer a larger body style. I seemingly love EVERYTHING about the IQ coming from the LUMIX S (mainly the way the color reproduction fidelity holds even in high ISO shots and access to the Leica APO-Summicron lenses to go alongside the Panasonic zooms) and I can see the pairing of a S1R and S1H being a perfect kit for me quite possibly.
    I must say that size wise the Panasonics are far too big and heavy for me. The A7R4 in contrast has just the perfect size for me even holding it with large lenses (100-400) and i balances pretty well. If I want more size I can always add the battery grip and for some occasions this combo will just be right. But I meanwhile prefer the compactness of the A7R4 body in its current incarnation! What comes close is the Nikon Z7 but first they do not offer a native 100-400 and second their AF implementation is still far behind Sony and third they use these XQD cards which I don't need and would mean a complete new storage ecosystem in my case. So most likely it will become Sony A7R4 with some selected lenses for my FF adventures

    WRT DFD - I do no longer believe it will ever get close to the Sony implementations and I think even Nikon is already light years ahead in AF speed and accuracy. And to be honest as already mentioned - all Panasonic FF gear introduced so far is just FAR TOO HEAVY AND BIG for me and I have relatively large hands. Not sure what they are smoking

    And finally I meanwhile have the highest trust in Sony's innovation capabilities - at least if they continue over the next years as they did over the past 5 years. I completely disliked what they brought to market in the beginning but with every release the hugely improved in a continuous way and NO other vendor could follow them even closely. Let alone that they obviously are reigning sensor design and development and this is an overall observation and not only related to MP count!

  2. #252
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I must say that size wise the Panasonics are far too big and heavy for me. The A7R4 in contrast has just the perfect size for me even holding it with large lenses (100-400) and i balances pretty well. If I want more size I can always add the battery grip and for some occasions this combo will just be right. But I meanwhile prefer the compactness of the A7R4 body in its current incarnation! What comes close is the Nikon Z7 but first they do not offer a native 100-400 and second their AF implementation is still far behind Sony and third they use these XQD cards which I don't need and would mean a complete new storage ecosystem in my case. So most likely it will become Sony A7R4 with some selected lenses for my FF adventures

    WRT DFD - I do no longer believe it will ever get close to the Sony implementations and I think even Nikon is already light years ahead in AF speed and accuracy. And to be honest as already mentioned - all Panasonic FF gear introduced so far is just FAR TOO HEAVY AND BIG for me and I have relatively large hands. Not sure what they are smoking

    And finally I meanwhile have the highest trust in Sony's innovation capabilities - at least if they continue over the next years as they did over the past 5 years. I completely disliked what they brought to market in the beginning but with every release the hugely improved in a continuous way and NO other vendor could follow them even closely. Let alone that they obviously are reigning sensor design and development and this is an overall observation and not only related to MP count!
    Fair enough, but I'm just coming from relevant personal experience of having to work with the Sony FE series for years now specifically with their pro G-Master zooms. I don't have an issue with the primes personally though I have no use for the 400/2.8 or 600/4. I've tried the 400/28 (it was PM-R's personal copy) and it was amazing but I'm not buying one. If the 200-600 was a constant aperture then I would have purchased it this summer when I got to test one out in July... even still it's a great lens that is internal focusing and zooming if I remember correctly. I think the one caveat in the Sony system that may seal the deal with me staying put is that Tamron (interestingly enough) may have solved my biggest issue with their f/2.8 offerings. As such I've purchased the 17-28/2.8 and 28-75/2.8. I'm also planning on putting my name on the list for the 70-180/2.8 the day it's available in hopes that they'll balance well enough on the existing Sony bodies. If so then there's little reason for me to switch for incremental IQ differences and potential quality of life improvements. I already have a great collection of Sony FE lenses but I find the weight difference negligible between the A7RII and the Lumix S for the reason that I feel like the Sony pretty much requires people with larger hands to use the grip. When you factor that in then the weight difference is a matter of a few ounces and the volume of size is more or less about the same. With the f/1.8, f/2, some f/1.4 primes or the manual focusing Zeiss/Voigtlanders then the grip may not be needed as one could probably get by with the grip extender as most.

    I agree that Sony has the most tech innovations and it still the most cutting edge system for most purposes but I wouldn't discount what Panasonic (and other makers like Fuji) are doing. We will just have to agree to disagree on the future of DFD. I see it right now as being limited in effectiveness by processing power but as that advances there's no reason why the performance can't significantly improve in continuous AF IMO. The single point AF seems to be fine and is as fast as the best of the PDAF cameras not named A9, 1Dx, or D5. It's only the continuous that suffers ( which coincidently I've grown to love in Sony cameras for their accuracy and speed).
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  3. #253
    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    Fair enough, but I'm just coming from relevant personal experience of having to work with the Sony FE series for years now specifically with their pro G-Master zooms. I don't have an issue with the primes personally though I have no use for the 400/2.8 or 600/4. I've tried the 400/28 (it was PM-R's personal copy) and it was amazing but I'm not buying one. If the 200-600 was a constant aperture then I would have purchased it this summer when I got to test one out in July... even still it's a great lens that is internal focusing and zooming if I remember correctly. I think the one caveat in the Sony system that may seal the deal with me staying put is that Tamron (interestingly enough) may have solved my biggest issue with their f/2.8 offerings. As such I've purchased the 17-28/2.8 and 28-75/2.8. I'm also planning on putting my name on the list for the 70-180/2.8 the day it's available in hopes that they'll balance well enough on the existing Sony bodies. If so then there's little reason for me to switch for incremental IQ differences and potential quality of life improvements. I already have a great collection of Sony FE lenses but I find the weight difference negligible between the A7RII and the Lumix S for the reason that I feel like the Sony pretty much requires people with larger hands to use the grip. When you factor that in then the weight difference is a matter of a few ounces and the volume of size is more or less about the same. With the f/1.8, f/2, some f/1.4 primes or the manual focusing Zeiss/Voigtlanders then the grip may not be needed as one could probably get by with the grip extender as most.

    I agree that Sony has the most tech innovations and it still the most cutting edge system for most purposes but I wouldn't discount what Panasonic (and other makers like Fuji) are doing. We will just have to agree to disagree on the future of DFD. I see it right now as being limited in effectiveness by processing power but as that advances there's no reason why the performance can't significantly improve in continuous AF IMO. The single point AF seems to be fine and is as fast as the best of the PDAF cameras not named A9, 1Dx, or D5. It's only the continuous that suffers ( which coincidently I've grown to love in Sony cameras for their accuracy and speed).

    While I can agree to all what you say, I completely disagree WRT DFD. IMO this will never become as good as PDAF/CDAF systems, even with faster and more powerful processing. It may become faster, but the conventional systems will always stay faster, because they can simply make use of the same processing power. I have to say that maybe it would become fast an accurate enough for your needs.

    But for me DFD is a DEAD END. Hopefully Panasonic once will integrate conventional AF systems ....

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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    While I can agree to all what you say, I completely disagree WRT DFD. IMO this will never become as good as PDAF/CDAF systems, even with faster and more powerful processing. It may become faster, but the conventional systems will always stay faster, because they can simply make use of the same processing power. I have to say that maybe it would become fast an accurate enough for your needs.

    But for me DFD is a DEAD END. Hopefully Panasonic once will integrate conventional AF systems ....
    There was a time (not long ago) people said the same things about Sonyís hybrid AF never catching up to what Canon and Nikon were doing... itís been faster and more accurate in general than DSLRís for years now.

    The point being that I could very well see a system like DFD advancing to the point where the difference between either is negligible or imperceptible to the end user. Itís close enough now in many situations. Where it currently falters is in lower light conditions with continuous. When the math and science gets good enough you can be assured that Panasonic will get to a point where their AF system isnít a hindrance for MOST. I say that because thereís a commitment and weíve seen substantial improvements from where they were 3 years ago with the GH5 where it wasnít close to competing to now where it can meet or exceed many Mirrorless cameras that arenít Sony cameras. You donít have to believe me... the video evidence is out there. Again low light continuous AF isnít as good as Sony but I think itíll get close enough to not matter in time.
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Received my S1R. Not my AF lens just yet, but I did get my Pentax adapter so, the 43mm Limited is sitting on it.

    Really nice feeling camera, with smart button layout. It more or less feels like a Nikon. I haven't dived too deep into the menus but it's all pretty intuitive. It's so easy to manually focus! Really, it's a slick camera. I like the size. If they're not going to make small lenses then don't bother making small cameras. That being said, my little Pentax pancake works well. If I ever get tired of shooting my LX, I'm sure it would be a nice walkaround kit. Sadly the S1R does not take Delta 100 or Ektachrome, so...it's mostly going to scan said films. I will be shooting it at a wedding in a couple weeks however, so it'll be interesting to see how it does.

    The sensor has some specks on it though, I ordered a cleaning kit. *shrug*
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  6. #256
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Here is my feedback after using the S1r now for some months...
    Overall it works quite well, the IQ I am satisfied. Noise can sometimes become obvious when bringing up shaddows, so exact exposure and trying to keep ISO 1600 and below. IBIS helps.
    While I get along fine with UI I am still more used to the SL interface philosophy, with reduced numbers of buttons. The S1r has way more buttons than I need. The viewfinder I really like. C-AF, like the SL, is dissappointing IMO and has nothing to do with a professional camera.
    At the moment I use the 16-35, and 50 and 75 SL-Summicrons. If I want lighter and a flexible kit I also use the 24-105 specially during vacations. The 24-105 does quite well, I still give the edge to the Leica lenses in regards of color rendering, 3-d look and sometimes the 24-105 can show a funky bokeh (only sometimes, I assume its a question of distance and f-stop).
    The IQ specially with the Summicrons is very much to my taste, I even would say one step closer to medium format look. 2 downsides of those Leica lenses are price and weight. But I can live with the weight and price... I see it as a long term buy.
    I might go "back" to the SL2 body if it will fit my expectations because the light user interface of Leica is more suited to my working style plus here and then I might want to use an M lens.
    In regards of body size...I think with the Summicrons or M lenses the SL is prefered size, for the larger lenses (like the zooms or the 50/1.4) the S1(r) body size balances quite well.
    Overall I think the S1(r) is really a very good body.
    Last edited by Paratom; 1 Week Ago at 08:44.
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    Re: General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

    Received the S Pro 50/1.4. It's a remarkable piece of glass. The AF is much faster than I expected in certain modes, but like others have suggested it is just weird in C AF. Can't trust the zone AF as far as I can tell.

    I do wish it had a little extra mojo like 1.2, or was a 55 or 58.

    I get why they're releasing zooms, but man it hurts to have no compact primes. Might just have to suck it up and get the Sigma 35/1.2 and deal with the size.

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