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General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

ptomsu

ptomsu

Workshop Member
iiiNelson said:
Hands-on test by B&H Photo. In the video they use it with the Panasonic lenses, Leica SL lenses, and a Leica M lens.

https://youtu.be/tbLcTUBnMaw
Click to expand...
Just another stunning review IMHO!

I see this camera (system) as what I might finally end up after I made my mind up about what FF mirrorless to go. One of the most appealing things for me is the native support of Leica lenses (M and SL).
 
iiiNelson

iiiNelson

Well-known member
ptomsu said:
Just another stunning review IMHO!

I see this camera (system) as what I might finally end up after I made my mind up about what FF mirrorless to go. One of the most appealing things for me is the native support of Leica lenses (M and SL).
Click to expand...
Yeah it looks good but I’m still hesitant about it until I actually get one to test out and try for myself. I like so much about it of the surface (great lenses, great high ISO, seemingly great body design, etc.) but I’m really concerned that most reviews/previews/hands-on test consistently mention they’d like to see PDAF added in a future camera and that continuous AF doesn’t work as well as single point. This is the same concern that I have with the Micro 4/3 cameras and I don’t know how much future firmware can/will improve it.

Regarding Leica M lenses... I’m almost certain Panasonic is doing the “heaviest lifting” for the Leica SL so they may know how the sensor needs to be designed to work with M glass... but I’m not sure that it’ll be superior to L-Mount glass to begin with.
 
ptomsu

ptomsu

Workshop Member
iiiNelson said:
Yeah it looks good but I’m still hesitant about it until I actually get one to test out and try for myself. I like so much about it of the surface (great lenses, great high ISO, seemingly great body design, etc.) but I’m really concerned that most reviews/previews/hands-on test consistently mention they’d like to see PDAF added in a future camera and that continuous AF doesn’t work as well as single point. This is the same concern that I have with the Micro 4/3 cameras and I don’t know how much future firmware can/will improve it.

Regarding Leica M lenses... I’m almost certain Panasonic is doing the “heaviest lifting” for the Leica SL so they may know how the sensor needs to be designed to work with M glass... but I’m not sure that it’ll be superior to L-Mount glass to begin with.
Click to expand...
Agree with the concerns about AF.

WRT M lenses - the M will always be the best camera for using M glass as it is natively designed for that purpose :thumbup:
 
iiiNelson

iiiNelson

Well-known member
ptomsu said:
Agree with the concerns about AF.

WRT M lenses - the M will always be the best camera for using M glass as it is natively designed for that purpose :thumbup:
Click to expand...
I don’t disagree with you but there are non-Leica M lenses that work reasonably well with most cameras too. In any case I dumped most of my M-mount lenses years ago so it’s really not the biggest concern for me personally. I believe the L-Mount glass will likely surpass the M glass optically but at the expense of size.
 
P

Paratom

Well-known member
What you think about the user interface. To me it looks a little overloaded with buttons.
I hope Leica is coming out with an anoouncement of the SLII soon to be able to compare before jumping on a new body.
 
iiiNelson

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Paratom said:
What you think about the user interface. To me it looks a little overloaded with buttons.
I hope Leica is coming out with an anoouncement of the SLII soon to be able to compare before jumping on a new body.
Click to expand...
Personally, I think the button layout (and the body in general) is close to perfect and I find the SL to be a little to spartan for me. I understand how/why some love the SL layout but it’s a bit too simplistic for me for what I’m used to. I like simple in the M but I think this is close to ideal to me for a “workhorse”
camera.
 
ptomsu

ptomsu

Workshop Member
One general opinion is building up for me - based on several different reviews and videos about these cameras and lenses (to be expected):

This is getting a pretty large and heavy system!

This has nothing to do with quality in any respect that could be expected, but for me, as a non professional user (and I think there are many other non professional users out there) this system is getting far too much and heavy and large - at least for my purposes. I cannot see myself carrying a S1/S1R with a 1.4/50 and even a 4/70-200 around on vacation or somewhere in a city and for studio alone I would rent such equipment. Actually this seems to be so large and heavy that even MFD - looking at you Fuji - is not much heavier and larger if at all.

What I want to say, it is slowly turning out that this type of system is not for me simply because of size and weight, as are many other newly released FF mirrorless systems as well - with the exception of Nikon. So I have great hopes in what Nikon brings around their Z-mount in the coming years and as a second option Fuji X-system is getting more interesting again - as maybe the one and only system I would need.
 
iiiNelson

iiiNelson

Well-known member
ptomsu said:
One general opinion is building up for me - based on several different reviews and videos about these cameras and lenses (to be expected):

This is getting a pretty large and heavy system!

This has nothing to do with quality in any respect that could be expected, but for me, as a non professional user (and I think there are many other non professional users out there) this system is getting far too much and heavy and large - at least for my purposes. I cannot see myself carrying a S1/S1R with a 1.4/50 and even a 4/70-200 around on vacation or somewhere in a city and for studio alone I would rent such equipment. Actually this seems to be so large and heavy that even MFD - looking at you Fuji - is not much heavier and larger if at all.

What I want to say, it is slowly turning out that this type of system is not for me simply because of size and weight, as are many other newly released FF mirrorless systems as well - with the exception of Nikon. So I have great hopes in what Nikon brings around their Z-mount in the coming years and as a second option Fuji X-system is getting more interesting again - as maybe the one and only system I would need.
Click to expand...
Well I’ll say this. Looking at the announced lenses and the body alone the camera does appear to be large. When you look at it next to a G9 then it’s only slightly larger until to factor in the lens sizes. I think that is where Panasonic is accounting in increasing size to balance ergonomics with fast lenses. If a person is going to stick with f/1.8 primes and f/4 zooms or slower then the smaller size of the Sony (sans grip) or the Nikon are fine. If a person wants f/1.4 or faster primes and f/2.8 or faster zooms then the Panasonic, Canon, or Sony with grip makes a lot of sense IMO. If a person is concerned about size I’d still argue the Fuji X might be the best of all worlds (balance of size, native lens options, speed) but make no mistake - despite Nikon’s claim of having great ergonomics the Z is nearly the same size as the Sony (my pinky and partner of my ring finger hang off) and the grip isn’t all that different in hand for me... plus their native lenses are larger compared to other lenses with the same apertures (for instance compare their 50/1.8 to the Sony 55/1.8) on account of having a larger mount.

The Fuji GFX 50S is pretty balanced and light. Looking solely at mass doesn’t tell the whole story and Ted Forbes touched on this in his recent LUMIX S impressions where he felt the Panasonic was much lighter than the Leica SL due to ergonomic design. Outside of the 110/2, the GFX the lenses are medium speed or slow apertures to balance the size to the body. I’m not making the decision for you but I’d wait until you can try them all for yourself next to each other and there’s a good chance we will see cheaper and slower native primes down the line too. What I’ve noticed in the last 5 years or so is that high resolving sensors require larger lenses to get the performance wanted.

The Panasonic 50/1.4 is about the size of the 55/1.4 Otus lens but with AF... perhaps we will see f/2 primes released that’ll be cheaper than the Leica ones but this is an expensive system designed for pro use from the ground up. For casual use and travel your Olympus seems to be up to the challenge and also lacks the size. Maybe just love what you have.

Ted Forbes hands-on impressions

https://youtu.be/F3jv_6Ahyb8
 
ptomsu

ptomsu

Workshop Member
iiiNelson said:
Well I’ll say this. Looking at the announced lenses and the body alone the camera does appear to be large. When you look at it next to a G9 then it’s only slightly larger until to factor in the lens sizes. I think that is where Panasonic is accounting in increasing size to balance ergonomics with fast lenses. If a person is going to stick with f/1.8 primes and f/4 zooms or slower then the smaller size of the Sony (sans grip) or the Nikon are fine. If a person wants f/1.4 or faster primes and f/2.8 or faster zooms then the Panasonic, Canon, or Sony with grip makes a lot of sense IMO. If a person is concerned about size I’d still argue the Fuji X might be the best of all worlds (balance of size, native lens options, speed) but make no mistake - despite Nikon’s claim of having great ergonomics the Z is nearly the same size as the Sony (my pinky and partner of my ring finger hang off) and the grip isn’t all that different in hand for me... plus their native lenses are larger compared to other lenses with the same apertures (for instance compare their 50/1.8 to the Sony 55/1.8) on account of having a larger mount.

The Fuji GFX 50S is pretty balanced and light. Looking solely at mass doesn’t tell the whole story and Ted Forbes touched on this in his recent LUMIX S impressions where he felt the Panasonic was much lighter than the Leica SL due to ergonomic design. Outside of the 110/2, the GFX the lenses are medium speed or slow apertures to balance the size to the body. I’m not making the decision for you but I’d wait until you can try them all for yourself next to each other and there’s a good chance we will see cheaper and slower native primes down the line too. What I’ve noticed in the last 5 years or so is that high resolving sensors require larger lenses to get the performance wanted.

The Panasonic 50/1.4 is about the size of the 55/1.4 Otus lens but with AF... perhaps we will see f/2 primes released that’ll be cheaper than the Leica ones but this is an expensive system designed for pro use from the ground up. For casual use and travel your Olympus seems to be up to the challenge and also lacks the size. Maybe just love what you have.

Ted Forbes hands-on impressions

https://youtu.be/F3jv_6Ahyb8
Click to expand...
I hear you and I also want to really love this system, as when ignoring weight and size all seems to be pretty perfect. Only I can no more see myself schlepping such heavy and large gear around for general photography. I do this mainly for fun now and to have some personal memories, but no more for selling photos or impressing clients.

For me the Z-system looks much more suitable and I guess also the most new S-lenses are shape-friendlier for my eyes - especially that new 2.8/24-70. We will see how that continues as soon as some Z Pro bodies are released.

Anyway I do not find that any FF mirrorless system brings much advantage to my type of photography and I cannot stop thinking that the Fuji X system would (again) be the best fit for me WRT size, weight, lens choices, functionality also and foremost video and finally price. I am no longer up to spending 5k on a camera body and one prime lens if I can have comparable quality and results for me with much less money.

And WRT m43 (Olympus) - I love that system but meanwhile I miss my Fuji X-system so much that I think I would overall be much happier with Fuji. Especially as soon as the X-H2 will arrive. Maybe then it is time to call it a day and jump ships. Although I fear that prices for used Olympus will further go down so I might still keep all I have and just ADD Fuji. Or maybe FF mirrorless, but from the current perspective FF mirrorless gets more unattractive every day/week, whereas Fuji X gets VERY attractive :thumbs:
 
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