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General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

Paratom

Well-known member
The Leica Summicrons are a nice size and handle just fine.
I am not concerned regarding body size, I think the question is lens size.
On the other side: How many lenses does one have to carry around as an amateur. Maybe just a 24-105 or Leica 24-90 during day.
And while the f1.4/50 from Pana and Leica are big - they are also fully usable at f1.4. Why owning a compact f1.4 lens which is so soft at f1.4 than one does stop it down to f2.0 anyways. However I would prefer what Nikon does, f1.8, therefore smaller and still very good.

I guess the big lenses are also the "price" for high resolution sensors with high pixel density. Thats probably also the reason why Fuji added medium format to their dx-sized camers, and Pana FF to m43 - maybe the pixel density has reached the limits and the lenses become the weak point. So either use larger sensors or improve optical quality which can mean big sized lens and weight.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
The Leica Summicrons are a nice size and handle just fine.
I am not concerned regarding body size, I think the question is lens size.
On the other side: How many lenses does one have to carry around as an amateur. Maybe just a 24-105 or Leica 24-90 during day.
And while the f1.4/50 from Pana and Leica are big - they are also fully usable at f1.4. Why owning a compact f1.4 lens which is so soft at f1.4 than one does stop it down to f2.0 anyways. However I would prefer what Nikon does, f1.8, therefore smaller and still very good.

I guess the big lenses are also the "price" for high resolution sensors with high pixel density. Thats probably also the reason why Fuji added medium format to their dx-sized camers, and Pana FF to m43 - maybe the pixel density has reached the limits and the lenses become the weak point. So either use larger sensors or improve optical quality which can mean big sized lens and weight.
Maybe I will only need just one high speed lens. Maybe for the Z-system that could be the 1.2/50. And the rest just zooms, either 4 or 2.8.

What I really would need would be a native 80-400 or similar. Maybe the first vendor who brings such a lens (except Sony) would determine my future FF mirrorless system, it is as easy :D
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Maybe I will only need just one high speed lens. Maybe for the Z-system that could be the 1.2/50. And the rest just zooms, either 4 or 2.8.

What I really would need would be a native 80-400 or similar. Maybe the first vendor who brings such a lens (except Sony) would determine my future FF mirrorless system, it is as easy :D
Well that’s where I say Fuji makes a lot of sense for the non-professional that wants to get in the ballpark. Video and photo features are there with the XT3. IBIS will be there in the XH bodies of you need it but it likely won’t come until 2020. The lens lineup is already there and there’s no need to wait around. For the amateur or hobbyist - the S1 with the 24-105 and 70-200 will do most of what most people need... the Fuji 16-55 and 50-140 accomplishes the same things for about half the price and comparable depth of field.

The new Nikon Z 24-70/2.8 has a 82mm filter thread so it’s largely the same size as pro DSLR/Mirrorless lenses with worse ergonomics since there’s no vertical battery grip announced for the current bodies... I’m not sure that gets you where you want to go size wise since it’s a concern. Olympus is going to lose value if you don’t sell but you can’t get the focal length equivalents in any other system for being that small if that’s a priority.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Well that’s where I say Fuji makes a lot of sense for the non-professional that wants to get in the ballpark. Video and photo features are there with the XT3. IBIS will be there in the XH bodies of you need it but it likely won’t come until 2020. The lens lineup is already there and there’s no need to wait around. For the amateur or hobbyist - the S1 with the 24-105 and 70-200 will do most of what most people need... the Fuji 16-55 and 50-140 accomplishes the same things for about half the price and comparable depth of field.

The new Nikon Z 24-70/2.8 has a 82mm filter thread so it’s largely the same size as pro DSLR/Mirrorless lenses with worse ergonomics since there’s no vertical battery grip announced for the current bodies... I’m not sure that gets you where you want to go size wise since it’s a concern. Olympus is going to lose value if you don’t sell but you can’t get the focal length equivalents in any other system for being that small if that’s a priority.
Let's say that my heart seems to be rather with Fuji and Nikon as opposed to Olympus :cool: There are no other rational thoughts behind that, this is just purely based on my heart.

WRT selling Olympus - this is already now less (far less) than 50% of new, so I most probably will keep this system just to satisfy my extreme tele lens desires :toocool:
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
The Leica Summicrons are a nice size and handle just fine.
I am not concerned regarding body size, I think the question is lens size.
On the other side: How many lenses does one have to carry around as an amateur. Maybe just a 24-105 or Leica 24-90 during day.
And while the f1.4/50 from Pana and Leica are big - they are also fully usable at f1.4. Why owning a compact f1.4 lens which is so soft at f1.4 than one does stop it down to f2.0 anyways. However I would prefer what Nikon does, f1.8, therefore smaller and still very good.

I guess the big lenses are also the "price" for high resolution sensors with high pixel density. Thats probably also the reason why Fuji added medium format to their dx-sized camers, and Pana FF to m43 - maybe the pixel density has reached the limits and the lenses become the weak point. So either use larger sensors or improve optical quality which can mean big sized lens and weight.
I believe most premium modern prime lenses designed to resolve on high megapixel sensors from every brand imaginable are very good to excellent wide open or stopped down. Some are better than others for sure but at that level it comes down to nitpicking in all reality.

I agree that a general purpose zoom, telephoto zoom, and midrange medium to fast prime in the 28-55mm focal length would suit the needs of most hobbyists. I also agree that most cameras are good enough that they aren’t the limiting factor though they can be a subjective one. I really haven’t found a camera that I’ve used for a good amount of time that I hadn’t been able to get the shot with but I definitely have more preferences between what I like to use, what makes it easier to work with, what’s the fastest to use, and if I wasn’t under constraints what I’d prefer to use on vacation. They’re a not always the same.

I think Panasonic built the ideal pro body for me (sans hybrid AF) in the LUMIX S while still having great options in Micro 4/3 for those concerned with size. In many regards I think Sony builds the best hybrid photo/video bodies. If a person wanted a small FF system I think Sony is hard to beat and they have small primes and zooms to go along with pro level primes and zooms. Canon RF has possibly the most interesting lens lineup and the most uninspiring bodies available amongst the FF systems. Nikon is doing something different than they have but I’m not quite sure of their direction either. Leica seems to have strengthened through partnerships. Olympus has reinforced that they aren’t a brand for me. Fuji is doing great things too and they’re still a contender for me despite having an overly passionate user base.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Let's say that my heart seems to be rather with Fuji and Nikon as opposed to Olympus :cool: There are no other rational thoughts behind that, this is just purely based on my heart.

WRT selling Olympus - this is already now less (far less) than 50% of new, so I most probably will keep this system just to satisfy my extreme tele lens desires :toocool:
Nope I understand that. If money were no object (and I didn’t have other priorities) I likely would buy a M10-P... but the value proposition isn’t remotely there for me.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
...
On the other side: How many lenses does one have to carry around as an amateur. Maybe just a 24-105 or Leica 24-90 during day. ...
When I had the SL, and now with the CL, I have often spent a couple of weeks walking about with just a Summilux-R 50mm f/1.4 or Pentax-L 43mm f/1.9 Limited. I get my best pictures that way.

After I retired, I decided that carrying the SL zooms around was simply too much, far more than I needed for anything. They are magnificent performers, but if they're not what I need, it's stupid to lug them around and admire how good they are if I were to use them.

:D

G
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Let's say that my heart seems to be rather with Fuji and Nikon as opposed to Olympus :cool: There are no other rational thoughts behind that, this is just purely based on my heart. ...
Opposite for me. After owning and using Nikon SLR gear for thirty-plus years, very few of their modern offerings have any interest for me. I still have difficulties trying to think of selling my E-1, E-M1, and the magnificent Olympus pro-grade lenses I have for them. Even if I haven't used the cameras or lenses for a year or more...!

Fuji digital... I have no use for whatever. Just bought a lovely, clean Fuji GS645S Wide 60, however. I'll have it serviced before I use it—it's been sitting a long time—but I've been more excited by that than by any of the new Fuji digital cameras at all. :D

G
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Panasonic released the new LUMIX Sync app.

A couple of neat features I noticed in it including the ability to sync camera settings to the phone and be copied to extra bodies and the ability to use your iPhone/iPad to GPS tag picture metadata automatically.
 

jdphoto

Well-known member
My dealer has an S1 and says the AF is really snappy. I'm interested in how the EVF compares to the Nikon Z. I've used plenty of mirrorless and so far, the best have been the Q and Nikon Z. Interestingly, the Fuji XH1 was my least favorite even though the mp's are similar.
 
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iiiNelson

Well-known member
My dealer has an S1 and says the AF is really snappy. I'm interested in how the EVF compares to the Nikon Z. I've used plenty of mirrorless and so far, the best have been the Q and Nikon Z. Interestingly, the Fuji XH1 with was my least favorite even though the mp's are similar.
Maybe im not as sensitive as some people are to EVF’s but I really didn’t see all that much difference between the Z, EOS R, GFX, XT3, XH1, or A7RIII/A9 EVF’s... and frankly I still find that many of the older ones are still fine too. I tried the SL a few years ago at the DC Leica store and it was nice but it wasn’t as “earth shattering” for me as what some people have claimed. It was clearly the best EVF (at the time) but I never found any of older ones to prevent me from taking/making shots either even going back to he Panasonic G1.

Regarding the autofocus for photography it appears to be some of the snappiest autofocus on the market. Clearly a step behind the best Mirrorless and DOSR’s in difficult situations but still better than most cameras too. Continuous is greatly improved above the Micro 4/3 cameras too and the “wobbling” effect seems to be minimized.

Heres a couple of direct tests against the Z6

https://youtu.be/8bX9kFaJhjA

https://youtu.be/Z8lZgPimNjI
 

jdphoto

Well-known member
Maybe im not as sensitive as some people are to EVF’s but I really didn’t see all that much difference between the Z, EOS R, GFX, XT3, XH1, or A7RIII/A9 EVF’s... and frankly I still find that many of the older ones are still fine too. I tried the SL a few years ago at the DC Leica store and it was nice but it wasn’t as “earth shattering” for me as what some people have claimed. It was clearly the best EVF (at the time) but I never found any of older ones to prevent me from taking/making shots either even going back to he Panasonic G1.

Regarding the autofocus for photography it appears to be some of the snappiest autofocus on the market. Clearly a step behind the best Mirrorless and DOSR’s in difficult situations but still better than most cameras too. Continuous is greatly improved above the Micro 4/3 cameras too and the “wobbling” effect seems to be minimized.

Heres a couple of direct tests against the Z6

https://youtu.be/8bX9kFaJhjA

https://youtu.be/Z8lZgPimNjI
For me, it was a "TV monitor" effect that I hated, especially in bright ambient light or night shooting. I hated the Leica CL's EVF in bright ambient too. The Z's seem to be more organic when shooting outdoors, but I guess any EVF at night is crappy.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
For me, it was a "TV monitor" effect that I hated, especially in bright ambient light or night shooting. I hated the Leica CL's EVF in bright ambient too. The Z's seem to be more organic when shooting outdoors, but I guess any EVF at night is crappy.
Yeah. I guess I just don’t notice it to the point of it bothering me. What it sounds like you’re describing is light frequency flicker and most cameras have a setting for that. It just may not be on by default. I know in Sony cameras, some of the EVF high performance settings are off by default and I suspect much of this has to do with them earning a higher battery CIPA rating. In any case anti-flickering can be turned on if needed in all of the newest cameras I believe.

I’m thankful I don’t have those issues because I strongly prefer EVF’s in pretty much every way though I still use OVF’s with my film cameras.
 
Where are all the reviews? These are in stock with most dealers now.
What are the chances of a negative review? Reviewers will be falling all over themselves to see who can come up with the most superlatives. Wait a while for comments on the forums from actual users before deciding whether or not to take the plunge. Besides, the only Panasonic lenses currently available are the 24-105 f4 and 70-200 f4. The 50 f1.4 is a preorder (and costs a fortune). The Sigmas are preorder too. I suppose someone may put a Leica L lens on a Panasonic but I bet most will just wait for the SL2.
 
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