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General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Honestly, what images can he make with the S1R that he can't make with the D850? The only reason it occurs to me such a wholesale shift is warranted is if you want to use Leica SL lenses exclusively. All the Sigma lenses are available in Nikon mount. And Panasonic just offers two f/4 zooms and a 50mm prime. Maybe in a couple of years when they have their lens line fleshed out. This is just GAS.
Honestly there are plenty of reasons - I don't know the reasons for him but for me the main reasons are that the D850 is primarily designed as a still camera and using it for video is really cumbersome and IMO does not come close to what the S1R offers (AF, EVF, profiles, etc.). Further IBIS as well as High Res mode are some more important reason.

He actually says it quite open somewhere in his video - the D850 is old technology versus the S1R being built around new innovative technology - and this is true also for me - just have a look over the past 5-6 years in several threads here on GetDPI where I was asking and waiting for a mirrorless camera from Nikon. Well it came but too late for me as now I am no longer invested in that Nikon system and can start from scratch. I would have to be crazy to invest today in a Nikon F mount based system :ROTFL: and before investing in the Nikon Z system I definitely am looking carefully around what else is on the market and expected in the future. And WRT Sigma lenses for Nikon - wh in all the world should I buy Sigma lenses and adapt them to what else system if I can soon buy native L-mount Sigma lenses! And by end of this year or next year there will be already more than 40 L-mount lenses available - how many for the Z-mount?

I could go on and on and on ... So it is pretty obvious - battle won and victory declared!
 
I was questioning his rationale for abandoning his Nikon D850 and lenses for the S1R, not yours for buying into it. If I am not mistaken, you are moving from m43 to FF and so have a clean slate.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
That 50mm seems to be one of the best reasons to buy the S1/R:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDYT2FZtkok

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ejy8-bl3QSQ

As for the comparison with the D850... no, there's no 50mm like this available in F-mount, and that viewfinder seems to be really good.

There are good arguments for electronic as well as optical viewfinders. Darry Carey has apparently made his choice. I'm a bit more mixed about this, but I understand his choice. The S1R seems to be an outstanding camera. I'll try it in a few days.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I was questioning his rationale for abandoning his Nikon D850 and lenses for the S1R, not yours for buying into it. If I am not mistaken, you are moving from m43 to FF and so have a clean slate.
Even if I would not move from m43 to FF (which is not a done deal for the moment as I tried to explain - but maybe I was not clear enough) but even if I was invested in any DSLR based FF camera system, the rationals for me would be much the same. So to make it easier - even if I shot a D850 still today and had not bought into Nikon Z till now I could easily see myself moving into the L-mount alliance with a Panasonic S1/S1R. To be even more clear I would not hesitate to sell of all my F-mount glass ASAP as long as I could get some decent money out of this and finance the new L-mount system. I hope that helps :cool:
 
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Paratom

Well-known member
If I didnt have any SL lenses yet I would maybe prefer the Nikon Z6/Z7 way. The size/quality compomise of the Nikon f1.8 primes (35 and 50 and others to come) makes it a more compact and affordable system. Also the 24-70 is a nice compact lens.

I did however decide to stay with the SL/Pana system, because I allready own some really nice lenses, and I find it a little easier to get the color right with the SL/Pana.
Also the S1(r) body really feels substantial in the hand.

Anybody thinking about a complete switch I would recommend to try both systems before buying.
 
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iiiNelson

Well-known member
If I didnt have any SL lenses yet I would maybe prefer the Nikon Z6/Z7 way. The size/quality compomise of the Nikon f1.8 primes (35 and 50 and others to come) makes it a more compact and affordable system. Also the 24-70 is a nice compact lens.

I did however decide to stay with the SL/Pana system, because I allready own some really nice lenses, and I find it a little easier to get the color right with the SL/Pana.
Also the S1(r) body really feels substantial in the hand.

Anybody thinking about a complete switch I would recommend to try both systems before buying.
Well I did try out the Nikon and Canon systems and I didn’t care greatly for either one. Canon has some compelling lens designs for photographic purposes and uninspired bodies as of today. With the Nikon I didn’t see the advantage over my existing Sony unless you were an existing Nikon user. The lenses are comparatively larger than the Sony lenses due to the wider mount. Depending on which white paper people choose to believe there’s a point of diminishing returns once the mount goes beyond a certain point - as such Leica believe the sweet spot was their 50.6mm diameter... but that’s a discussion for another day. I will say that every system has capable lenses. The Sony lenses rate well on the charts, Leica has earned their reputation, and the same can be said about Canon/Nikon.

I do agree with your point in trying out all of the systems. We all have subjective viewpoints that influence or are influenced by our workflow.

Depending on volume of sales I wouldn’t be surprised to see a price drop on the S1R sooner rather than later. Seems like the A7RIII and now the Z7 are being offered in the $2700 range give or take more frequently than not. I suspect that the S1R will be a harder sale to all except existing L-Mount users when it’s going for $1k more than the competition. I don’t think it’ll be a drastic price cut but I wouldn’t be surprised if within 3-6 months they’re going for $3500 with either a grip and/or spare battery included to sweeten the deal. I’d say lenses were an issue but no one other than Sony has a larger native lens lineup as of today.
 
I’d say lenses were an issue but no one other than Sony has a larger native lens lineup as of today.
There are three Panasonic lenses plus the Leica lenses at $5000 a pop. The Sigma L mount lenses aren't available yet. If you are a current SL user looking for a 47MP body for your Leica SL lenses, the the S1R is certainly the choice, at least until the SL2 is announced. Seems like a small niche of photographers until Panasonic develops the lens line. Replacing your current camera system with an S1/S1R seems premature.
 
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iiiNelson

Well-known member
There are three Panasonic lenses plus the Leica lenses at $5000 a pop. The Sigma L mount lenses aren't available yet. If you are a current SL user looking for a 47MP body for your Leica SL lenses, the the S1R is certainly the choice, at least until the SL2 is announced. Seems like a small niche of photographers until Panasonic develops the lens line. Is there a road map? I may not be following it as closely as I should.
Google is your friend (if you choose to use it) but most of it has all been posted here...

I didn't mention price of lenses for a reason. I think it’s a factor in who chooses this system but it’s not like the best Canon or Nikon lenses are cheap either. In most cases though the lenses that the pro market will be after are going to be in the $1-3k range... unless you shoot sports and in that case Leica lenses aren’t quite so expensive in comparison. Sigma will have 11-14 lenses (with 2-3 being designed exclusively for Mirrorless) by the end of the year but neither Canon or Nikon have the 11-14 lenses already available on L-mount from Leica and Panasonic.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
Sony has certainly a wide lens product range ready in regards of lenses for mirrorless. They have some years advantage.
On the other side, for my taste, the new bodies from Nikon (Z6/Z7) and Pana (S1(r)) and also the SL balance better with bigger lenses. And with growing resolution lenses seem to become bigger to fulfil the optic requirements.

As a SL user I do like the L-mount alliance. First some Pana lenses can complete the lens line-up (like the 70-200 as a lighter alternative to the 90-280 or also the 24-105 or 50/1.4 (for those who do not yet own the 50 SL lens).

There are not yet that many lenses available, but the ones available seem to be very good optical quality.
Nikon has the advantage to use the older lenses with the adapter in AF mode, but I think in a longer term one wants to use native lenses for the system anyways.
 
Google is your friend (if you choose to use it) but most of it has all been posted here...
Well, I see the f2.8 versions of the existing f4 zooms for 2019, and a super telephoto, a macro, and two unspecified primes for 2020. They don't seem to be in a big hurry. I imagine most will rely on the Sigma L-mount offerings when they become available later this year.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Sony has certainly a wide lens product range ready in regards of lenses for mirrorless. They have some years advantage.
On the other side, for my taste, the new bodies from Nikon (Z6/Z7) and Pana (S1(r)) and also the SL balance better with bigger lenses. And with growing resolution lenses seem to become bigger to fulfil the optic requirements.

As a SL user I do like the L-mount alliance. First some Pana lenses can complete the lens line-up (like the 70-200 as a lighter alternative to the 90-280 or also the 24-105 or 50/1.4 (for those who do not yet own the 50 SL lens).

There are not yet that many lenses available, but the ones available seem to be very good optical quality.
Nikon has the advantage to use the older lenses with the adapter in AF mode, but I think in a longer term one wants to use native lenses for the system anyways.
I’m a pretty large person (by conventional measures) and the reason I entertained the thought of the Canon and Nikon Mirrorless cameras was the marketing speak on them being larger cameras. I found that the Nikon is virtually the same size as the Sony cameras without the option for an external battery grip that I use almost exclusively on my Sony bodies. The Canon is a good size but I found that the grip design was one of the worst I’ve ever felt due to the straight lines inside of the grip. FWIW it’s the thing I also disliked about the ergonomics (or lack thereof) of the Leica SL. The Panasonic seems to look like it may be the best designed body. I’m not invested in any DSLR system so the requirement to adapt is lost on me right now.

The reality is that I can do most things with the LUMIX S and the 3 lenses they released given the lowlight ability of the S1 and the performance of the lenses. My biggest questions still come down to the AF speed in less than optimal conditions. One of the venues I shoot in can see changing light swing between ISO 2000 and 12800 if you remotely want to try to minimize motion blur on the dance floor. Part of the process to try to get photographs on the lower ISO range include timing focus for when the spot lights are in the area you want to photograph and pre-focusing the area to get in the neighborhood. I wonder if the Panasonic can be relied on to do this or if I’d need to manually zone focus and go about it that way.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Well, I see the f2.8 versions of the existing f4 zooms for 2019, and a super telephoto, a macro, and two unspecified primes for 2020. They don't seem to be in a big hurry. I imagine most will rely on the Sigma L-mount offerings when they become available later this year.
There are also 16-35/4 and teleconverters all by March 2020 if not sooner. I don’t know that they’re relying on Sigma by putting out 10 newly designed lenses within a year.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
With the 16-35, 24-90, 24-105, 70-200 and 90-280 all being excellent zooms with, a fast 50 either from Pana or Leica, 35/75/90 SL Summicrons one can build a pretty flexible kit. A large range with the zooms, 2 reference fast 50s, 2 good portrait lenses.
But its missing more specialized lenses like fast tele primes, or some faster wide primes for reasonable price.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
With the 16-35, 24-90, 24-105, 70-200 and 90-280 all being excellent zooms with, a fast 50 either from Pana or Leica, 35/75/90 SL Summicrons one can build a pretty flexible kit. A large range with the zooms, 2 reference fast 50s, 2 good portrait lenses.
But its missing more specialized lenses like fast tele primes, or some faster wide primes for reasonable price.
Yeah id probably stick to Panasonic (and maybe SOME Sigma lenses) with some select Leica lenses thrown in... namely the 35 or 90 APO-Cron... not much else announced or released from Leica interests me personally.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Only way to know for sure is to rent it and try. Not something I would want to rely on YouTube for.
Well I've said that repeatedly that I will have to rely on my own long term tests... I have nothing against people that make Youtube content. It has its uses. I won’t say that I agree with all of their opinions but it’s a frame of reference to consider in making a decision.
 
For multishot, does the camera combine the four shots into one file or do you rely on your editing program to do that? If the later, does LR Classic CC support that feature?
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
For multishot, does the camera combine the four shots into one file or do you rely on your editing program to do that? If the later, does LR Classic CC support that feature?
It’s actually 8 shots, and they are merged to a single RAW in camera.

Kind regards,

Gerald
 

Oren Grad

Active member
How does "Multi shot" work with astro or wind blown branches or leaves?
There are two different settings for S1/R high-resolution capture, with differences in how the multiple captures are processed to generate the raw file. Mode 1 is said to optimize resolution, while Mode 2 is said to trade off some resolution in order to minimize motion artifacts, but I don't know of any documentation that explains exactly what's different about the processing to achieve that.

So far, Lloyd Chambers is the only reviewer I've seen who has compared the two modes in the field and documented differences in results. He's been looking at things like moving leaves and water, AFAIK hasn't done any astro tests.
 
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