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General thoughts about S1 and/or S1R

jdphoto

Well-known member
So, with an exposure time of one second, couldn't just simply stitching images together work the same in any camera as the S1's multi shot?
 

Oren Grad

Active member
So, with an exposure time of one second, couldn't just simply stitching images together work the same in any camera as the S1's multi shot?
No. Stacking multiple exposures from a non-sensor-shift camera can match the noise improvement but not the extra resolution achieved via the shifting sensor of the S1/R. But the one-second limit will place some restrictions on the range of subjects to which you can usefully apply the Panasonic high-resolution mode.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
DXO Sensor results

S1

https://www.dxomark.com/panasonic-lumix-s1-sensor-review/

S1R

https://www.dxomark.com/panasonic-lumix-s1r-sensor-review/

Looks like both sensors are performing well (which we already knew/assumed) and are in line on paper with the competition. What I’ve always have been most impressed by is the color performance at higher ISO. These cameras seem to hold color longer and with better results than the competition and the tests mostly validate my assumptions that were based on what I’ve seen from these sensors.
 

Greg Haag

Well-known member
DXO Sensor results

S1

https://www.dxomark.com/panasonic-lumix-s1-sensor-review/

S1R

https://www.dxomark.com/panasonic-lumix-s1r-sensor-review/

Looks like both sensors are performing well (which we already knew/assumed) and are in line on paper with the competition. What I’ve always have been most impressed by is the color performance at higher ISO. These cameras seem to hold color longer and with better results than the competition and the tests mostly validate my assumptions that were based on what I’ve seen from these sensors.
What would be your thoughts on the S1R vs the new Fuji 100 megapixel? Is there enough difference that you would pick the Fuji if landscape photography is your primary use?
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
What would be your thoughts on the S1R vs the new Fuji 100 megapixel? Is there enough difference that you would pick the Fuji if landscape photography is your primary use?
Never handled the Fuji but I’d assume that it would beat the Panasonic. Larger sensor (70% larger), more color depth (16-bit vs 14-bit), more resolution (102 vs. 47). For pure landscape, it’ll almost certainly beat any 35mm based system. There a chance the autofocus will be more solid too in continuous tracking.
 

flash

New member
What would be your thoughts on the S1R vs the new Fuji 100 megapixel? Is there enough difference that you would pick the Fuji if landscape photography is your primary use?
If you print big or push your files heavily in post, yes. I can see the difference easily on the current 50mp sensors from my X1D/645Z. The new 100mp sensor is another small step again.

For web or screen viewing it's unlikely you'd see any difference except if you are on the extremes of dynamic range with the S1R.

Gordon
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Read it. Dpr used to be a rather terrible place except for the reviews. Now, the reviews are rather terrible too.

I've tried it. It's the best camera ever. No, I don't do sports. Yes, it's heavy. It's still the best.
I would be hard pressed to choose between the S1 and the Nikon Z6 especially after the recent FW upgrade on the Nikon that finally enables eye AF. The weakest point in Panasonic cameras is unfortunately still their AF system with DFD - lot of users have complained about this and it seems that it did not get better with the introduction of the S1/S1R. And yes, I am almost always using AFC nowadays - on my Olympus EM1.2 this is always on and never disappoints - so I am expecting similar performance from any other camera I use and this is pretty hard .....

While the S1's EVF has more resolution I am no longer sure I really need that because the Z6 EVF is already more than I could want for - but sure enough, more (MP) is always better.

One of the key use cases for me of a FF mirrorless camera is using my Leica M lenses and from what I have heard the Z6 and Z7 perform marvellously with that lenses, so while the S1 should not disappoint here the slightly more compact size and less weight of the Z series cameras makes for a better overall shooting experience in that case IMO.

WRT that review - I cannot see that it is bad, it is a typical and relatively neutral review from DPReview and the camera scores relatively high.

And yes I have tried both cameras and as I said I would not be sure if I would buy the S1 today or the Z6.
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I only use AF-S with Panasonic cameras. If something moves, I just jam the shutter release through. AF-S is that fast. No, I don't shoot bursts. There's only one decisive moment. Yes, I do miss sometimes, quite often actually, but there are other photos to be taken.

An EVF can never be too good. Most are bad, the one on the S1/R is quite good.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
I only use AF-S with Panasonic cameras. If something moves, I just jam the shutter release through. AF-S is that fast. No, I don't shoot bursts. There's only one decisive moment. Yes, I do miss sometimes, quite often actually, but there are other photos to be taken.

An EVF can never be too good. Most are bad, the one on the S1/R is quite good.
Well, as I said already I only (almost) use AFC since I acquired the EM1.2 and with the latest FW 3.0 update it became so fast and reliable that it is a no brainer to use in 98% of my shots.

WRT EVF you are right but I found the Z EVF to be VERY good and the differences be marginal to the S1/S1R.

The main advantage I see in the Z-series is they are built like tanks and still have a size I can call small, BUT also the new S lenses are pretty small compared to their other FF counterparts from Canon, Panasonic and even Sony. As I am getting older weight and size became very important for me and I definitely will not go back to something old school DSLR size. Which the lenses (and also the FF cameras) from Panasonic (and Sigma) tend to show. Yes they are great, superior maybe, but I would not be willing to lug that around anymore, in the Studio yes but then these occasions are meanwhile pretty seldom for me, so I rather prefer the size of the Nikon Z system.

Just have a look at the new Z 2.8/24-70 - this is a comparatively VERY small lens also paired with stellar IQ (several reviews out there) and if that new Z 2.8/70-200 has similar genes then I am hooked. But I am waiting for that new Z 80-400 (not announced yet) that would make my day for wildlife then. And the beautiful small Z 14-30.

So you see where I am coming from and I guess you as an "old" Nikon user can appreciate that :thumbs:
 

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
Thanks Peter for reminding me of the EM1.2 with the latest FW 3.0 update. :thumbup:
I should use it, now that I have updated the firmware! :facesmack: :shocked:
 

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Well, as I said already I only (almost) use AFC since I acquired the EM1.2 and with the latest FW 3.0 update it became so fast and reliable that it is a no brainer to use in 98% of my shots.

WRT EVF you are right but I found the Z EVF to be VERY good and the differences be marginal to the S1/S1R.

The main advantage I see in the Z-series is they are built like tanks and still have a size I can call small, BUT also the new S lenses are pretty small compared to their other FF counterparts from Canon, Panasonic and even Sony. As I am getting older weight and size became very important for me and I definitely will not go back to something old school DSLR size. Which the lenses (and also the FF cameras) from Panasonic (and Sigma) tend to show. Yes they are great, superior maybe, but I would not be willing to lug that around anymore, in the Studio yes but then these occasions are meanwhile pretty seldom for me, so I rather prefer the size of the Nikon Z system.

Just have a look at the new Z 2.8/24-70 - this is a comparatively VERY small lens also paired with stellar IQ (several reviews out there) and if that new Z 2.8/70-200 has similar genes then I am hooked. But I am waiting for that new Z 80-400 (not announced yet) that would make my day for wildlife then. And the beautiful small Z 14-30.

So you see where I am coming from and I guess you as an "old" Nikon user can appreciate that :thumbs:
I agree about the size vs. quality of the Nikons. Functionality is good too. For travel, they would be better cameras than the Panasonics, not bigger than my MFT cameras.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Read it. Dpr used to be a rather terrible place except for the reviews. Now, the reviews are rather terrible too.

I've tried it. It's the best camera ever. No, I don't do sports. Yes, it's heavy. It's still the best.
Best camera ever is rather subjective opinion... but I have no doubt the Panasonic is really good as reflected by the rating. Perhaps there will come a day in the next few years where DFD isn’t a compromise but we aren’t quite there yet. It’s improved over the LUMIX G Cameras but there’s still a ways to go in the microprocessing and sensor readout speed for that day to come IMO. I’ve heard mixed things about the EVF and I think it comes down to how sensitive a person is to EVF’s. I can notice a difference in them but none of them have really bothered me enough to not prefer them over the last 10 years. So I place the EVF in the LUMIX S in the “nice to have” category. I know it’s a key feature for many, I suspect it’ll be in most new premium cameras, but it’s not a make or break feature for me.

I do care about AF performance for a professional workhorse though and that’s really the only weak point I see in this camera. Everything else is good enough IMO from my viewpoint. I think the review reflected that. When it comes to price that’s a real factor now that the competition has been out for awhile now and that Canon, Nikon, and Sony have better recognition/support. I fear these cameras aren’t moving extremely well as I’ve never seen them out of stock or backordered from launch. There was a time where the Sony, Nikon, and even Canon were hard to get for the first 1-6 months without preordering or placing a deposit. I don’t want to see Panasonic fail but unless there’s a price cut to the bodies and have more attainable lenses for the masses, I think they’ll suffer from people dipping their toes in the water then have the bodies wind up on eBay or Craigslist. I’ve seen that a lot on groups I frequent where people are judging the camera solely using adapted lenses and never investing into native lenses. The performance is a little underwhelming to the end user then they jump ship to another brand and have a “revelation.”

In any case though I’m with Peter in that AFC needs to be improved in video. In photography it’s probably good enough.
 

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Best camera ever is rather subjective opinion... but I have no doubt the Panasonic is really good as reflected by the rating. Perhaps there will come a day in the next few years where DFD isn’t a compromise but we aren’t quite there yet. It’s improved over the LUMIX G Cameras but there’s still a ways to go in the microprocessing and sensor readout speed for that day to come IMO. I’ve heard mixed things about the EVF and I think it comes down to how sensitive a person is to EVF’s. I can notice a difference in them but none of them have really bothered me enough to not prefer them over the last 10 years. So I place the EVF in the LUMIX S in the “nice to have” category. I know it’s a key feature for many, I suspect it’ll be in most new premium cameras, but it’s not a make or break feature for me.

I do care about AF performance for a professional workhorse though and that’s really the only weak point I see in this camera. Everything else is good enough IMO from my viewpoint. I think the review reflected that. When it comes to price that’s a real factor now that the competition has been out for awhile now and that Canon, Nikon, and Sony have better recognition/support. I fear these cameras aren’t moving extremely well as I’ve never seen them out of stock or backordered from launch. There was a time where the Sony, Nikon, and even Canon were hard to get for the first 1-6 months without preordering or placing a deposit. I don’t want to see Panasonic fail but unless there’s a price cut to the bodies and have more attainable lenses for the masses, I think they’ll suffer from people dipping their toes in the water then have the bodies wind up on eBay or Craigslist. I’ve seen that a lot on groups I frequent where people are judging the camera solely using adapted lenses and never investing into native lenses. The performance is a little underwhelming to the end user then they jump ship to another brand and have a “revelation.”

In any case though I’m with Peter in that AFC needs to be improved in video. In photography it’s probably good enough.
DFD from what I know is equally good in both G series and S series cameras. EVF - nice to have 5.7MP, but I was shooting a Nikon Z6 and Z7 today in a test in Vienna and was pleasantly surprised! These EVFs are light years above the Olympus EM1.2 and EM1.X EVFs and I was never feeling disconnected in any form. I will show photos in the Nikon forum as soon as I manage to get the photos down to my MAC from the XQD card (the card reader I bought does unfortunately not work) but from what I could judge on the EFV and the LCD of the Z7 the results look stunning.

As said the big downside of the Panasonic's are the rather bulky and big size and weight for me (for some that might be a big plus though) and also the whole system (including lenses) is obviously getting heavy and large. I shot the new Nikon S 2.8/24-70 today almost exclusively and the size, weight and whole handling on the Z7 was absolutely great. And the optical quality is obviously second to none.

For me - and maybe only for me as I have not so much money left to jump ships too often in my retirement - from all I know and felt till today the Nikon Z system wins hands down! If I had the money to buy the Panasonic S and lenses and just switch if I do not like what so ever, then this would be my way to go, but from what I know today I put my eggs in the Nikon Z baket :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
There were several speed improvements made over the years with the LUMIX S. For one there are two quad core processors to do four times as many calculations with the DFD. So in direct comparison the S is much better than the G as the AF calculation frequency is much higher. On the older G Cameras the AF is hot or miss even in photography... in the S it’s more reliable but it’s no A9 (or even A7RIII) by any means.

In any case though it would probably work for most people but when you're paying a premium id have a hard time definitely choosing it for a workhorse until DFD is further improved to a negligible state of parity personally. We aren’t there yet but in time I do believe it’ll get there. Hopefully the cameras don’t fail commercially before we do though.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
From my perspective there are few real surprises today with the next NEW NEW gear . I had a S1R and used it exclusively with the Leica SL lenses ..mostly with the 50/1.4 SL Summilux . I did not use the pixel shifting multishot as I am not really a landscape /tripod shooter . The image quality produced by the sensor is terrific ..would you expect something different ?

Getting the aesthetic you prefer is about finding the lenses that match your vision . Having used Leica lenses extensively on a variety of different camera bodies (M,SL,S,Nikon D810 etc ) ..its the lens signature that matters . The sensor and more likely the in camera profiling and processing will greatly affect the contrast and color saturation . This along with the post processing results in the final aesthetic .

Panasonic has done a good job in setting up the S1R and the files produced have a very linear tone curve . I found them easy to adjust to taste . The more important issue regarding image quality would be “Are you going to buy the Leica Glass ? “ Its very expensive .

Right now at 47MP FF the S1R with the Leica SL prime lenses is the best available in a FF camera . I also have no doubt that several MF alternatives will be noticeably better .

I sent the S1R back to B&H because I did not enjoy the size, weight,handling,menu system or the very weak AF system ...but I have no doubts about the IQ.
 

alen

New member
:worthless:

Does anyone here actually own and shoot with these cameras (S1 and/or S1R). Five pages of "general thoughts" and few photos. Lloyd Chambers keeps raving about multi-shot high-res mode but I'd rather see the results from real photographers here on GetDPI.

Joe
Hi Joel, ive shared this elsewhere but I read this and thought Id share it here.

I did a very simple test of High Res mode (mode 1), taking a picture of my bookshelf.

NOTE:
1) you may need to open the images in a new tab to view at 100%
2) pay attention to the yellow DK cart label.

Full image:


100% crop comparison - HiRes vs Normal:
 
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