The GetDPI Photography Forum

Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!

My Take on the new Leica SL2

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
I have not been paid by Leica or wined and dined, flown to Germany or given any of the other goodies. I find this statement by Jono to leave me wondering EXACTLY what he means, (In more general terms I’ve found that the AF is very fast, and more importantly is very accurate, whichever mode you choose. It also works very well with the Panasonic and Sigma lenses I’ve tested with the SL2.) So you mean AF is very fast and accurate compared to what, Sony AF?..the reason I mention this is because no other reviews I’ve heard stated this and to me great to exceptionally good AF with a beast like this is mandatory.
How about:

Jono,

Have you compared the SL2 AF with other FF mirrorless like the Sony A7 or Nikon Z?

Thanks,



Might be worth a shot. :grin:
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
I have not been paid by Leica or wined and dined, flown to Germany or given any of the other goodies. I find this statement by Jono to leave me wondering EXACTLY what he means, (In more general terms I’ve found that the AF is very fast, and more importantly is very accurate, whichever mode you choose. It also works very well with the Panasonic and Sigma lenses I’ve tested with the SL2.) So you mean AF is very fast and accurate compared to what, Sony AF?..the reason I mention this is because no other reviews I’ve heard stated this and to me great to exceptionally good AF with a beast like this is mandatory.
There are videos comparing the S1/S1R Autofocus for photography to the Sony and Nikon in single point AF. In this mode (going by Panasonic performance that’s likely comparable to the performance to the SL2... though most reviews state the Panasonic is a bit better with their firmware updates) I’d assume the speed in comparable and more than sufficient for most.

Where CDAF based systems typically “fail” is in continuous AF/tracking. If this isn’t important to you then AF performance is likely going to be a non-issue. If it is then I’d gather that you’d find better performance in a camera that employs some form of hybrid (read: utilizing both PDAF and CDAF) AF system. I know you asked Jono this question but this is likely the most informed answer that someone can provide until the computing power and mathematical algorithm catches up in DFD/CDAF to what a PDAF based hybrid system can provide a user today. Even still, companies are constantly working to improve performance but there are some limitations right now.

That being said there are other benefits to the L-amount system but it’s somewhat unreasonable (price aside) to expect these cameras to stand up to an A9 (or even a A7III) if you require reliable continuous AF. That’s not what they’re designed for or what they can currently provide to an end user. Doesn’t make them bad but it does highlight an area it’s not strongly suited for.
 

jonoslack

Active member
I have not been paid by Leica or wined and dined, flown to Germany or given any of the other goodies. I find this statement by Jono to leave me wondering EXACTLY what he means, (In more general terms I’ve found that the AF is very fast, and more importantly is very accurate, whichever mode you choose. It also works very well with the Panasonic and Sigma lenses I’ve tested with the SL2.) So you mean AF is very fast and accurate compared to what, Sony AF?..the reason I mention this is because no other reviews I’ve heard stated this and to me great to exceptionally good AF with a beast like this is mandatory.

Hi There Bab.
I haven't compared it to the Sony or Nikon AF (I do have a Fuji X-T3), and I imagine that for continuous focus at least it isn't as good (no phase detect) - what I mean exactly is what I said - that I found it to be fast and accurate whichever mode I chose. both with the Panasonic 70-200 and the Sigma 14-24 and the Leica lenses I have on hand. I don't shoot sport or motocross however which is why I don't go into great detail about it.

By the way, Leica have never paid me or flown me to Germany (although I've certainly had a dinner or two when I've been out there). I do a lot of testing work for them (and it is a lot of work), and they do look after me, but there isn't a formal arrangement - but I say this in all the reviews.

Mind you - perfectly reasonable of you to bring it up as a means of questioning my believability.

all the best
 

jonoslack

Active member
There are videos comparing the S1/S1R Autofocus for photography to the Sony and Nikon in single point AF. In this mode (going by Panasonic performance that’s likely comparable to the performance to the SL2... though most reviews state the Panasonic is a bit better with their firmware updates) I’d assume the speed in comparable and more than sufficient for most.

Where CDAF based systems typically “fail” is in continuous AF/tracking. If this isn’t important to you then AF performance is likely going to be a non-issue. If it is then I’d gather that you’d find better performance in a camera that employs some form of hybrid (read: utilizing both PDAF and CDAF) AF system. I know you asked Jono this question but this is likely the most informed answer that someone can provide until the computing power and mathematical algorithm catches up in DFD/CDAF to what a PDAF based hybrid system can provide a user today. Even still, companies are constantly working to improve performance but there are some limitations right now.

That being said there are other benefits to the L-amount system but it’s somewhat unreasonable (price aside) to expect these cameras to stand up to an A9 (or even a A7III) if you require reliable continuous AF. That’s not what they’re designed for or what they can currently provide to an end user. Doesn’t make them bad but it does highlight an area it’s not strongly suited for.
Thank you - you put that very well
best
Jono
 
The several pictures taken with the Sigma Art 14-24 f2.8 renders nicely with smooth bokeh. An alternative to the
SUPER-VARIO-ELMAR-SL 16–35 f/3.5–4.5 ASPH.
 

iiiNelson

Well-known member
Thank you - you put that very well
best
Jono
No worries I’ve been interested in the L-Mount FF cameras for myself. Right now I’ve surmised that’s I can’t fully trust them yet for pro work that I do (much of it relies on lowlight continuous AF performance). I do think that I may want the Panasonic body for personal work because I’ve spent 5 years looking for a suitable replacement to my favorite 35mm ever (35/2 M Summicron). The 35/1.4 Sony Zeiss is excellent (albeit on the large side) but not quite to the level of the ‘Cron. I like much about the SL2 but I refuse to own a non-film camera without a tilting/articulating screen.
 

jonoslack

Active member
How about:

Jono,

Have you compared the SL2 AF with other FF mirrorless like the Sony A7 or Nikon Z?

Thanks,



Might be worth a shot. :grin:
Thank you Matt, but it's cool - he has a point, and I haven't done that - because my funds don't reach to such comparisons - and my photographic opportunities don't either - At any rate, I've answered, but I appreciate the remark - thank you!
 

Paratom

Well-known member
How about:

Jono,

Have you compared the SL2 AF with other FF mirrorless like the Sony A7 or Nikon Z?

Thanks,



Might be worth a shot. :grin:
I havent compared directly but I have owned an A7II some years ago, and tested a Z7 and owned a Z6 for some weeks and a S1r for some months.

Unscientific I think the Z6 has a little better C-AF than the SL(2) and S1r. In S-AF I find all those cams quite fast in S-AF, good for my kids at sports or my dog occasionally.

If one wants to shoot a lot of action and sports I assume the Sony A9 or a Nikon D5 or D1x.... would be the logical choice.
C-AF in contrast AF cams is still a compromise. On the other side speed and accurancy in S-AF is very good.
 

bab

Active member
I havent compared directly but I have owned an A7II some years ago, and tested a Z7 and owned a Z6 for some weeks and a S1r for some months.

Unscientific I think the Z6 has a little better C-AF than the SL(2) and S1r. In S-AF I find all those cams quite fast in S-AF, good for my kids at sports or my dog occasionally.

If one wants to shoot a lot of action and sports I assume the Sony A9 or a Nikon D5 or D1x.... would be the logical choice.
C-AF in contrast AF cams is still a compromise. On the other side speed and accurancy in S-AF is very good.
Fair enough answer I have been a Leica owner and enthusiast for almost 40 years, I love the simplicity of the equipment. As with most people the older we get the worst our eyes are at critical focusing. I have run some tests and besides the normal issues anyone would have due to vibration, shake, low s/s I found I can’t manually focus hand held to satisfy my needs. Therefore a camera must check that box for me, the only way I have been able to nail focus manually is by shooting rapid bursts adjusting my position ever so slightly with the front middle back method. What does appeal to me is the resolution of the viewfinder and back lcd. I think the IBIS will be one of the most appealing pro’s of the SL2!
Thanks
 

Robert Campbell

Well-known member
Fair enough answer I have been a Leica owner and enthusiast for almost 40 years, I love the simplicity of the equipment. As with most people the older we get the worst our eyes are at critical focusing. I have run some tests and besides the normal issues anyone would have due to vibration, shake, low s/s I found I can’t manually focus hand held to satisfy my needs. Therefore a camera must check that box for me, the only way I have been able to nail focus manually is by shooting rapid bursts adjusting my position ever so slightly with the front middle back method. What does appeal to me is the resolution of the viewfinder and back lcd. I think the IBIS will be one of the most appealing pro’s of the SL2!
Thanks
Ditto. I'm in a similar position. The IBIS is what could make it for me.
 

Paratom

Well-known member
IBIS, improved viewfinder, Leica simplicity in user interface, and good ability to use M lenses, ... and more important (IMO) quality of SL lenses... I am in ;)
and the body feels really good in my hands

most important: looks similar to SL - so I can smuggle it in my home without getting questions why I would need a new camera ;)
 

daf

Member
Hi Jono,
is that true, the sl2 doesn't have any sensor shake/cleaning system to prevent from dust?
I'm very interested by this camera, but only to support my M lenses... As a fix focal user I change a lot my lenses and encountour too much dust on my Ms.. Cannot imagine moving to the Sl2 and it's direct sensor, without a cleaner system..

So is it true? I can't find this information anywhere, but,
 

scott kirkpatrick

Well-known member
It has a sensor shake for dust removal. There was a discussion on the LUF on whether it could be turned off, but apparently it is always executed when the camera is turned on.
 

jonoslack

Active member
Hi Jono,
is that true, the sl2 doesn't have any sensor shake/cleaning system to prevent from dust?
I'm very interested by this camera, but only to support my M lenses... As a fix focal user I change a lot my lenses and encountour too much dust on my Ms.. Cannot imagine moving to the Sl2 and it's direct sensor, without a cleaner system..

So is it true? I can't find this information anywhere, but,
HI There
Scott has answered this one (I didn’t actually know the answer I’m ashamed to admit!).
I can see there is a lot of interest in using the camera for M lenses, and I only dealt with it rather cursorily in my article. So I’m going to do another article dealing with this specifically. I’ll try and get it finished over the weekend.

All the best
 

MGrayson

Subscriber and Workshop Member
When sensor clean and IBIS were first combined a few years ago, the dust was unimpressed (or slightly amused; I couldn't tell which). The motors just couldn't shake the sensor at a high enough frequency. Something changed in the last few years (an extra ultrasonic motor?) and both functions coexist effectively. I have not tried it on the SL2, but have noticed this in other cameras with IBIS and sensor clean.

Matt
 

bab

Active member
True dust sensor cleaning will not work and should be turned off a can of air and or sensor stuck is the only things you need.
 

eddystone

Member
Today's R-R is a BMW with added bling.

Most of today's Bentleys are VW/Audis with added bling, though there is still a V8 model available.

Neither has much residue, apart from the names, from former models.
Bit of a simplification. R-R Cars are part of BMW group (licensing the name for use on cars from Rolls Royce PLC, the much larger power generation group). Pretty well all the oily and silicon bits of Rolls Royce cars are designed and built by BMW in Germany but on a unique platform, not shared with any BMW (that was not true of the previous generation Ghost which was pretty heavily based on the BMW 7 series). Final assembly is at Goodwood in England which basically contributes the cabinet making, upholstery and paintwork - that sort of thing.

Bentley is a bit different. It has a similar autonomy within the VW group to Seat, Skoda or Porsche, so basically Crewe designs and engineers and assembles Bentleys but using the VW group parts bin. The previous generation Continental/Flying Spur were heavily based on the VW Phaeton but Bentley had as much input into the shared platform used for current models as Porsche. Crewe is the only place in the VW Group making 12 cylinder engines (originally designed for said Phaeton which was not a commercial success). The V8 engine used in the Mulsanne is actually a derivative of the legacy RR/Bentley V8 (not to be confused with generic VW group V8 used by Porsche, Bentley etc).

I presume you also believe the Bugatti Cheyron (also part of VW group) is a re-skinned VW Golf GTI

This is modern day manufacturing - the parallels with the L mount Alliance are evident.
 

scott kirkpatrick

Well-known member
When sensor clean and IBIS were first combined a few years ago, the dust was unimpressed (or slightly amused; I couldn't tell which). The motors just couldn't shake the sensor at a high enough frequency. Something changed in the last few years (an extra ultrasonic motor?) and both functions coexist effectively. I have not tried it on the SL2, but have noticed this in other cameras with IBIS and sensor clean.

Matt
I'm going on hints that i read in various places. I know that the IBIS is designed to move the sensor at the frequencies that humans apply. There is a whole spec for it that is the source of the number of stops gain that manufactures allow each other to quote. All you have to do is compensate successfully for a single minute-long trace that has been blessed for this purpose as representing typical users. Since Panasonic and Leica appear to be doing better than average I am sure that they do more. But shaking dust off is not part of this. That needs a separate very thin layer which I believe is part of the extra thin glass sandwich on top of the sensor. It probably operates in the 100s of kiloherz. Maybe this accounts for the difference in glass thickness between M10 and SLs.
 
Top