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Thread: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

  1. #101
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    I have always biked a lot, but to be honest, Berlin is just so well connected with trains, trams and buses that since I moved here I have had zero desire for a car. Now that I have a small daughter, my girlfriend is making noises in that direction, but in any case, it will be her car
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by viablex1 View Post
    would you consider given an idea of a good geared head?

    thanks
    MAtto
    Just noticed this thread, thought I would contribute a bit. Have used the Bogen/Manfrotto 410 for years, but its somewhat of a love hate relationship. It works well enough but some of its attributes I find a bit aggravating at times. Unfortunately the 410 & 405 models of geared heads are the only show in town for field work other than the uber expensive Cube and its Korean knockoff, which incidentally is now almost as expensive as the Cube.


    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Chris, I am currently using the Manfrotto 405, so I hope I will be okay there.
    Have just found and ordered a lightly used Linhof 3-way leveling head that seems to get high praise for those who have used it. Not convinced though it will effectively replace a geared head for LF work. Yet to be determined, but it is light and purportedly very rigid. The 405 appears to be quite a bit heavier & bulkier than its 410 counterpart for field work, but saving every pound one can lugging this stuff around is worth it IMO... especially if one is doing this from a bicycle. The 410 is adequately rigid enough when using film, but does flex somewhat when I use my Bettelight scan back. In addition using the 410 with very long lenses might also be pushing the envelop.

    I do agree with another post about the use of a PT head for LF work. I have yet to find one that did not throw level off kilter just a tad when you clamp down.

    Hope this helps.

    Rob

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Yeah, the 405 is heavy and bulky. One day I will get the Cube, but not today. There are too many other attractive things to get for that money at the moment
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Carsten, I shoot 11x14 LF now (previously 45, 57 & 810) and use a B2 Arca.

    I had a Cube 2-3 years ago and liquidated it within a week. My B2 (purchased in 1997) has been around the world numerous times with everything from a 600mm Nikon lens to a 210mm XL Schneider mounted on it - never has it failed.

    I would appreciate if someone would explain the advantage of using an Arca Cube with LF?

    Best of luck with your LF work!





    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Yeah, the 405 is heavy and bulky. One day I will get the Cube, but not today. There are too many other attractive things to get for that money at the moment

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Hmm, I hadn't really thought about it that way, but FWIW I also shoot MF, both Hasselblad V and Contax 645, and there it does make sense.

    I wonder if the Cube gets a bit lost under an LF camera. Jack might know...
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Cube works great on 4x5, just like with any other camera. Big advantage to any geared head over a single-lock ballhead is the ability to level the roll axis separate from the pitch axis, separate from yaw. However, the B2 is not single-lock, so you can adjust pitch and roll and yaw separately, and it was my preferred head for my big format cameras too. Only advantage the Cube has here is for smaller cameras, the geared movement and then total weight, as the B2 is about 2x the weight and not geared, but definitely more rigid when locked up. (I think you can park your car on a B2 and not hurt it.)

    FWIW, I found the Cube was too small for my 8x10 camera and why I used the bigger Arca B2. IMO the Cube is good for up to 5x7, or maybe a Phillips 8x10, but not the real big boys.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Carsten, Jack is obviously the voice of authority here with many years of experience and has "nailed it on the head" with respect to the virtues of the B2 versus the Cube.

    The Cube is NOT the head of choice with LF.

    The B2 is a joy to use with LF gear and will easily support the new big Mercedes SUV that your girl friend is going to purchase.

    Have fun!


    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Yeah, the 405 is heavy and bulky. One day I will get the Cube, but not today. There are too many other attractive things to get for that money at the moment

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    Just noticed this thread, thought I would contribute a bit. Have used the Bogen/Manfrotto 410 for years, but its somewhat of a love hate relationship. It works well enough but some of its attributes I find a bit aggravating at times. Unfortunately the 410 & 405 models of geared heads are the only show in town for field work other than the uber expensive Cube and its Korean knockoff, which incidentally is now almost as expensive as the Cube.




    Have just found and ordered a lightly used Linhof 3-way leveling head that seems to get high praise for those who have used it. Not convinced though it will effectively replace a geared head for LF work. Yet to be determined, but it is light and purportedly very rigid. The 405 appears to be quite a bit heavier & bulkier than its 410 counterpart for field work, but saving every pound one can lugging this stuff around is worth it IMO... especially if one is doing this from a bicycle. The 410 is adequately rigid enough when using film, but does flex somewhat when I use my Bettelight scan back. In addition using the 410 with very long lenses might also be pushing the envelop.

    I do agree with another post about the use of a PT head for LF work. I have yet to find one that did not throw level off kilter just a tad when you clamp down.

    Hope this helps.

    Rob

    thanks Rob, I didn't want to burn you out, hell I got tons of questions still, waiting for some extra work to get a lens a back and a good tripod head I have a good pair of sticks..

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tex View Post
    Carsten, Jack is obviously the voice of authority here with many years of experience and has "nailed it on the head" with respect to the virtues of the B2 versus the Cube.

    The Cube is NOT the head of choice with LF.

    The B2 is a joy to use with LF gear and will easily support the new big Mercedes SUV that your girl friend is going to purchase.
    Tex, I am curious, can you explain what it is you did not like about the Cube and why you do not think it is the head of choice for LF. I don't own one but would have thought it to be ideal for LF work. I have never cared for ball heads for LF work, though I understand the B2 or Z2 as it is now called by Linhof is quite a bit different.

    Thanks

    Rob

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    I don't know if this is the issue, but the Cube is very compact, so placing it underneath a (fairly large) camera baseplate might restrict access to it somewhat...
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    Tex, I am curious, can you explain what it is you did not like about the Cube and why you do not think it is the head of choice for LF. I don't own one but would have thought it to be ideal for LF work. I have never cared for ball heads for LF work, though I understand the B2 or Z2 as it is now called by Linhof is quite a bit different.

    Thanks

    Rob
    The issue is rigidity with heavy cameras and Tex shoots ULF -- 8x10 and larger. And the Cube isn't nearly as sturdy as the big Arca B2 once you get over about 8 Kilos of gear on top of it... Seriously, for really big, tall or heavy cameras, the B2 is one of the best options. It's stated carry weight is like 75 kilos, and I think it will easily support twice that -- it's a freaking rock.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    The issue is rigidity with heavy cameras and Tex shoots ULF -- 8x10 and larger. And the Cube isn't nearly as sturdy as the big Arca B2 once you get over about 8 Kilos of gear on top of it... Seriously, for really big, tall or heavy cameras, the B2 is one of the best options. It's stated carry weight is like 75 kilos, and I think it will easily support twice that -- it's a freaking rock.
    Whoops! Just realized I referred to the Z2 as a Linhof... a guy might get shot around here misnaming products like this.

    Regardless at 3.4 lbs (without plates) this is a heavy head, probably why I opted for the Linhof 3-Way Leveling head for now. We'll see how it goes and report back. BTW, Tex only mentioned LF in his negative opinion regarding the Cube, not ULF such as 8x10 etc so it seemed he did not like the Cube for any LF photography regardless of size. Perhaps I misunderstood his intent, but found this curious given everything else I have heard about the Cube.

    Now if only AR would introduce a 2 lb version of the Z2 (at a reasonable price, LOL), it would certainly get my attention.

    Rob

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    BTW, Tex only mentioned LF in his negative opinion regarding the Cube, not ULF such as 8x10 etc so it seemed he did not like the Cube for any LF photography regardless of size. Perhaps I misunderstood his intent, but found this curious given everything else I have heard about the Cube.
    Well I know him, so knew what he meant. But if you re-read his very first sentence, I think you'll see more clearly: "Carsten, I shoot 11x14 LF now (previously 45, 57 & 810) and use a B2 Arca."
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    FWIW, I found the Cube was too small for my 8x10 camera and why I used the bigger Arca B2. IMO the Cube is good for up to 5x7, or maybe a Phillips 8x10, but not the real big boys.
    Yeah once you get into 8x10 you have 3-4x the mass of 4x5, and that mass is at least 2x further away from the tripod head, so stability and head load is a completely different situation.

    I've never seen 8x10 referred to as ULF before - usually that term is reserved for formats larger than that. Not that I mind hehe
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    And BTW, the Burzinsky is the other HD head to consider, but it's uni-lock. Lars uses that and can tell you more...
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    And BTW, the Burzinsky is the other HD head to consider, but it's uni-lock. Lars uses that and can tell you more...
    Burzynski is great when locking power is top priority.I think it would be a ridiculous level of overkill with 4x5 though, there are better choices. And it does not have the fine control of a geared head like the Cube. I use it with my 8x10 monorail which has geared movements, so there is little need for a geared head with that camera.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Lars, the Burzynski looks like a neat head for when you don't need to flop over 90 degrees. Somehow it completely escaped my radar when I bought the RRS BH-55. How well does it resist creep when tightened down, something which I have had with every ballhead I have owned so far?
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Does anyone know how thick the Chamonix film holders are? I am wondering how thick 5 of them will be in my bag...
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Lars, the Burzynski looks like a neat head for when you don't need to flop over 90 degrees. Somehow it completely escaped my radar when I bought the RRS BH-55. How well does it resist creep when tightened down, something which I have had with every ballhead I have owned so far?
    Carsten, to put a 4x5 (or almost any view cam) vertical, you simply remove the back and re-install it vertical Most 4x5 film holders are about 7-8mm thick...
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Lars, the Burzynski looks like a neat head for when you don't need to flop over 90 degrees. Somehow it completely escaped my radar when I bought the RRS BH-55. How well does it resist creep when tightened down, something which I have had with every ballhead I have owned so far?
    Hahaha you have no idea how funny that question is. It will hold a 100 kg load no problem. My 8x10 monorail is 15+ kgs when everything is there, and the Burzynski holds it tight like a rock. Like I said - it's complete overkill for 4x5. It's just too big. I know, bigger is better, but there are limits hehe.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Does anyone know how thick the Chamonix film holders are? I am wondering how thick 5 of them will be in my bag...

    Carsten, FWIW -- I'm not sure Chamonix is producing 4 x 5 film holders. At least the last time I asked (about a year ago), Hugo said that they had not had time to make any. So, I would say that's another question for Hugo.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Carsten, to put a 4x5 (or almost any view cam) vertical, you simply remove the back and re-install it vertical
    Yes, I knew that the Chamonix could do that; I was thinking out loud w.r.t. my Contax, for which I have resisted getting the grip, and hence have no L-Bracket.

    Most 4x5 film holders are about 7-8mm thick...
    Ah, great, I thought they were much thicker. I can see that this won't be an issue.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Hahaha you have no idea how funny that question is. It will hold a 100 kg load no problem. My 8x10 monorail is 15+ kgs when everything is there, and the Burzynski holds it tight like a rock. Like I said - it's complete overkill for 4x5. It's just too big. I know, bigger is better, but there are limits hehe.
    I phrased that badly, I meant in the moment it is tightened, does it move a little? That always bothered me with all the heads I have tried, including the RRS BH-55.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by lilmsmaggie View Post
    Carsten, FWIW -- I'm not sure Chamonix is producing 4 x 5 film holders. At least the last time I asked (about a year ago), Hugo said that they had not had time to make any. So, I would say that's another question for Hugo.
    Ah? I thought I had seen somewhere that they did. I wonder where I saw that.

    Well, then the question changes to which film holders are nice, and good quality? I prefer something which matches the camera, not the cheap plastic ones I had once upon a time when I had a Crown Graphic, although ultimately this is not a big issue.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Ah? I thought I had seen somewhere that they did. I wonder where I saw that.

    Well, then the question changes to which film holders are nice, and good quality? I prefer something which matches the camera, not the cheap plastic ones I had once upon a time when I had a Crown Graphic, although ultimately this is not a big issue.
    Chamonix do make them. I should have looked before answering:

    http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/accessory.html
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    The Chamonix holders are excellent quality -- things of beauty actually and a joy to use!
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Good to hear, I like they way they match the body, with the carbon-fiber inserts. Yes, I know, they don't make better photos than plastic holders, but they would sure make me feel better
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Actually, I preferred wooden holders for one simple reason -- lack of static. Not that I ever had a huge dust problem, but the wooden holder did seem easier to keep clean.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Chamonix do make them. I should have looked before answering:

    http://www.chamonixviewcamera.com/accessory.html
    Check that they are actually in production, though.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    I have been reading about potential rigidity problems while inserting a film back. Some cameras apparently have a "bail", but I don't know what this is? How is the Chamonix in this regard?
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Check that they are actually in production, though.
    Well, the latest I will check is when I place my order... If they don't have/make any, I will get something else.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Read the Stroebel book on using film backs, and it will explain the differences. Basically there are two types of roll-film backs and two types of spring-backs used on view cameras. Roll-film backs either slip under the GG just like a film-holder, or attach via a Graflok connection. The camera's spring back can either be normal, or have a bail. Usually bail backs also do NOT have a Graflok compatible mount option.

    The Chamonix's standard spring back -- not sure if they offer other options -- is the most common type, which is Graflok compatible without a bail. You can use either type of roll-film back with this type of spring back.

    Bail backs are preferred by many as they make inserting and removing film-holders easier, and thus help prevent moving the camera or changing adjustments. The regular back is simpler and offers the Graflock option, which is an advantage for roll-film shooting. Either type takes just a little bit of practice to get the hang of using efficiently and smoothly.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Check that they are actually in production, though.
    Yes, I agree. I asked Hugo at least twice. And each time 4 x 5 holders were not available. That's why I suggest contacting him before you place your order. A simple e-mail should do the trick: [email protected]

    I also suggest that in the same e-mail, you find out if they still have the 45n-1 available. The last e-mail I received from him about a week ago leads me to believe you may have to look elsewhere for a 45n-1. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you can't get a 45n-1 --FWIW I would just check.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    The Schneider 90mm f/5.6 Super Angulon (without multi-coating) appears to be somewhat more affordable, with the MC version costing perhaps 50% more. Is this difference worth paying money for?
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    The Schneider 90mm f/5.6 Super Angulon (without multi-coating) appears to be somewhat more affordable, with the MC version costing perhaps 50% more. Is this difference worth paying money for?
    Okay...........

    MC versions have notably improved contrast and render better color than the older SC versions, and more importantly they render color constantly between focals, hence the price premium for MC. If you read back a few posts this is what I was talking about when I mentioned color consistency between lenses; ones marked MC will be consistent, where ones not marked MC may (probably will) render colors differently. The older single-coated versions however, are sometimes preferred for B&W specifically because of the lower contrast, but will be more flare-prone if shot towards a light-source, so hoods/shades become important. HOWEVER, some of the earlier multi-coated lenses were not specifically labeled MC, so you may or may not get a single-coated lens if you buy a lens without the MC label. Clear as mud now, right?

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Heh, I guess that helped. I think

    I suppose for consistency I will save up a bit more and pick up the MC version, to match my APO-Symmar. Later when I have used both for a while, I can decide if i want to swap one out and experiment a bit.

    Thanks Jack.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    I have been reading about potential rigidity problems while inserting a film back. Some cameras apparently have a "bail", but I don't know what this is? How is the Chamonix in this regard?
    When you're ready to insert the holder place a finger or two on the ground glass section (the part that springs out is what I mean, not the actual ground glass) and use your thumb to gently push against the camera while you pull with your fingers. Once there's enough space you slide in the holder.

    I've never had a problem with rigidity while inserting a holder using this technique including on an old 8x10 Empire State which wouldn't lock down after focusing so if you pushed/pulled too hard it would shift the focus.
    Last edited by Jeremy; 22nd January 2010 at 15:23. Reason: clarification

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    I phrased that badly, I meant in the moment it is tightened, does it move a little? That always bothered me with all the heads I have tried, including the RRS BH-55.
    Oh OK... I think I might have observed very slight movement from time to time, far less than my AS B1. The construction is different on the Burzynski, as the tightening increases pressure sidewas towards the center of the ball. Most regular ball head pressure the ball from below when tightening.

    For LF tightening creep is irrelevant as you do final cropping using shift movements. You also tend to not crop so tightly in LF.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    For LF tightening creep is irrelevant as you do final cropping using shift movements. You also tend to not crop so tightly in LF.
    Interesting comment, another thing I didn't know (the creep not being important in LF bit). I would have thought that you would want to level the camera just perfectly with the ballhead. If the camera lilts slightly to one side, it couldn't be corrected with a shift, but I suppose with a little rotation of the back? I am curious why you said shift, is that because the Burzynski only moves in an axial way?

    So, my first LF piece arrived, the Schneider-Kreuznach 210mm f/5.6 APO-Symmar, and it is absolutely stunning, virtually as new and beautiful to handle and look at. I overpaid a little at $445 ($400 seemed about the right price level), but there weren't any more on the horizon and I am used to Leica prices, so it seemed like a deal

    I have a question though: I was surprised to find out that the aperture lever has no detents, is that standard for LF lenses?

    I was also surprised to see how compact the lens was, about the size of a MF normal lens. In the photos, the only object to compare size with was the lens plate, and I thought they were much larger, but it is tiny, so I had the wrong idea in my head The f/8 and f/9 210mm lenses must be really tiny.

    I am all keen to try it out in anger, but it will be a few weeks before I can afford the Chamonix, so I am looking at cheap 4x5 studio cameras in eBay, like the Cambos. It looks like it might be possible to get one for a ridiculously small amount of money, like less than 100 Euro. Any recommendations?
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    I never had any problem with losing my horizon alignment due to ballhead creep - for me human error is far more likely. With my 8x10 monorail there is also some play between the rear standard and the rail when untightened, so I tend to use that for fine alignment to the horizon. Either way, cropping can fix any tilted horizon.

    Your new APO-Symmar sounds like a keeper. I have a 180 and a 240, got both of them new in 2002/2003, each for at least twice what you paid.

    For under 100 euros a studio 4x5 might be worth considering, perhaps to keep as a backup to the Chamonix later on. Monorails are far more stable at long extensions so they make better macro cameras than field cameras. Cambos are great and like you said not expensive.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    I am looking at both Cambos and was also recommended older Sinars, but as I understand it, both of those take different lens boards than the Technika-style one on my 210AS. Is there another brand which doesn't require an adapter (which can apparently cost as much as the cheap 4x5 camera, defeating the point a bit)?
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    r LF tightening creep is irrelevant as you do final cropping using shift movements. You also tend to not crop so tightly in LF.
    Lars - With respect; creep is very important to architectural photographers, particularly with respect to nailing both the vertical and the horizon and that's what I had in mind when recommending a geared head. Architecture can be hard on the eyes, particularly using wide angle lenses; I've photographed modern constructions with 'creative' notions of what is vertical and horizontal and knowing one is framing the image from a solid base of at least the camera being properly set in the horizontal and vertical planes gives one a fighting chance with the photograph.

    If photographing a building square-on say, it was always my preference to 'square up' the image on screen with geared-head rotation rather than by rotating the rear standard and then transferring that amount of rotation to the front standard. I'm sure some others might prefer the second technique over the first, but for me a tripod head with creep is as useless as a spirit level which doesn't show true level [and yes they do exist!].

    ................. Chris

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris C View Post
    Lars - With respect; creep is very important to architectural photographers, particularly with respect to nailing both the vertical and the horizon and that's what I had in mind when recommending a geared head. Architecture can be hard on the eyes, particularly using wide angle lenses; I've photographed modern constructions with 'creative' notions of what is vertical and horizontal and knowing one is framing the image from a solid base of at least the camera being properly set in the horizontal and vertical planes gives one a fighting chance with the photograph.

    If photographing a building square-on say, it was always my preference to 'square up' the image on screen with geared-head rotation rather than by rotating the rear standard and then transferring that amount of rotation to the front standard. I'm sure some others might prefer the second technique over the first, but for me a tripod head with creep is as useless as a spirit level which doesn't show true level [and yes they do exist!].

    ................. Chris
    Sure - I'm not an architectural photographer. A good geared head - if it's good - is of course ideal for such an application, rather than an ordinary ball head. But we're not talking about an ordinary little ball head here.

    EDIT: Ok I had to test... using my Burzynski ball head there's zero creep when using an 8x10 and a 240 mm lens.
    Last edited by Lars; 24th January 2010 at 00:27.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    I have a question though: I was surprised to find out that the aperture lever has no detents, is that standard for LF lenses?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    I was also surprised to see how compact the lens was, about the size of a MF normal lens.
    It's actually not all that small as lenses for 4x5 go - try a 120, 135 or 150 Apo-Symmar, all of which come in Copal 0 rather than Copal 1. Now those are small, and much lighter, too.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    I am looking at both Cambos and was also recommended older Sinars, but as I understand it, both of those take different lens boards than the Technika-style one on my 210AS. Is there another brand which doesn't require an adapter (which can apparently cost as much as the cheap 4x5 camera, defeating the point a bit)?
    Very few monorails have been made native to the Technika standard. Linhof made at least two - the Technikardan, which is very pricey, and the Color (not to be confused with the Kardan Color, a different camera entirely).

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Yes, the Technikardan is drop-dead gorgeous, and I have a few bookmarked in eBay However, the prices are still up around 1600-1800 Euro for a relatively complete camera in good shape, and I don't want to spend more than 1/10th that for my first studio 4x5. I have no idea if I will use it much. With the field camera, I feel much more confident, which is why I am aiming at a new Chamonix.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    It looks like Shen Hao have now copied the Chamonix design, or perhaps rather, the Phillips design:

    http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/product...2336&PT_ID=437
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    It looks like Shen Hao have now copied the Chamonix design, or perhaps rather, the Phillips design:

    http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/product...2336&PT_ID=437
    I am pretty sure Shen has had the Phillips copy on 5x7 for a few years, so it was only a matter of time for the 4x5 version. Good move too, as it's an excellent design for making light-weight yet rigid field cameras.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Hmm, I hope this doesn't hurt Chamonix's position in the marketplace. Shen Hao is a little cheaper, I believe, and it could be that if people want to make a step up, they step right past Chamonix to a European or North American manufacturer.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    The Shen is all wood, the Chamonix has the CF weight advantage, so I think there's room for both...
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