LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

[carstenw]

I have decided that asking all these questions in Jack's Digital Camera Review of the Chamonix 4x5 (?) was invasive, and so will ask in this thread instead.

1) Does it matter which shutter I get (Compur #0, Compur #1, ...)?

2) Do all lenses screw onto various board types (Linhof, Graflok, ...)?

3) How does one achieve macro on an LF camera, i.e. do I need to worry about which lens I buy if I want to do macro?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Lars]

1) Lenses come in shutters, usually Copal 0, 1, or 3. 0 and 1 are moderately sized, 3 is very large and a bit unwieldly on 4x5.

2) Shutter decides hole diameter. Boards come pre-drilled for Copal shutters, or you can get blank (undrilled) boards and make a hole yourself if you have an odd-size shutter.

3) most lenses are good all the way to at least 1:2. There are specific macro lenses optimized for 1:1. Macro lenses might perform better WRT resolving power and field flatness close-up, but LF lenses in general are quite good since there is no need for retrofocus designs.

 

[carstenw]

Thanks for these answers. I think I mixed up front and rear board standards when I added Graflok to the list, though. Oops. I thought there were different shapes of board, some with the hole even off-centre?

I doubt I will want to go much past 1:2, so that sounds great to me for macro.

 

[carstenw]

I am looking for a decent book on LF photography, and have heard of a couple, but don't know which are good and which less so.

Does anyone know either "Using the View Camera", by Steve Simmons, or "View Camera Technique", by Leslie Stroebel?

 

[Jack]

Get Stroebel's book, it is a storehouse of data. Also I highly recommend Ansel Adam's "The Camera" for a really good primer on view cam basics.

Newer (since about the 1950's) Copal and Compur 0 and 1 shutters fit in the same holes. You only need offset holes if you need to add rise (or fall).

 

[Lars]

Stroebel and Simmons are both good.

The hole offset on Linhof boards are for Linhof cameras, Jack? I remember us swapping a few boards because you specifically wanted boards with offset.

 

[redrockcoulee]

I would recommend Jim Stone's A User's Guide to the View Camera or Simmons book over Strobel's book to begin with . I have both Stone's which I think is the most basic of the three and Stobel's which is the most advanced although I got them in reverse order. Jack Dykinga's Large Format Nature Photography also has some useful info and some stuff that none of the first three cover, conversely it misses out on much that is in them.

Shutters are lens specific in that you do not have the choice in shutter size if you want a particular lens however there are alternative lenses in the same focal lenght that may have the other shutter size. A 210 lens for example is often in a 1 shutter but many 240 lenses are in a 3. But some 240 lenses would be in a number 1 often at a cost of being either a slower lens or less coverage.

 

[carstenw]

Well, I had decided on the Simmons book, but Amazon won't send it to Germany for some reason, so I have to get the Stroebel book instead. If that ends up too high-level, I will pick up the Stone book.

Jack, I already have Ansel Adams' set, including "The Camera", and will re-read the relevant sections for bits which are more relevant to me now.

Man, I am *really* looking forward to this! I am more or less decided on the walnut (or teak, if walnut is done) Chamonix 4x5. I normally try to avoid buying Chinese, for political and fiscal reasons, but these guys have really deserved our support. I will look for a Schneider f/6.8 or f/8 90mm lens, and see if there is enough room in my budget for a 210/240 as well.

 

[Jack]

Stroebel and Simmons are both good.

The hole offset on Linhof boards are for Linhof cameras, Jack? I remember us swapping a few boards because you specifically wanted boards with offset.

Some others use the 5mm offset as their standard too, and at that time one of the cameras I was using preferred it --- I think it was my Lotus 8x10 ;-)

 

[Jack]

Well, I had decided on the Simmons book, but Amazon won't send it to Germany for some reason, so I have to get the Stroebel book instead. If that ends up too high-level, I will pick up the Stone book.

Jack, I already have Ansel Adams' set, including "The Camera", and will re-read the relevant sections for bits which are more relevant to me now.

Man, I am *really* looking forward to this! I am more or less decided on the walnut (or teak, if walnut is done) Chamonix 4x5. I normally try to avoid buying Chinese, for political and fiscal reasons, but these guys have really deserved our support. I will look for a Schneider f/6.8 or f/8 90mm lens, and see if there is enough room in my budget for a 210/240 as well.

For field work and general imaging, I'd opt for the f8 Schneider 90 Super Angulon. The older Angulon f6.8 is a lot smaller, but not as good optically and limited in total IC. If you have to have one of the Angulons, look for a Linhof "Technika" branded one as they were hand-selected and generally better performers.

 

[carstenw]

Thanks Jack, I didn't know that.

One simple question before my book arrives: is there a general rule of thumb for how to estimate depth of field with 4x5, compared to either MF or 35mm?

 

[Jack]

Thanks Jack, I didn't know that.

One simple question before my book arrives: is there a general rule of thumb for how to estimate depth of field with 4x5, compared to either MF or 35mm?

Actually, once you start adding even a few degrees of tilt, all your normal DoF "rule of thumb" guesstimates go out the window as Scheimpflug kicks in. So I highly recommend this nifty little LF calculator by Rodenstock: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=rodenstock+calculator&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

 

[lilmsmaggie]

You might also try Alibris used books; http://www.alibris.com they have Simmons book and they may be able to ship to Germany. Give them a try. I'm surprised that Amazon won't ship.

 

[lilmsmaggie]

In regard to the Chamonix, a newer model, the 45n-2 will be available in about 8-10 weeks. You may want to check with Hugo Zhang [email protected] for details.

The factory in China has run out of Walnut; although there may be 45n-1's available. Otherwise, the new model will be availabe in only Teak and Maple.

Again, I would contact Hugo to see what they have.

 

[carstenw]

Thanks Maggie, I did see the thread on the LFP forum about this model. I was hoping to find a walnut 45N-1, and failing that, to get the teak 45N-2. Hugo Zhang is only the importer for the States, I thought?

I think it is not Amazon.co.uk which won't ship, but rather that since they don't carry it themselves, the seller who carries it and advertises it through Amazon won't ship. Anyway, Stroebel is on the way, so I will see how I get along with it before ordering more books.

 

[carstenw]

Actually, once you start adding even a few degrees of tilt, all your normal DoF "rule of thumb" guesstimates go out the window as Scheimpflug kicks in. So I highly recommend this nifty little LF calculator by Rodenstock: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=rodenstock+calculator&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

Not available, but I guess I could find it elsewhere. It sounds like I need accurate readouts of all angles set on the camera, and I am not aware of the Chamonix having that?

Anyway, I meant more without movements, i.e. for straight portraits, just to get a feel for how it changes from smaller formats to 4x5.

 

[rmueller]

Not available, but I guess I could find it elsewhere. It sounds like I need accurate readouts of all angles set on the camera, and I am not aware of the Chamonix having that?

Anyway, I meant more without movements, i.e. for straight portraits, just to get a feel for how it changes from smaller formats to 4x5.

Hi Carsten,
Might want to try here
http://www.greiner-photo.de/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=30_86&products_id=293
Then, you can use this calculator to calculate the required aperture by
focusing to the near/far point of your subject. Read the difference (in mm)
and then use the calculator to determine the aperture, it is quite easy.
Best Regards,
Ralf

 

[Oren Grad]

Thanks Jack, I didn't know that.

One simple question before my book arrives: is there a general rule of thumb for how to estimate depth of field with 4x5, compared to either MF or 35mm?

Carsten, you can get a feel for it by playing with this calculator:

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

 

[carstenw]

Thanks everyone, I just wanted to have a rule of thumb feel for it, for the purpose of choosing lenses, but I guess I can get that by playing with one or more of the calculators.

A different question: with the Chamonix 45N-1 and a 90mm lens, do the bellows interfere with movements, and if so, roughly how much? I might go to a 100-120mm lens if the movements are too restricted. I guess a 75mm is out of the question with movements? As far as I can tell, 75mm is roughly equal to 24mm on 135 format, which would be a nice width for me.

For the longer lens, I am guessing by the total bellows length that I could go to 1:1 with max. a 180mm lens or thereabouts, so 210mm seems good for my uses, but 240mm perhaps a tad long, given that I want to be able to go close-ish. Then again, the size of the negatives might give me a bit of room for cropping here, so maybe it isn't such a big deal.

I have been thinking more about what I want to photograph, and I think I might start with the longer lens. Is the G-Claron good close up? Is it any good for portraits?

Thanks again for any thoughts.

 

[Lars]

The other method is to focus and look at the ground glass. A good loupe is a must, 6x is good magnification 10x might be too much. With the 90 you will find it harder to see accurate focus than with the 210.