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Thread: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

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    LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    I have decided that asking all these questions in Jack's Digital Camera Review of the Chamonix 4x5 (?) was invasive, and so will ask in this thread instead.

    1) Does it matter which shutter I get (Compur #0, Compur #1, ...)?

    2) Do all lenses screw onto various board types (Linhof, Graflok, ...)?

    3) How does one achieve macro on an LF camera, i.e. do I need to worry about which lens I buy if I want to do macro?

    Thanks in advance.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    1) Lenses come in shutters, usually Copal 0, 1, or 3. 0 and 1 are moderately sized, 3 is very large and a bit unwieldly on 4x5.

    2) Shutter decides hole diameter. Boards come pre-drilled for Copal shutters, or you can get blank (undrilled) boards and make a hole yourself if you have an odd-size shutter.

    3) most lenses are good all the way to at least 1:2. There are specific macro lenses optimized for 1:1. Macro lenses might perform better WRT resolving power and field flatness close-up, but LF lenses in general are quite good since there is no need for retrofocus designs.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Thanks for these answers. I think I mixed up front and rear board standards when I added Graflok to the list, though. Oops. I thought there were different shapes of board, some with the hole even off-centre?

    I doubt I will want to go much past 1:2, so that sounds great to me for macro.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    I am looking for a decent book on LF photography, and have heard of a couple, but don't know which are good and which less so.

    Does anyone know either "Using the View Camera", by Steve Simmons, or "View Camera Technique", by Leslie Stroebel?
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Get Stroebel's book, it is a storehouse of data. Also I highly recommend Ansel Adam's "The Camera" for a really good primer on view cam basics.

    Newer (since about the 1950's) Copal and Compur 0 and 1 shutters fit in the same holes. You only need offset holes if you need to add rise (or fall).
    Jack
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Stroebel and Simmons are both good.

    The hole offset on Linhof boards are for Linhof cameras, Jack? I remember us swapping a few boards because you specifically wanted boards with offset.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    I would recommend Jim Stone's A User's Guide to the View Camera or Simmons book over Strobel's book to begin with . I have both Stone's which I think is the most basic of the three and Stobel's which is the most advanced although I got them in reverse order. Jack Dykinga's Large Format Nature Photography also has some useful info and some stuff that none of the first three cover, conversely it misses out on much that is in them.

    Shutters are lens specific in that you do not have the choice in shutter size if you want a particular lens however there are alternative lenses in the same focal lenght that may have the other shutter size. A 210 lens for example is often in a 1 shutter but many 240 lenses are in a 3. But some 240 lenses would be in a number 1 often at a cost of being either a slower lens or less coverage.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Well, I had decided on the Simmons book, but Amazon won't send it to Germany for some reason, so I have to get the Stroebel book instead. If that ends up too high-level, I will pick up the Stone book.

    Jack, I already have Ansel Adams' set, including "The Camera", and will re-read the relevant sections for bits which are more relevant to me now.

    Man, I am *really* looking forward to this! I am more or less decided on the walnut (or teak, if walnut is done) Chamonix 4x5. I normally try to avoid buying Chinese, for political and fiscal reasons, but these guys have really deserved our support. I will look for a Schneider f/6.8 or f/8 90mm lens, and see if there is enough room in my budget for a 210/240 as well.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Stroebel and Simmons are both good.

    The hole offset on Linhof boards are for Linhof cameras, Jack? I remember us swapping a few boards because you specifically wanted boards with offset.
    Some others use the 5mm offset as their standard too, and at that time one of the cameras I was using preferred it --- I think it was my Lotus 8x10 ;-)
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Well, I had decided on the Simmons book, but Amazon won't send it to Germany for some reason, so I have to get the Stroebel book instead. If that ends up too high-level, I will pick up the Stone book.

    Jack, I already have Ansel Adams' set, including "The Camera", and will re-read the relevant sections for bits which are more relevant to me now.

    Man, I am *really* looking forward to this! I am more or less decided on the walnut (or teak, if walnut is done) Chamonix 4x5. I normally try to avoid buying Chinese, for political and fiscal reasons, but these guys have really deserved our support. I will look for a Schneider f/6.8 or f/8 90mm lens, and see if there is enough room in my budget for a 210/240 as well.
    For field work and general imaging, I'd opt for the f8 Schneider 90 Super Angulon. The older Angulon f6.8 is a lot smaller, but not as good optically and limited in total IC. If you have to have one of the Angulons, look for a Linhof "Technika" branded one as they were hand-selected and generally better performers.
    Jack
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Thanks Jack, I didn't know that.

    One simple question before my book arrives: is there a general rule of thumb for how to estimate depth of field with 4x5, compared to either MF or 35mm?
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Thanks Jack, I didn't know that.

    One simple question before my book arrives: is there a general rule of thumb for how to estimate depth of field with 4x5, compared to either MF or 35mm?
    Actually, once you start adding even a few degrees of tilt, all your normal DoF "rule of thumb" guesstimates go out the window as Scheimpflug kicks in. So I highly recommend this nifty little LF calculator by Rodenstock: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search...tialSearch=yes
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    You might also try Alibris used books; http://www.alibris.com they have Simmons book and they may be able to ship to Germany. Give them a try. I'm surprised that Amazon won't ship.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    In regard to the Chamonix, a newer model, the 45n-2 will be available in about 8-10 weeks. You may want to check with Hugo Zhang [email protected] for details.

    The factory in China has run out of Walnut; although there may be 45n-1's available. Otherwise, the new model will be availabe in only Teak and Maple.

    Again, I would contact Hugo to see what they have.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Thanks Maggie, I did see the thread on the LFP forum about this model. I was hoping to find a walnut 45N-1, and failing that, to get the teak 45N-2. Hugo Zhang is only the importer for the States, I thought?

    I think it is not Amazon.co.uk which won't ship, but rather that since they don't carry it themselves, the seller who carries it and advertises it through Amazon won't ship. Anyway, Stroebel is on the way, so I will see how I get along with it before ordering more books.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Actually, once you start adding even a few degrees of tilt, all your normal DoF "rule of thumb" guesstimates go out the window as Scheimpflug kicks in. So I highly recommend this nifty little LF calculator by Rodenstock: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search...tialSearch=yes
    Not available, but I guess I could find it elsewhere. It sounds like I need accurate readouts of all angles set on the camera, and I am not aware of the Chamonix having that?

    Anyway, I meant more without movements, i.e. for straight portraits, just to get a feel for how it changes from smaller formats to 4x5.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Not available, but I guess I could find it elsewhere. It sounds like I need accurate readouts of all angles set on the camera, and I am not aware of the Chamonix having that?

    Anyway, I meant more without movements, i.e. for straight portraits, just to get a feel for how it changes from smaller formats to 4x5.
    Hi Carsten,
    Might want to try here
    http://www.greiner-photo.de/catalog/...roducts_id=293
    Then, you can use this calculator to calculate the required aperture by
    focusing to the near/far point of your subject. Read the difference (in mm)
    and then use the calculator to determine the aperture, it is quite easy.
    Best Regards,
    Ralf

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Thanks Jack, I didn't know that.

    One simple question before my book arrives: is there a general rule of thumb for how to estimate depth of field with 4x5, compared to either MF or 35mm?
    Carsten, you can get a feel for it by playing with this calculator:

    http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Thanks everyone, I just wanted to have a rule of thumb feel for it, for the purpose of choosing lenses, but I guess I can get that by playing with one or more of the calculators.

    A different question: with the Chamonix 45N-1 and a 90mm lens, do the bellows interfere with movements, and if so, roughly how much? I might go to a 100-120mm lens if the movements are too restricted. I guess a 75mm is out of the question with movements? As far as I can tell, 75mm is roughly equal to 24mm on 135 format, which would be a nice width for me.

    For the longer lens, I am guessing by the total bellows length that I could go to 1:1 with max. a 180mm lens or thereabouts, so 210mm seems good for my uses, but 240mm perhaps a tad long, given that I want to be able to go close-ish. Then again, the size of the negatives might give me a bit of room for cropping here, so maybe it isn't such a big deal.

    I have been thinking more about what I want to photograph, and I think I might start with the longer lens. Is the G-Claron good close up? Is it any good for portraits?

    Thanks again for any thoughts.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    The other method is to focus and look at the ground glass. A good loupe is a must, 6x is good magnification 10x might be too much. With the 90 you will find it harder to see accurate focus than with the 210.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    90 should be no problem. Only extreme shifts are usually a problem, and then only with very short focal lengths. I think even a 65 is workable on the Chamonix, though it might make the bellows crumble a bit temporarily. I've used 47XL on my Ebony with full rise, a 75-90 should not be a problem on most folders.

    If you want to use your longer lens for 1:1 macros then 180-210 is more appropriate. A 240 is likely much heavier in a Copal 3, an 480 mm extension will be a bit shaky so you'll need a second tripod to get everything to calm down. With a 180 OTOH you get 360 mm at 1:1 which is more moderate.

    Then again, if you look at dedicated macro lenses for 4x5, they are usually 120 mm or so, to give a moderate extension at 1:1. There is no real need for long focal lengths for macro. Keep in mind that at 1:1 the image circle doubles, so a 4x5 lens will cover 8x10 at 1:1.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    The Schneider Symmar-S 210mm f/5.6 also seems to be quite affordable, although it is a bit heavier. Is there a reason to avoid it over the G-Claron? I am not sure if f/9 will give shallow enough DoF for my uses...
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Thanks for the macro-thoughts, Lars, that is helpful. I might just get the 210 or 240 and a dedicated macro lens later. For starting off, 1:2 or 1:3 should be enough for me.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    About loupes, can someone recommend a nice loupe possible to use with glasses, perhaps 6-8x magnification? Price is a concern, but quality is more important, ultimately.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    About loupes, can someone recommend a nice loupe possible to use with glasses, perhaps 6-8x magnification? Price is a concern, but quality is more important, ultimately.
    Hi Carsten,

    I would not use a 8x, it is only good to inspect the details of the ground
    glass IMO.

    I use a Schneider 6x and occasionally a Toyo 3.6x, see
    http://www.adorama.com/TYFA.html for the Toyo and
    http://www.schneiderkreuznach.com/fo...hoer_lupen.htm
    for the Schneider.

    Regards,
    Ralf

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Carsten,

    The Schneider is good quality, although it has a plastic housing. I use the Toyo from
    time to time to verify sharpness in the corners since it has smaller diameter.
    I would recommend the Schneider.

    Regards,
    Ralf

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    I am not sure if f/9 will give shallow enough DoF for my uses...
    Do try one of those calculators. Your challenge in large format macro work is not going to be getting shallow focus, it's going to be getting deep enough focus.

    F/5.6 will make viewing a bit easier. But bear in mind that focusing becomes tricky at macro distances. Your effective apertures will be smaller because of bellows extension - diffraction will rear its ugly head more quickly. And you will need to add exposure compensation because of bellows extension - this is typically ignored or handled automatically by TTL meters in smaller formats - potentially pushing you into reciprocity failure.

    Shorter focal lengths enable you to get away with a shorter maximum bellows draw, but as with distant subjects they still affect the perspective and the rendering of space, and the result may not be what you want.

    Large format is wonderful. But macro work in particular becomes exponentially more challenging technically as the format size goes up. Many users who prefer large format for general work continue to do macro work in smaller formats because it's impossible to achieve the results they want in any other way. Be prepared for a lot of learning in this specialized domain, far beyond the general unfamiliarity of large format.

    Re lenses: at least in the US, late-model 210mm f/5.6 plasmats are plentiful and cheap. If you're on a budget, the best value for a general purpose lens in terms of optical quality for money will tend to be found in early '80s-vintage multicoated lenses - Schneider Symmar-S MC, Rodenstock Sironar-N MC, Caltar II-N MC (which is just the Rodenstock under a private label, usually cheaper because of that). Specialized macro lenses (Macro-Sironar, Macro-Symmar, Nikkor AM) will be better corrected than general-purpose plasmats for 1:2 or 1:3, but they will tend to be much more expensive, especially if you want the longer focal lengths. You can start with a regular plasmat and see where that takes you.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Oren, I am entirely with you, I am not intending to use f/5.6 for macro work, but for portrait work! The macro work is more of a side-interest which I want to think about in advance. The main use for the 210/240 will be landscape/detail, secondary purpose portraits, and only third for close-ups.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    OK, that sounds good.

    I'd say just go for one of the 210's. The 240/5.6 plasmats are all in #3 shutters, which make them much bigger and heavier. The 240 process lenses like the G-Claron and Apo-Ronar come in #1 shutters and are compact but are f/9, which means dimmer viewing and more difficult focusing.

    Whichever way you choose to go: welcome aboard, good luck, and enjoy!

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Thanks, I am very excited about this! I have to balance purchases with sales of other equipment though, so it might be a while before my first frame is exposed.

    Speaking of exposure, what about development? I would like to develop the negatives myself, and scan them. The scanning end is taken care of, and I am already developing MF film (B&W), so what challenges can I expect with LF? Are there light-tight containers to pour developer into and out of for LF? I recall doing some 4x5 in a photo course I took about 420 years ago, but the containers were open (I hung the negatives into them in a rack), and I was doing it in a dark room. That would be harder to set up now, in my current apartment.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Carsten,

    Much of what you think might be different in actual practice with large format--for example, the idea that 75mm is equivalent to a 24mm on 35mm. I haven't done the math so I don't know if this is based on the diagonal of the format, but a 75mm on 4x5 feels much wider than a 24mm on 35mm--much closer to 21mm, imo. This is due to the boxier format.

    I would suggest not trying to make too many plans or make too many purchases before you've done any shooting.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Another question: Chamonix accessories. Is the "Universal Bellows" just the bellows, and thus needs to be purchased separately, or are there really two kinds?

    Do I need a bag bellows for the 90mm?

    Should I buy the lensboards from Chamonix or from elsewhere? I am kinda tempted to spend that little extra and not have to worry about separate ordering and shipping...

    Is the folding viewer any good, or should I aim for a cloth?

    What is the protective leather jacket? It already comes with a wrap...
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    For developing 4x5 film I have yet to find a better option than the Jobo 3010 Expert drum. It has to be loaded in the dark, but everything else can be done in the light. It's for rotary processing, but you can use a Beseler or UniColor (or whatever) rotating base instead of a Jobo unit.

    It will develop 10 sheets at one time.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Jeremy, 24mm is about what 75mm would be if 4x5 was cut to 3.33x5, i.e. the same dimensions as 135 format. It probably feels a tad wider... For comparison, I currently use my Contax 645 with 35mm and 120mm macro lenses, and get along really well with those. The 35mm is about a 21mm equivalent, but I don't need it quite so wide, so I thought perhaps 75mm.

    Edit: I am planning to start with two lenses, one fairly wide, and one slightly tele. This will allow me to continue my current long-term project without interruption, and smoothly switching from 645 to 4x5. I am deciding between 75mm and 90mm for the wide end, and 210mm and 240mm for the long end. For practical reasons, it sounds like I might end up with 90mm and 210mm, but I wanted to try to make the decision as informed as possible.
    Last edited by carstenw; 15th January 2010 at 13:07.
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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Another question: Chamonix accessories. Is the "Universal Bellows" just the bellows, and thus needs to be purchased separately, or are there really two kinds?

    Do I need a bag bellows for the 90mm?

    Should I buy the lensboards from Chamonix or from elsewhere? I am kinda tempted to spend that little extra and not have to worry about separate ordering and shipping...

    Is the folding viewer any good, or should I aim for a cloth?

    What is the protective leather jacket? It already comes with a wrap...
    The "Universal Bellows" are a different type of bellows that lend themselves more to movements with wide angle lenses.

    I have the normal (non-universal bellows) on my Chamonix and have no problems using a 90mm lens. If you're planning on going wider than 90mm or think you might I would get the universal bellows instead of the normal one.

    You don't need a bag bellows for 90mm in normal shooting.

    It doesn't make any difference where you get the boards as long as they fit. If it's less of a hassle to spend the little extra then there's no reason not to do so.

    The protective leather jacket is more cosmetic, imo, than anything else.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Jeremy, you mean this:

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Film_Drum.html

    How does it work? I am used to hand-turning The price is pretty impressive if it is just a plastic container for 4x5 film! I am currently loading my film in a dark bag, but perhaps space would be a bit tight for something this large...
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Jeremy, 24mm is about what 75mm would be if 4x5 was cut to 3.33x5, i.e. the same dimensions as 135 format. It probably feels a tad wider... For comparison, I currently use my Contax 645 with 35mm and 120mm macro lenses, and get along really well with those. The 35mm is about a 21mm equivalent, but I don't need it quite so wide, so I thought perhaps 75mm.
    Ahh, gotcha.

    I shoot 4x5 for, among other things, the 4x5 aspect ratio so I base such decisions on the format as a whole.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Jeremy, you mean this:

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Film_Drum.html

    How does it work? I am used to hand-turning The price is pretty impressive if it is just a plastic container for 4x5 film! I am currently loading my film in a dark bag, but perhaps space would be a bit tight for something this large...
    Yes, that's it and it's just a big plastic container, but designed for perfect agitation every time for each of the 10 sheets without any problems. It's worth the cost.

    You can put it on something like this instead of getting a Jobo unit (like the CPA2 or something):


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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    I just added more info to the post you just quoted... the 3.33x5 trick was just to get a feel for the equivalence of lenses, not to make final decisions.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    You can also pick up the 3010 used much cheaper. I only paid $150 for mine.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    I just added more info to the post you just quoted... the 3.33x5 trick was just to get a feel for the equivalence of lenses, not to make final decisions.
    My point was that the 3.33x5 trick won't give you a feel for the equivalence (unless you're cropping your images to this orientation) because the extra height in landscape orientation and extra width in portrait makes such a large change in how the space feels.

    Honestly, I don't think you can make any meaningful exact mm equivalents between 35mm and LF for those who have not worked in both formats because of this. I usually just talk about it in terms of "normal", "slightly wide", "really wide", etc. for those who are just learning.

    I've bought and sold way too much LF gear getting to where I want to be, I was just hoping to steer you away from some theoretical pitfalls I suffered when starting out.

    edit to try and make myself more clear: I don't think a photographer coming up to a scene with a 35mm camera and 24mm lens would make the same photograph if he were using a 4x5 and 75mm lens. He would respond differently to the space with a 35/24mm than a 4x5/75mm.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Fair enough, and thanks for the help. 75mm does sound a tad wide, so I will stick with the 90mm.

    It sounds like along with the 3010 tank, I need a foot-pump to get the lid off, and an adapter if I want to use the CPP-2 motor. Is that what you have?

    Stupid question: how do 10 sheets fit into 5 holes?
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    The price is pretty impressive if it is just a plastic container for 4x5 film!
    It's a quite complex design - double-walled to provide for a temperature-controlling water jacket when it's used with the Jobo processors, and with subtle shaping of the wells in which the film sheets sit, to assure adequate and even flow of the processing solutions.

    The Jobo processors are fabulous. Yes, it's more than you'll want to spend as you're just getting started, but keep them in mind for later on. Although the processors are out of production and have been discontinued in the US, I thought I read somewhere recently that the CPA-2 is still available new in Germany.

    In the meantime, using a Jobo Expert drum on a manual roller base is a very reasonable starting point.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Fair enough, and thanks for the help. 75mm does sound a tad wide, so I will stick with the 90mm.

    It sounds like along with the 3010 tank, I need a foot-pump to get the lid off, and an adapter if I want to use the CPP-2 motor. Is that what you have?

    Stupid question: how do 10 sheets fit into 5 holes?
    You don't need a foot-pump to get the lid off. I have one now because it came with a tank I bought for 8x10, but I didn't use one for ~5 years. You can also get ANY footpump, put a rubber stopper on the end that will seal into the tank, and use that instead of the Jobo one. I just put the tank on the floor (held between my feet) and pried up with my fingertips to take the lid off--or I know one gent who gently raps the edge of the lid on his countertop until he can pry it loose with his fingers (he has arthritis).

    2 sheets per hole! They get put in emulsion side facing into the center of the hole and there are little ridges holding the film in place.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    It sounds like along with the 3010 tank, I need a foot-pump to get the lid off, and an adapter if I want to use the CPP-2 motor.
    Yes, the foot pump is a big help in popping the lid after processing. The Expert drums already have built in to the lid the cog that's needed to connect with the Jobo Lift. You need to have the Lift installed to use the Expert drums at all, but most CPA-2 and CPP-2 that you'll find on the used market come with the Lift - it never made much sense to buy without.

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Stupid question: how do 10 sheets fit into 5 holes?
    Each well has ridges in the wall to enable it to safely hold two sheets without the sheets ending up on top of each other. In loading, you wedge each sheet against the wall of the well, between the ridges.

    It's the only Expert drum that's made that way - the 3004, 3005 and 3006 all take only one sheet per well.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    It's a quite complex design - double-walled to provide for a temperature-controlling water jacket when it's used with the Jobo processors, and with subtle shaping of the wells in which the film sheets sit, to assure adequate and even flow of the processing solutions.

    The Jobo processors are fabulous. Yes, it's more than you'll want to spend as you're just getting started, but keep them in mind for later on. Although the processors are out of production and have been discontinued in the US, I thought I read somewhere recently that the CPA-2 is still available new in Germany.

    In the meantime, using a Jobo Expert drum on a manual roller base is a very reasonable starting point.
    Shoot, I HAVE a Jobo processor and I still use a Beseler rotating base!

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy View Post
    Shoot, I HAVE a Jobo processor and I still use a Beseler rotating base!
    As do many others. Whatever works best for you is the right way to go.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    Whatever works best for you is the right way to go.
    Nicely put.

    More people need to reach this conclusion--photography is an art, after all.

    edit: carsten, this of course has nothing to do with you or your questions (which are very good, even the one you said was stupid!) :-) Just wanted to add that as this cropped up in your thread.
    Last edited by Jeremy; 15th January 2010 at 14:05.

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    No worries, I enjoy the banter, so please do go on

    I am trying to learn as much as I can in advance, and if possible, to have sufficient knowledge of everything I need to know and buy before I buy even the first component, so that I may make decisions which make sense in the context of the whole (even if I don't expect to make perfect decisions).

    I find LF to be much more componentised than other formats. I mean, in what other formats do you need to talk about lens board manufacturers, film holder manufacturers, shutter manufacturers (!), and on and on for decisions which is almost every smaller system are a given (closed systems).

    I have a vague feeling that I am getting it so far, but I still don't feel nearly ready to buy anything yet. First I want to have a a beginning-to-end workflow in my head, at least loosely.

    Funnily enough, I had already decided that 5 double-sided film holders was probably a good compromise between weight and travel, for local work, and then the 3010 has space for 10 sheets! Serendipity.

    Oh, for the Schneider lenses in Compur shutters, what cable release fitting do I need?

    Do I need grad filters? The shutter speed range seems kinda limited.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: LF (4x5) Newbie Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    I find LF to be much more componentised than other formats. I mean, in what other formats do you need to talk about lens board manufacturers, film holder manufacturers, shutter manufacturers (!), and on and on for decisions which is almost every smaller system are a given (closed systems).
    Think about it from the other way, though--anything that fits you can use regardless of brand. For example, I am shooting the same 250mm Fuji lens on a 4x5 Chamonix camera and 8x10 Kodak camera without the need for any adapters!

    A lot of the things you're mulling over are, for many LF photographers, moot.

    Couple of examples:

    I probably have lensboards from 4 different manufacturers, but it doesn't make any difference (other than cosmetics as there are color differences) which I use as long as it fits my camera.

    It doesn't matter what film holders you use as long as they're light tight and working.

    The hard part with large format starting out is because you have so many options it's hard to know which to pick, but you'll soon learn that for *most* LF things it really doesn't matter which one you pick, just that you pick something.
    Last edited by Jeremy; 15th January 2010 at 14:48.

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