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Thread: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

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    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Been thinking about upgrading my field camera from the current Zone VI to either the Linhof MT or one of the Ebony's. Anyone having experience working with either or both of these cameras I would like to hear your positive and or negatives experiences, opinions and comparisons.

    I like the idea of the precise geared movements of the MT, though some of the Ebony's do have a wider range of back movements which is a plus. I also like the idea of the non folding Ebony's due to the sizable weight savings but those cameras come with the universal bellows that leak infra red... not good for the Bettelight device. The MT also easily has the capability to add an MFDB, with Ebony's only one model is suggested for this.

    Thanks

    Rob

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Rob,

    I have (2) Ebonies and have had 3 total. I have had the SV45U, and currently the RSW45 and 45SU. I loved them all, but favored the non-folding. The 45SU is a beautiful camera, quick to setup with every movement you could want including asymmetrical rear tilts and swings. I use the RSW45 for 6x12 exclusively. I recently purchased an Arca M2 (my intro into MF digital) and will be selling my 45SU. I also have (2) Arca F Lines (4x5" and 6x9) and this is my reason for selling the 45SU as I do not travel enough to justify keeping it. If you are interested in purchasing a slightly used MINTY 45SU please PM me.

    Kind regards,
    Darr

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    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    Rob,

    I have (2) Ebonies and have had 3 total. I have had the SV45U, and currently the RSW45 and 45SU. I loved them all, but favored the non-folding. The 45SU is a beautiful camera, quick to setup with every movement you could want including asymmetrical rear tilts and swings. I use the RSW45 for 6x12 exclusively. I recently purchased an Arca M2 (my intro into MF digital) and will be selling my 45SU. I also have (2) Arca F Lines (4x5" and 6x9) and this is my reason for selling the 45SU as I do not travel enough to justify keeping it. If you are interested in purchasing a slightly used MINTY 45SU please PM me.

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    What bellows does your 45SU have? How much do you want to sell it for?

    Presumably then you prefer your AS cameras including the F-Line to the Ebony's. Is there much difference in weight?

    Thanks.

    Rob

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    Senior Member JimCollum's Avatar
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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    I use the Ebony 45SVTi with my Betterlight. You're right about the Universal bellows.. i use their normal and wide angle separately .... The Ebony is a pleasure to use (Mike Collette from Betterlight also uses the Ebony)

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    I've owned the Linhof tech (pre Master) and both the Ebony 45SU and SV45U2. Of those, my favorite to actually use in the field was the non-folding 45SU -- it is just such a sweet, Zen-like camera to focus and adjust; it just worked for me. The Ebony folder was a close second, the Linhof Tech a distant 3rd.

    If I ever get back into LF *film* shooting, I would get either that Ebony or maybe the the Chamonix -- or maybe both! -- and I'd get them in 5x7 with 4x5 reducing backs.
    Jack
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    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by JimCollum View Post
    I use the Ebony 45SVTi with my Betterlight. You're right about the Universal bellows.. i use their normal and wide angle separately .... The Ebony is a pleasure to use (Mike Collette from Betterlight also uses the Ebony)
    Have talked with Mike about his Ebony's and yes he seems to really favor them for sure. Like Jack I like the idea of the non folding, its just not clear to me if one can get a non infra red leaking bellows with those, well maybe on the 45SU not sure about the others. Thanks Jim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    I've owned the Linhof tech (pre Master) and both the Ebony 45SU and SV45U2. Of those, my favorite to actually use in the field was the non-folding 45SU -- it is just such a sweet, Zen-like camera to focus and adjust; it just worked for me. The Ebony folder was a close second, the Linhof Tech a distant 3rd.

    If I ever get back into LF *film* shooting, I would get either that Ebony or maybe the the Chamonix -- or maybe both! -- and I'd get them in 5x7 with 4x5 reducing backs.
    I wonder how the MT version would compare with your pre master. I had been leaning toward these non folders, but then saw a litany of MT's for sale and they look pretty cool too. Maybe I should get one of each, hehe. Both cameras seem to have an almost cult following, not a bad thing. Thanks for the info this does help.

    Rob

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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    What bellows does your 45SU have? How much do you want to sell it for?

    Presumably then you prefer your AS cameras including the F-Line to the Ebony's. Is there much difference in weight?

    Thanks.

    Rob
    The 45SU has the Universal bellows that came with it. I purchased it new from Badger Graphics 2.5 years ago and now they are selling for $4,150.00. I would like to get $3,200 and believe me it is as NEW. It is stored in a Gnass case (not included) and then stored in a Pelican case (not included). I am a girl and 'very fussy' about my stuff. I have used a 65mm, 90mm, and Cooke 229mm with it and never had any bellow issues. It has only been out of my studio twice and since moving to Tallahassee from the Miami area in 2007, it has been used only a few times for LF portraits. Since purchasing the RSW45, I use it exclusively for panoramic landscapes shots (an evolving project) and have not used the 45SU for what I intended it for: landscapes.

    I have always used an Arca in the studio (retired commercial photographer). The Arca is too heavy for me to take outside (5'2", 125#) so I bought the Ebonys, but prior I had a Wisner for many years. Since I just made the leap into MF Digital via the Arca M Line 2, I have chosen to stay with the Arca line because of the interchangeability and the amount of Arca accessories I already own.

    If you are serious about buying a 45SU, you would be foolish (economically) to not consider this camera. When I get the time, I was going to post it for sale at the LF Forum, but your posting came through my email box and I thought you may be interested. I have too many cameras and will be looking to purchase some MF Digital lenses in the near future so I feel I can let the 45SU go as it has been idle for too long, but I will miss its beauty for sure!

    If you want some pictures, let me know and I will make time on Sunday to shoot some.

    Kind regards,
    Darr

    This offer stands for anyone that may be interested.

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    I have the Ebony 45SU also and second the views that it is an exceptionally well made and beautiful camera.

    Gary

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    I should have clarified -- my issues with the Linhof folder were 1) the tiny adjustment knobs on the front standard, 2) the camera gymnastics required to shoot with anything wider than a 90 and 3) the lack of rear shift, rise and fall -- these were movements I used a *LOT* to final tune composition quickly and easily.

    By contrast -- and I mentioned the Ebony was Zen-like -- the asymmetrical movement axis on the Ebony were almost always nearly spot on to focus point for most landscapes, like probably 80% of the time, so made the Scheimpflugs a piece of cake. Front tilts and swings were axial for when you needed that, so you had best of both worlds in one camera that was really easy to use. Finally, not having to screw around with folding and being able to leave your lens mounted when you put the camera back in the bag made for *really fast* set-ups. And come on, who doesn't fall in love with the little mirror level on the rear standard? ()

    Crap. All this discussion has me really missing that little Ebony!!!
    Jack
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    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Crap. All this discussion has me really missing that little Ebony!!!
    As well it should......and the next step is?

    Gary

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    As well it should......and the next step is?

    Gary
    None... It isn't pratcial for use with a digi back, and I am 100% digital now...
    Jack
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    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    I should have clarified -- my issues with the Linhof folder were 1) the tiny adjustment knobs on the front standard, 2) the camera gymnastics required to shoot with anything wider than a 90 and 3) the lack of rear shift, rise and fall -- these were movements I used a *LOT* to final tune composition quickly and easily.

    By contrast -- and I mentioned the Ebony was Zen-like -- the asymmetrical movement axis on the Ebony were almost always nearly spot on to focus point for most landscapes, like probably 80% of the time, so made the Scheimpflugs a piece of cake. Front tilts and swings were axial for when you needed that, so you had best of both worlds in one camera that was really easy to use. Finally, not having to screw around with folding and being able to leave your lens mounted when you put the camera back in the bag made for *really fast* set-ups. And come on, who doesn't fall in love with the little mirror level on the rear standard?

    Crap. All this discussion has me really missing that little Ebony!!!
    Thanks Jack, that does help to clarify things. In the studio I use rear movements a lot, not having that option with the Zone VI hard to say if makes a huge difference for me in field work. But yeah the little mirror thingy, thats cool. The non folding idea seems great too, especially using a scan back in the field, the fewer steps the better.

    You guys got me going on this Ebony thing again.

    Rob

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    None... It isn't pratcial for use with a digi back, and I am 100% digital now...
    Makes sense (despite the aesthetic appeal of the Ebony <bg>).

    If I was going to start with a clean sheet of paper, so to speak, I doubt very much that I'd go with LF film now. Maybe something like the Arca M Line 2 or one of the tech cameras....such as the Cambo W-RS with the TS lens mount you reviewed. That would work for me.....of course, the all in cost is a lot higher going that route.

    The demise of Fuji Quickloads has me re-thinking LF film in a big way.

    Gary

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    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    For me, 4x5 falls a bit in-between. I have an Ebony SW23 that I use a lot with 120 film (6x9, stitched 6x17 using lens shift). For larger format I have my 8x10 Toyo monorail. In between, my Ebony 45S actually doesn't get used much. When I want to travel light I grab the SW23, if I go by car I might as well load the 8x10 backpack in the trunk. Maybe I should sell it - I just know that as soon as I do I'll need it again.

    Anyways I'm not a big fan of 4x5 metal folders. Perhaps I haven't seen any good designs.
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    Senior Member routlaw's Avatar
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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    For me, 4x5 falls a bit in-between. I have an Ebony SW23 that I use a lot with 120 film (6x9, stitched 6x17 using lens shift). For larger format I have my 8x10 Toyo monorail. In between, my Ebony 45S actually doesn't get used much. When I want to travel light I grab the SW23, if I go by car I might as well load the 8x10 backpack in the trunk. Maybe I should sell it - I just know that as soon as I do I'll need it again.

    Anyways I'm not a big fan of 4x5 metal folders. Perhaps I haven't seen any good designs.
    Thanks Lars, interesting your thoughts on 4x5 film holders. Never gave it much thought, just used them and they seemed to work ok. Don't recall ever having much problem other than an occasional scratched film from blowing sand.

    Regarding 8x10, rented one only once (big heavy cambo monorail type of deal) for a photo shoot down in Jackson Hole, WY that the client insisted on. Swore I would never use one again because it literally took two tripods to steady the thing enough for multi pop exposures which was necessary and that was using a Bogen 3058 tripod + 3263 geared head (together at least 25 lbs). No doubt field cameras are not so cumbersome and heavy but still not an ordeal I would want to repeat. I can certainly see the allure of them for landscape work though.

    Rob

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    Thanks Lars, interesting your thoughts on 4x5 film holders. Never gave it much thought, just used them and they seemed to work ok. Don't recall ever having much problem other than an occasional scratched film from blowing sand.

    Regarding 8x10, rented one only once (big heavy cambo monorail type of deal) for a photo shoot down in Jackson Hole, WY that the client insisted on. Swore I would never use one again because it literally took two tripods to steady the thing enough for multi pop exposures which was necessary and that was using a Bogen 3058 tripod + 3263 geared head (together at least 25 lbs). No doubt field cameras are not so cumbersome and heavy but still not an ordeal I would want to repeat. I can certainly see the allure of them for landscape work though.

    Rob
    Hehe I use one of those big heavy monorails in the field, Toyo 810G. Previously I used a Gandolfi Variant but needed something more stable. The Variant weighs about 4.5 kg whereas the Toyo is around 9 kg, but everything else weighs about the same so my 8x10 backpack went up from 20 to 25 kgs.

    It's certainly a different kind of photography than 4x5. All spontaneity is long gone, each shoot requires some degree of planning. I use two tripods if shooting 480 mm or longer lenses, I can see the challenge you got yourself into in a multiexposure shoot.
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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Rob, speaking from personal experience, the Ebony SW810 (for 810 work) is a joy to use in the field and COMPLETELY stable & just 8.5 pounds. In stock form, it will accept up to a 360mm but Ebony can customize the body for longer lenses.

    I found the SW810 to be much more stable, solid and rigid that any monorail (Arca & Sinar) that I have used in the field.

    IMO, LF under 8x10 is dead - might as well take a new DSLR and stitch if required.

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    Thanks Lars, interesting your thoughts on 4x5 film holders. Never gave it much thought, just used them and they seemed to work ok. Don't recall ever having much problem other than an occasional scratched film from blowing sand.

    Regarding 8x10, rented one only once (big heavy cambo monorail type of deal) for a photo shoot down in Jackson Hole, WY that the client insisted on. Swore I would never use one again because it literally took two tripods to steady the thing enough for multi pop exposures which was necessary and that was using a Bogen 3058 tripod + 3263 geared head (together at least 25 lbs). No doubt field cameras are not so cumbersome and heavy but still not an ordeal I would want to repeat. I can certainly see the allure of them for landscape work though.

    Rob

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tex View Post
    Rob, speaking from personal experience, the Ebony SW810 (for 810 work) is a joy to use in the field and COMPLETELY stable & just 8.5 pounds. In stock form, it will accept up to a 360mm but Ebony can customize the body for longer lenses.

    I found the SW810 to be much more stable, solid and rigid that any monorail (Arca & Sinar) that I have used in the field.

    IMO, LF under 8x10 is dead - might as well take a new DSLR and stitch if required.
    I don't think Rob ran into camera instability, once you get into longer lenses or bellows draws the tripod never has enough torsional stability. You just have to add a second tripod to dampen oscillations.
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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Rob, did you already see this old thread?

    http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/00EcxF
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Hehe I use one of those big heavy monorails in the field, Toyo 810G. Previously I used a Gandolfi Variant but needed something more stable. The Variant weighs about 4.5 kg whereas the Toyo is around 9 kg, but everything else weighs about the same so my 8x10 backpack went up from 20 to 25 kgs.

    It's certainly a different kind of photography than 4x5. All spontaneity is long gone, each shoot requires some degree of planning. I use two tripods if shooting 480 mm or longer lenses, I can see the challenge you got yourself into in a multiexposure shoot.
    Lars, you're an animal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tex View Post
    Rob, speaking from personal experience, the Ebony SW810 (for 810 work) is a joy to use in the field and COMPLETELY stable & just 8.5 pounds. In stock form, it will accept up to a 360mm but Ebony can customize the body for longer lenses.

    I found the SW810 to be much more stable, solid and rigid that any monorail (Arca & Sinar) that I have used in the field.

    IMO, LF under 8x10 is dead - might as well take a new DSLR and stitch if required.
    Hmm, with all due respect Tex I would have to disagree that 4x5 is DOA, albeit its end users have dropped like flies in recent years either because of MFD or as you say stitched 35 DSLR. I don't care for the rotational version of stitching for my own work but prefer the back shift or lens shift method. On many occasions I have taken my 35 mm Cambo Ultima/D3 into the field with superb results. The bad news is this camera is a dust whore used with the Ultima, really wide angle is impossible and there are limitations... not to mention the weight. I find composing a bit less satisfying and disconected for what ever reason when stitching vs full frame viewing too, but it is certainly a viable alternative.

    For now I am quite excited and becoming reasonably comfortable using my Betterlight in the field with 4x5 cameras and under the right conditions and if I have all my ducks in a row image quality is outstanding. For me I would rather lug the laptop and scan back insert vs 8x10 and subsequent film holders especially in some of the country I hike in. Yet once again there are limitations on just how far you can push this type of system. Not sure I would want to carry either system hiking up to Piegan Pass in Glacier National Park... taxi!

    Appreciate the feedback Tex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    I don't think Rob ran into camera instability, once you get into longer lenses or bellows draws the tripod never has enough torsional stability. You just have to add a second tripod to dampen oscillations.
    Exactly, that pretty much hits the nail on the head.

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Rob, did you already see this old thread?

    http://photo.net/large-format-photography-forum/00EcxF
    Thanks for the link Carsten, read through this one as well as quite a few on the LF forums too. I notice Brian Ellis continually shows up pitching for the MT. I think this conversation is much like the one you started on the MF forums and received some excellent comments I might add. Basically it boils down to what an individual is comfortable with or as Jack stated the "Zen" of the involvement with a given system.

    Appreciate the comments and link.

    Rob

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Rob, I appreciate your points about 45 and 57 however if I expend the energy to shoot LF, why waste time and money shooting 45 or 57?

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tex View Post
    Rob, I appreciate your points about 45 and 57 however if I expend the energy to shoot LF, why waste time and money shooting 45 or 57?
    Maybe overall size, weight and number of sheets you can carry on your back if you shoot more than a mile or so from your car?
    Jack
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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Tex, why waste time shooting 8x10 when you can shoot 11x14? or 20x24?

    4x5 is a sweet spot for many. A kit weighs about the same as a modest MF kit, and the film is readily available. 5x7 film is harder to find, and you might have to cut down from 8x10 yourself, and the prices of the cameras are noticeably higher than 4x5 in many cases, and sometimes not all that far from 8x10. 8x10 is another sweet spot, with enough film available, and plenty cameras, but cost becomes a major issue, as does weight. Anything larger than 8x10 is for freaks

    I would love an 11x14 camera myself. Maybe one day I might stretch to an 8x10 camera if I like 4x5 as much as I expect.
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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    On the topic of Ebony cameras (I have the 45SU)....the only thing I was disappointed with are the Ebony lensboards. The Ebony lensboard I received has a fake wood grain look which doesn't even come close to matching the dark (almost black) finish of the Ebony wood itself. It's probably a better match for their cameras made of mahogany.

    Even so, the Ebony lensboard looks a bit tacky to me (very much a fake wood grain look). I quickly ditched the Ebony board and bought five of the Wista lensboards....they are beautifully made and finished.

    The Wista lensboard is also $15 cheaper than the Ebony lensboard and about 1/3rd the price of a comparable Linhoff Technika lensboard.

    Everytime I pull this camera out of the closet and set it up (like today) I think I'd be crazy to every sell it....such a beautifully handmade piece of equipment.

    Gary
    Last edited by bensonga; 29th January 2010 at 14:18.

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    By the way....if anyone needs an Ebony lensboard, let me know....I'll be happy to send it to you (no charge).

    gary
    Last edited by bensonga; 29th January 2010 at 15:15.

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Sorry to say that and forgive me about it, i want Ebony or any LF in 8x10 size, but only NEW completely, not into "like-new" or second hand, i respect all of you as i know you are experienced and trusty, but i really want to be first hand to use my gear [i mean new from store or manufacturer, not from another shooter using it even few times ;-)]

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    I don't shoot 810 anymore - 11x14 now

    from personal experience I would not waste the time or energy shooting 45 again - a dinky little GG and miniscule film - a Sony 900 is a much better and less expensive alternative

    57 is ok but there is a limited selection of cameras, limited film and limited holders

    810 is where the fun begins - if it is too much trouble just stay at home and watch television





    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Tex, why waste time shooting 8x10 when you can shoot 11x14? or 20x24?

    4x5 is a sweet spot for many. A kit weighs about the same as a modest MF kit, and the film is readily available. 5x7 film is harder to find, and you might have to cut down from 8x10 yourself, and the prices of the cameras are noticeably higher than 4x5 in many cases, and sometimes not all that far from 8x10. 8x10 is another sweet spot, with enough film available, and plenty cameras, but cost becomes a major issue, as does weight. Anything larger than 8x10 is for freaks

    I would love an 11x14 camera myself. Maybe one day I might stretch to an 8x10 camera if I like 4x5 as much as I expect.

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Are you actually being serious or just jesting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    Sorry to say that and forgive me about it, i want Ebony or any LF in 8x10 size, but only NEW completely, not into "like-new" or second hand, i respect all of you as i know you are experienced and trusty, but i really want to be first hand to use my gear [i mean new from store or manufacturer, not from another shooter using it even few times ;-)]

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tex View Post
    810 is where the fun begins - if it is too much trouble just stay at home and watch television
    Hi Tex,

    Thanks for you point of view on when it's worth getting out with a LF camera (or not).

    I'm sure all of us shooting smaller LF film than you appreciate knowing that our time is better spent watching TV.

    Gary

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tex View Post
    Are you actually being serious or just jesting?
    Believe me, i am so serious, and you will never understand my crazy mind or thinking.

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Gary, you guys wouldn’t been seen with me. My gear is not color or wood coordinated like you fashion conscious shooters.

    Lighten up! Have fun!


    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    Hi Tex,

    Thanks for you point of view on when it's worth getting out with a LF camera (or not).

    I'm sure all of us shooting smaller LF film than you appreciate knowing that our time is better spent watching TV.

    Gary

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Pro, IMO most LF shooters rotate gear on a continual basis - there is not a perfect camera and needs/attitudes change with experience. Also most high end LF gear has been well maintained. Buying new IMO is not a viable alternative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    Believe me, i am so serious, and you will never understand my crazy mind or thinking.

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tex View Post
    Pro, IMO most LF shooters rotate gear on a continual basis - there is not a perfect camera and needs/attitudes change with experience. Also most high end LF gear has been well maintained. Buying new IMO is not a viable alternative.
    And???
    Sorry, will never change my mind to get new

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    I do try to have fun Tex, even when I'm out with my little bitty 4x5, instead of sitting in front of the TV.

    I know it's easy to fire off smart one-liners.....I've done it myself in years past, but I finally learned (mostly) that there are real people on the other end and it's not worth being disrespectful of other people's feelings and views, just to get off a cheap shot.

    Sorry if my views on the Ebony lensboards rubbed you the wrong way.....I'll be the first to admit I don't like tacky looking gear stuck onto the front of an otherwise beautiful camera, when something equally functional looks better. I am guilty as charged.

    Gary

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    If that type of interpretation of the situation and self righteous response makes you feel better, have at it - perhaps you should continue pontificating.

    In reality it was all in jest - I apologize if I hurt your feelings.

    BTW, Ebony lens boards are available in mahogany or ebony to match the camera body.



    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    I do try to have fun Tex, even when I'm out with my little bitty 4x5, instead of sitting in front of the TV.

    I know it's easy to fire off smart one-liners.....I've done it myself in years past, but I finally learned (mostly) that there are real people on the other end and it's not worth being disrespectful of other people's feelings and views, just to get off a cheap shot.

    Sorry if my views on the Ebony lensboards rubbed you the wrong way.....I'll be the first to admit I don't like tacky looking gear stuck onto the front of an otherwise beautiful camera, when something equally functional looks better. I am guilty as charged.

    Gary

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tex View Post
    If that type of interpretation of the situation and self righteous response makes you feel better, have at it - perhaps you should continue pontificating.

    In reality it was all in jest - I apologize if I hurt your feelings.
    Sorry if I misunderstood your point of view Tex. It is difficult to know when someone is speaking in jest on the web. I've been misunderstood too many times myself.

    BTW, Ebony lens boards are available in mahogany or ebony to match the camera body.
    Ahh.....makes sense, although Badger Graphic (where I purchased my 45SU) only seems to have the mahogany fake wood grain boards on their website. Odd that my ebony wood model would come with the mahogany lens board. Oh well, I'm happy with the Wista lensboards.

    Gary

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tex View Post
    from personal experience I would not waste the time or energy shooting 45 again - a dinky little GG and miniscule film - a Sony 900 is a much better and less expensive alternative
    Tex, this comment is interesting. Can you show me proof of a Sony 900 outperforming 4x5? I would love to see these results. Presumably then the Nikon D3x (single shot not stitched frames) would be better than 4x5 too?

    If memory serves me correct 39 mpix MFDB photographers on this forum claim their backs fall just shy of 4x5 quality. Look forward to your reply.

    Thanks

    Rob

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    Tex, this comment is interesting. Can you show me proof of a Sony 900 outperforming 4x5? I would love to see these results. Presumably then the Nikon D3x (single shot not stitched frames) would be better than 4x5 too?

    If memory serves me correct 39 mpix MFDB photographers on this forum claim their backs fall just shy of 4x5 quality. Look forward to your reply.

    Thanks

    Rob
    I have that 39 MFDB and also 2 film MF [6x6 & 6x7], with all that i dream everyday to go with LF, not 4x5 but 8x10.

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    Sorry to say that and forgive me about it, i want Ebony or any LF in 8x10 size, but only NEW completely, not into "like-new" or second hand, i respect all of you as i know you are experienced and trusty, but i really want to be first hand to use my gear [i mean new from store or manufacturer, not from another shooter using it even few times ;-)]
    Why? (Serious question)
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Why? (Serious question)
    Why about what?

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Why do you insist on buying new at great extra cost, even if the lens/camera has only been used a few times? It seems that no matter how much money someone has, there must be better ways to spend it than buying everything absolutely new.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Why do you insist on buying new at great extra cost, even if the lens/camera has only been used a few times? It seems that no matter how much money someone has, there must be better ways to spend it than buying everything absolutely new.
    It is a personal reason, i can't tell more.
    I said before that i will be very happy with new completely item even it doesn't work than a used one and few issues coming later, I had an issue with my 1DsIII last year and i was happy that it was new and i took it to service, if it was used then i may sell it, so when i have new and an issue occurs i say fine, if it is used about 80-90% i will blame myself that i bought it used and i may sell it if that issue or other issues happen.

    Last thing, i want to have all systems new, all my DSLRs are new, my only digital MF is new, only film MF i bought used and still i didn't use any of them to see, now if i will but LF for first time then i would like to have new one, if i will be another LF then i will go with used or second hand, if i buy 2-3 cars, always the first i want it new even it costs $1m, the others could be used.

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Professional, when the romance is over with your "NEW" LF gear, I am a buyer at 50% to 60% of what you paid (assuming it is in great condition).

    You will only lose 40% to 50% by selling to me or others on the board.




    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    It is a personal reason, i can't tell more.
    I said before that i will be very happy with new completely item even it doesn't work than a used one and few issues coming later, I had an issue with my 1DsIII last year and i was happy that it was new and i took it to service, if it was used then i may sell it, so when i have new and an issue occurs i say fine, if it is used about 80-90% i will blame myself that i bought it used and i may sell it if that issue or other issues happen.

    Last thing, i want to have all systems new, all my DSLRs are new, my only digital MF is new, only film MF i bought used and still i didn't use any of them to see, now if i will but LF for first time then i would like to have new one, if i will be another LF then i will go with used or second hand, if i buy 2-3 cars, always the first i want it new even it costs $1m, the others could be used.

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tex View Post
    Professional, when the romance is over with your "NEW" LF gear, I am a buyer at 50% to 60% of what you paid (assuming it is in great condition).

    You will only lose 40% to 50% by selling to me or others on the board.
    I have very very bad habit, which is i don't sell anything even old and not working or not used at all, i have about 30% of my gear many people asking me to sell, but i didn't, because of the same reason you pointed, 30-50% of the first price of it.

    If you have Canon, will you buy my EF 28-90? Will you buy my 1D markII N with about $2500? what price will you pay for my 1Ds mkII? the conditions of all my gear are Excellent or very good, that 28-90 is like new because i used it only twice.

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Why do some people insist on buying new items rather than used?

    Why does anyone care?

    In a venue where people can rave about the newest Leica camera that costs more than a car, why can't someone opt to buy something new rather than used? It may not be the most cost effective course, but the most cost effective course in buying the M9, for example, would be to wait a year and buy a used one at half today's price. Is anyone suggesting that not doing so is foolish?

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    It is not foolish, but it is not cost-effective either. In the end Professional is right: it is a personal decision. I like new things too, and try to buy specific things new, but if I had insisted on buying everything new, I would not own any MF equipment right now, and that loss would have been far greater to me than the loss of newness.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    It is not foolish, but it is not cost-effective either. In the end Professional is right: it is a personal decision. I like new things too, and try to buy specific things new, but if I had insisted on buying everything new, I would not own any MF equipment right now, and that loss would have been far greater to me than the loss of newness.
    To me only it depends on the gear i want to buy, if i know that i will buy something and i will use it less than other gear then i may go with used, i mean in the same system and one system to another [one format to another], for example: if i will use one large format camera, but 3 lenses, i prefer to buy new LF camera, about lenses i have to see, if one lens i will use about 80-90% then i buy it new, if another lens will be rarely used [20-30% of the time] then i will get it used. But i know that i will use that LF maybe 30-40% of my photography [or maybe less] comparing to all my digital cameras, that doesn't mean for me i will go with used LF camera, as long it will be the first one then i prefer it to be new.

    Now the question is: What is the cheapest 8x10 LF can i buy "New"? or let's say where i can find a cheaper 8x10 LF NEW? Don't worry about the budget, it is up to me if i can afford it or i have limited budget, i just want to have all options [new and used] so i can decide myself with what to go.

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Quote Originally Posted by routlaw View Post
    Tex, this comment is interesting. Can you show me proof of a Sony 900 outperforming 4x5? I would love to see these results. Presumably then the Nikon D3x (single shot not stitched frames) would be better than 4x5 too?

    If memory serves me correct 39 mpix MFDB photographers on this forum claim their backs fall just shy of 4x5 quality. Look forward to your reply.

    Thanks

    Rob
    I was kinda hoping we'd hear something from Tex on this one by now. I've got my credit card at the ready. Might trade my Ebony 45SU in for a Sony A900 and pull myself away from the TV.....just as soon as I see the proof in the pudding, so to speak.

    I have no doubt that images from the 20+ megapixel full frame DSLRs are very, very good.....but "much better" than a high quality scan of 4x5 film? I'm anxious to see the evidence supporting that conclusion.

    Gary

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Gary, perhaps you have been watching too much television OR overly concerned about coordinating colors/woods/textures with your “little bitty” 45SU OR have a reading/comprehension disorder BUT I did not (let me repeat for you “did not”) state that a A900 produced “much better” images than 4x5.

    I was using “much better” in the context of ease of use, versatility, time saving, cost saving from not having to purchase miniscule 4x5 film, scanning and processing. In fact, with proper technique, stitching with the Sony A900 will far exceed your “little bitty” 45SU.

    I have owned two 45SU’s and a Sony A900 and feel that I have a decent appreciation of the capabilities of each.

    I personally love LF photography but feel the cost/benefit ratio with “little bitty” 4x5 miniature cameras is not beneficial for MY STYLE OF SHOOTING. An 810 body and a DSLR is IMHO a perfect combo in the field.

    Have fun and lighten up – life is short!
    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    I was kinda hoping we'd hear something from Tex on this one by now. I've got my credit card at the ready. Might trade my Ebony 45SU in for a Sony A900 and pull myself away from the TV.....just as soon as I see the proof in the pudding, so to speak.

    I have no doubt that images from the 20+ megapixel full frame DSLRs are very, very good.....but "much better" than a high quality scan of 4x5 film? I'm anxious to see the evidence supporting that conclusion.

    Gary

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    Re: Ebony or Linhof Master Technika?

    Thanks for the clarification Tex. I guess both Rob and I thought your statement that "a Sony 900 is a much better and less expensive alternative" to shooting 4x5 film had at least something to do with better image quality.

    It's pretty obvious to most of us that a Sony A900 is more convenient to use and less expensive than shooting 4x5.

    Gary

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