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Thread: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

  1. #101
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post

    The one question mark is the "stuff" on one of the lens elements. I have taken some snaps to try to show what it looks like. The lens doesn't actually get foggy as it looks like in the third photo, that is just something to do with the angle and the light reflected off the table behind. In general, it looks a little like there is some dense dust in there, especially around the edges, but no spider webs. I am wondering if it might be the early stages of fungus.
    It could be, unfortunately. The only to get at it, is a full CLA. The one thing to try first, is removing the front and read elements -- they unscrew as a group -- and thoroughly blow off the outside surface of those inside elements. Hopefully it's dust there and you'll be done. If not, and it is on the surfaces inside the groups themselves, it's likely fungus...

    FWIW, lens fungus is contagious, so whatever you do, do NOT store that lens with your other lenses!
    Jack
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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    Hi, Jack, new photo!

    I forgot to do a follow-up post here: I took the lens off the shutter, and looked at everything very carefully. The haze is between the two elements in the front group, everything else, including every exterior surface, is squeeky clean. I just moved that lens clear across the room, will wipe down my other lenses, and will seal up the 135 tomorrow, until I find someone who can do the CLA. I got it for peanuts, and it looks like a really nice piece, so even if it is probably not worth it, I don't mind doing this. I feel like I am rescuing a lens

    I guess the first order of the day is to get that potential fungus taken care of. The gentleman who is selling me my Linhof MT (yes, more about this in the other thread) can do some maintenance on the shutter (dismantle, clean, lube, adjust, rebuild, has parts) to get the slow speeds back into proper order, but I don't believe that he can dismantle the lens itself. I have a couple of names of places which might do that, so I will check around.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Seriously, what I think you really want for your gravestone project is an older Schneider Xenar, like the 135 f3.8 or maybe 105 f3.5 or the rarer f2.8 "Xenotar" if you can find one.
    Found a nice Xenotar 150/2.8. Decided to pass:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=110495954201
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    WHOA! What the heck happened there? Are they that rare?
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    Not *that* rare. Here is Jack's link again:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=350310794335
    Carsten - Website

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    Let's clarify something -- that is not *MY* link, it is a link I found to somebody else's eBay auction --- I know nothing about the seller or the lens!
    Jack
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    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    When I pull up the first link, it says the lens sold for $38,988 (WHOA!! is right!). :-)

    Second link says it sold for $1,199.75 (a small whoa!).

    Either way, wish I had a shelf full of Xenotars to sell.

    Gary

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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    Jack, I only meant the link you had posted

    I have a feeling that the buyer of the $38k lens typed in 40000 instead of 4000 by mistake... I would be surprised if the lens really goes at that price. I expect to see it re-listed in a few days, after a squabble over the price.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    But that can't happen right? You need a counter offer to push it up that high. If they just typed 40,000, it would have pushed it as far as it needed to go to outbid the other bidder. The other bidder probably did not make the same error, so it is rather safe to say there were at least two people who were willing to pay 30,000 USD+ for this old lens!
    My photos are here: http://www.stuartrichardson.com and more recent work here: http://stuartrichardson.tumblr.com/ Please have a look at my book!
    My lab is here: http://www.customphotolab.is and on facebook

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    The $38K one was a "Linhof" badged version, in original Copal #3 shutter, and in mint condition -- and as I indicated several posts back, they are rare so I have little doubt it did go for that much. Honestly, the one I linked to at $1200 was a relative bargain for a shooter, but it had been remounted in new style Copal 3 so not a collector. If I were still shooting LF, I would have snatched the $1200 one up on it's Buy-It-Now in a nano-second.
    Jack
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    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    The $38K one was a "Linhof" badged version, in original Copal #3 shutter, and in mint condition -- and as I indicated several posts back, they are rare so I have little doubt it did go for that much. Honestly, the one I linked to at $1200 was a relative bargain for a shooter, but it had been remounted in new style Copal 3 so not a collector. If I were still shooting LF, I would have snatched the $1200 one up on it's Buy-It-Now in a nano-second.
    Ok, double WHOA! if someone really paid $38k for that Linhoff badged Xenotar. I had no idea these lenses could command that kind of price....for the right buyer.

    Gary

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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    FWIW, the shutter looks like a Compur.
    Carsten - Website

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    You're right, it was a Compur. Point was it's the original shutter it was mounted in. FWIW, the operational differences of Compur and Copal 3's is moot -- they are virtually identical.
    Jack
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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    I am happy with my 90/210 first set (and throw in the 135 Xenar). I know that 90/150/210 is more popular, but the multiplication factor from 90 to 135 is 1.5, and from 135 to 210 is almost 1.5, so I think the 135 is the better lens in the middle. 300 would be the next step in this progression.

    Anyway, my 135/3.8 Xenar got there, and in general, it is in fantastic condition. The very slowest shutter speeds (1s, 1/2s) sound like they might be a tad slow, and the turning of the shutter speed ring gets stiff towards 1/400s, almost as if there is an extra spring for that shutter speed only,...
    Well, there's a very good reason for that, the Compur shutters in fact do have an extra spring for the high speed, though they tend to be notoriously optimistic. I have never used the fastest speeds on any of my shutters, btw.

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    There is a little squeeze-type shutter-open lever, but when operated, it is a little stiff, and when released, the shutter returns sluggishly. I suppose T could also serve that function. In addition to the the shutter-open lever, aperture ring, shutter speed ring, shutter cocking lever and the shutter release, there is a little green knob which seems to be the flash sync setting (M or X), and then there is a little extra knobbie which I cannot determine the function of, about 8 O'Clock in the first photo, next to the shutter open lever. It slides perpendicular to the shutter speed ring, and I see a little lever running alongside the shutter speed ring move, when I slide the knobbie. It appears to serve as a lock or release to the shutter speed ring or the shutter itself, except that it doesn't actually do this. Anyone?
    You'd be surprised what some people think....that little button allows you to use your Compur Rapid MXV in V mode (V stands for "Vorlaufwerk", essentially german for self time), you depress the button towards the lensboard when cocking the lens, and it allows the cocking lever to travel past it's normal postion, cocking the self timer and allowing it to run. ****use with great caution unless you know this shutter has been recently CLA'd, as the self timer rarely gets used and frequently is gummed up, rendering a perfectly usable shutter into essentially a paper weight until you get it overhauled. (or are brave enough to press on the cocking lever to give it a little extra oomph)

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    The one question mark is the "stuff" on one of the lens elements. I have taken some snaps to try to show what it looks like. The lens doesn't actually get foggy as it looks like in the third photo, that is just something to do with the angle and the light reflected off the table behind. In general, it looks a little like there is some dense dust in there, especially around the edges, but no spider webs. I am wondering if it might be the early stages of fungus.
    I have run into this alot with schneider lenses, especially with Componons. (essentially a Symmar with increased cell spacing for enlarging ratios) The general concensus I've gotten from several repair types, typically revolve around outgassing of lubricants used in the manufacturing process depositing themselves on the glass surface. I (personallly) have had a 100% success rate in disassembly and cleaning of glass elements out of around 15 lenses. While I hesitate to rule out the possibility of fungus, in my personal experience, the likelyhood is pretty low.


    As to lens spacing, I typically carry 90, 135, 210, 300 in the field for my Sinar F.


    erie

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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    Jack, what is your opinion of the Nikon SW 4.5 90? I bought this recently and I am awaiting for it to arrive and use with my newly purchased Zone VI Wooden Field Camera. I already made sure I had a bag bellows. In addition I am going to use it with my Cambo SC-2.

    Jason

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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    I liked all the Nikkors, but compared to most other brands they are generally higher contrast, so ultimately migrated toward lower contrast Schneiders for that reason. But as it turned out, my first LF 90 was the Nikkor 4.5. It was an excellent lens, sharp and contrasty, though pretty heavy and bulky compared to its f8 brother. After a few months of carrying my gear in the field, I decided to lighten my load and started out by replacing the f4.5 Nikkor with the f8 version. It was equally sharp at the central 2/3rds of coverage, but the f4.5 was better as you got further out. Regardless, both are excellent choices depending on your needs.
    Jack
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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    I liked all the Nikkors, but compared to most other brands they are generally higher contrast, so ultimately migrated toward lower contrast Schneiders for that reason. But as it turned out, my first LF 90 was the Nikkor 4.5. It was an excellent lens, sharp and contrasty, though pretty heavy and bulky compared to its f8 brother. After a few months of carrying my gear in the field, I decided to lighten my load and started out by replacing the f4.5 Nikkor with the f8 version. It was equally sharp at the central 2/3rds of coverage, but the f4.5 was better as you got further out. Regardless, both are excellent choices depending on your needs.
    Jack, I imagine that the difference in coatings both inside and out would make that difference. My first purchase was a Schneider 5.6/12 180/310 Symmar convertible. I think this lens if its coated is single coated. Of course being new to LF most everything I read said start with a 210mm. I figured the 180 was good enough but I came across a Nikon W 5.6 210mm lens for $169 so I just could not pass it up. Likewise with the Nikon 90mm 4.5, I came across a deal for one at $499.00 so I felt at this price, I just could not afford to pass it up. I did a lot of research and reading prior to buying my lenses. I would suggest anyone do the same who is just starting to learn 4x5 photographery (a place where real photography starts. I am sure this has been said before but I will say it again. Two really important things to consider when purchasing a lens for LF is the projected image circle, and the angle of view. I wanted to make sure I had plenty of room to use my camera movements.

    Jason

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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    FWIW, in Nikkor 90's the f4.5 and f8 have the same spec'd IC @ 235mm.
    Jack
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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    Yes the image circle is the same but at different F/Stops. The 4.5 has the 235 image circle at F/16 while the F8 version is a 235 image circle at F/22. The 105 degree angle of view is the same as well at the respective F/Stops as the image circles. The F8 lens will weigh less and filters will be less expensive as it takes a 67mm filter that can be shared between it and a 210mm Nikkor 5.6 if you happen to own one. The 90mm 4.5 takes a 82mm filter size.

    From what I have researched the F 4.5 version give you sharpness and a bright corner to corner image. Nikkor SW lenses provide high contrast and resolution, reduced flare and excellent color rendition,due to Nikon's Integrated Coating and strict control of aberrations.

    Also from my research it shows that Nikkor SW lenses with a Max aperture of F/8 are compensated for distortion.

    I can see the advantage to the lighter weight, filter size, and lower cost of the Nikkor SW 90 F/8 lens, but I from what I have read there seems to be the suggestion that the Nikkor SW 4.5 90 might be slightly sharper with less distortion and possibly a little more flexible. Of course the disadvantages are cost and weight to get the faster glass.


    Jason
    Last edited by ComicDom1; 19th June 2010 at 11:26. Reason: to add more to the post.

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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    Your only choice (I feel) is the 90 5.6 SA
    On a Linhof, on a recessed board, it provides some amount of front standard movements.
    The 4.5 Rodenstock is mounted on (sadly) a #1 shutter . That means a flat board. That means the lens is closer to the film plane when lens rise time comes
    ...crunnnnch
    I think .... may be wrong, but if I am not mistaken the SA 90 XL rear element is not a good match for a Technika board, as the rear element is so, .... big ..... movements are somewhat constricted.
    On a Technikardan with a bag bellows ......... fine
    RM

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    Re: Which 90mm f/4.5 or f/5.6?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Frankly, I'd get one of the f8's -- as sharp, as easy (or difficult) to focus and half the weight. Again, the Schneider 90 f6.8 is an older Tessar design, not a more modern plasmat.
    The Schneider Angulon is a six element Dagor type lens in two fully cemented groups. A tessar type lens can only bring an angle of view of max 80. The Angulon up to 105

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