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Thread: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    I decided to put this in a thread of its own. I started by an answer in a thread by Elvind, “Digital back, options?” because this is not only about digital backs

    So what can I put on the back of my Chamonix 4x5?
    That was something I was wondering my self some time ago.
    I did not really find any one source with answers so I had to put together my own answer bit by bit. And this is not the complete answer, just my own answer based on my need and ideas of how I would like to use this camera.

    My first impression, after that I was surprised by its low weight and how well made it was, was that the groundglas looks realy good, with all the markings i want. From 6x4.5 and upwards in film size to 4x5. (not visible in the photo below :-( )

    It was no surprise that my film holders for 4x5 actually did fit and did fit well!

    I realise that i do not know how to mix text with pictures, so I will make one post per picture, sorry!

    Ray

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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    I want to have the possibility to shoot with roll film. I have two Horsman roll film backs, 6x7 and 6x9. And it was realy simple to remove the ground glass frame and install a Horsman back in the Graflock frame that is hidden below the ground glass. (It was much easier compared to my Sinar F!)
    It fitted rather good but it takes some force due to the thickness of the plate.

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    I LOVE the look of wooden cameras.
    This sample could be improved with wooden rails and standards :-).
    Now this is what a camera should look like as apposed to those new-fangled Oskar Barnack machines.
    -bob

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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    I was also locking on a 6x17 roll film back from China. But when I actually saw some pictures an the back mounted on a 4x5 camera I lost all interest! I had not realised how big the thing actually is! But it fits the Chamonix 4x5.
    So I went for a Sinar roll film back, adjustable between 6x4.5 to 6x12 whit is all I need. And the Sinar fits the Chamonix 4x5 very well!

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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    And I have some old Polaroid for 4x5, and that holder is also in “good hands” on the Chamonix 4x5. But the next step will of course be a holder for Fuji instant film!

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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    And now we go for the really neat pice:

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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Well Bob, I hope you dont mind that i put some electrons in your wood :-)

    Ray

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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    OMG!
    now it needs batteries
    -bob

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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    And it can do some more tricks:

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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    And the back of the adapter looks like this, with the P45:

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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    And what about the quality difference between film and digital?

    Well I will not jump in to that swamp!!!

    It is a mater of taste. What matters for me is what the result is on the wall!
    And I dont care one small bit of the back side of a small furry animal with long tail how I get there! But thats me.

    Ray

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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Well, one last before we ride of into the sunset!

    Later I will be back with som pictures of the other end of my camera.

    (And just let´s pretend that it is a specific "Cube" that the camera is mounted on )

    Ray

  13. #13
    Eivind
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Excellent explanation.. this was just what I was looking for.. !

  14. #14
    apneaimages
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Ray excellent!!!
    Do you maybe have found out if there is existing a holder for Fuji instant film?
    The widepan for hasselblad is it really a rotared back and takes Hasselblad H or V mount backs or Phase one mounts to?

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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Lambis,

    Fuji makes a 4x5 Quickload film holder: http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/FE1...ELAID=36796349

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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Bob,

    The base, rear extension rails and focus rack of the Cham are made of a carbon fiber composite. This keeps the camera very light, around 3 pounds total with 4x5 GG back, and very rigid... Not bad for a sub-$1000 camera, eh?

    ,
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    apneaimages
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    Lambis,

    Fuji makes a 4x5 Quickload film holder: http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/FE1...ELAID=36796349
    Thanks Stephen.

    Question is if 3x4 films as FP-100C or FP-100B fits on a Fuji 4x5 Quickload holder to.

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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Lambis,

    Polaroid still seems to make backs for various cameras: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/shop/4...era_Backs.html

    I'd think that one could be adapted.

    Steve

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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Lambis, sorry for a slow answer.

    The widepan has a standard Hasselblad V mount.
    That means that you have to remove the digital back and rotate it to you prefered orientation. For my P45 it takes about 5 seconds to do.

    Here is a link to where I bought mine:
    http://www.fotodiox.com/catalog/prod...roducts_id=111

    But there is a lot of different adapters on ebay.

    Ray

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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    I think this is my favorite thread in here. Your setup is soooo nice!

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    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Ray,

    Thanks for the entertaining and interesting post! I just purchased a Horseman 6x12 back to use on my Sinar P and Ebony 45SU. I'm thinking about the Widepan adapter to use with my Hasselblad CFV-II digital back on the same cameras, so I was very interested to see your setup. Is your Widepan a "sliding adapter" back or one that you have to take the MF digital back off in order to focus on the ground glass and then re-attach the MFDB to take the picture? I couldn't make that out from your photos and description.

    In general....how do you like the Widepan adapter? Is it well made?

    Gary
    Alaska

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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    I am glad if the thread is useful to others.
    I would have liked to read it when I first started thinking about 4x5

    The adapter that I show in this thread is an adapter specially made to move the DB in order to make stitched pictures, so we can call it a sliding (posting 9 in this tread shows movement on the adapter)

    In order to focus and adjust any movements on the camera I have to remove the DB and mount the ground glass on the adapter (se post 6 in this thread).

    I have another adapter that I mainly use on my Sinar F that is a "moving" adaptor with a fix ground glass in a separate position on the adapter. The negative thing about this solution is that the adaptor is much longer due to the fact that this solution requires separate positions for ground glass and DB.
    And this adaptor only have one position for the DB, so it is not what I mean by “sliding adaptor”.

    The quality of both adaptors is good. They feel very rigid and movements are smooth.

    But I am at the moment thinking about another solution. And that is to buy a extra frame that holds the Graflock system on the camera.
    And on one frame have the DB mounted on the sliding adaptor and on the other frame mount the ground glass that came with the camera. That is to use the larger ground glass for focusing and composition of the picture. The ground glass on the adaptor is not that big.

    And the frame for the Graflock system is hold in place by two latches on top of the camera. It takes only a few seconds to switch a frame this way.
    But, still untested in practise.
    Only tested in theory

    Ray

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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Ray

    First great post and images. Up till now I didn't think one could use a digital back on large format cameras; then again I'd ask myself the question of why and I already think I know the answer. "If you have to ask you won't understand" - correct?

    The reason for the question is the limitation of the sensor size when compared to the film size with the sensor size being the Achilles heel; you can only go so large.

    I fully understand and appreciate the humongous increase in lens quality as I moved to my WRS and Schneider lenses so is there yet another leap by going this route?

    Just curious

    Don
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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Hi Don!

    “Concerned citizen has a right to know”

    There is for me a simple reason, flexibility!
    I do not know of any other “camera system” that gives you a larger degree of flexibility than the Graflock system.

    I bought first an old Sinar F and some lenses and realised the possibilities with the Graflock system. But the Sinar, witch is a monorail camera, is not that portable, so I got my self a Chamonix 4x5. And suddenly I have a portable system that can handle almost anything invented for camera use (a slight exaggeration).

    And the use of a digital back is only one of many possible configurations.
    All my lenses have a image circle of at least 200 mm witch give me a possibility to use pathological levels of camera movements with my P45.
    There is no end to the number of lenses available that I can use.

    And all this at a cost that is very low compared to a new technical camera with a couple of lenses. You could of course argue that the new lenses is superior to my older lenses. But for me this difference has no practical meaning. When I have finished with my pixel massage in PS and put the picture on paper, it does not matter much that my lens is not the sharpest thing in the extreme corners...

    I do not care much about how my pictures looks, I am much more concerned with how they feel. It is all about having the possibility to experiment and follow what´s comes up in the moment.
    And if you have no clue to what you are going to do tomorrow, then it is good to have maximum flexibility in your system at a not to high price.

    But if you look at the large format camera as just a system to hold the lens at the right distance from the DB, there is of course no differens or gain in using a LF system compared to a new technical camera.

    I include one picture just to show what kind of pictures I am after (this is not a LF photo, just for illustration of point).

    But not even the possibility of my 4x5 system is always enough.
    I am at the moment having a deep and meaningful love affair with a couple of Mamyia 6 range finders and a lot of old frozen Portra VC ASA 400 film.
    To many possibilities, to little time...

    But standing on a windy beach with my camera bellows flying in the wind, I would not complain to have your technical camera instead.

    Ray
    Last edited by Grayhand; 12th July 2009 at 00:22. Reason: Spelling

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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Nice image Ray!

    Is it a bird flying that we see in the lower left corner?
    Which lens did you use on the Chamonix for that image?

    What is the widest lens you are using on the Chamonix with the P45?
    Although I can use the 47 XL on a plain lens board with the Chamonix, and probably a 35mm with a recessed board, I doubt a 24mm could be accommodated. That might be one area where a technical camera is preferable.

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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    If you want to see some more of the Chamonix, here is a review I did about 18 months ago: http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    If you want to see some more of the Chamonix, here is a review I did about 18 months ago: http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178
    Oh crap I really have to ban myself from here
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    If you want to see some more of the Chamonix, here is a review I did about 18 months ago: http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178
    Yes, after seeing your review, I ended up ordering one!
    Mine in Canadian maple, just like yours

    Now, I am tempted to get the 8x10 version.

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    The one that intrigues me is the 5x8 with both a 5x8 and 5x7 back

    But I have to admit to a certain love affair with the non-folding Ebony 45SU...
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Senior Member Grayhand's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Francois, that photo is not taken with my Cham, only included to illustrate what kind of photos I take.
    I am at the moment living in my camping car so I have a limited access to my older photos.
    In the left corner is the top of a tele com mast that I forgot to clone out

    Because I am not a “interest in the foreground, view in the background” kind of photo guy, I dont use much wide angle lenses.
    I go more for normal to tele lenses.
    The widest at the moment is a 90 mm lens, and I will later ad a 65-75 mm lens. But I do not plan for anything wider.

    Well Jack, I suppose I also have to lay a large part of the reason for buying my Cham at your feet because of that thread.

    And Don, “ban” never helps, it is better to just give in, we all do in the end anyway

    Ray
    Last edited by Grayhand; 14th July 2009 at 01:43. Reason: Spelling

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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Every time I tell myself not to open this thread it somehow opens all by itself..

    Oh what the, he double hockey sticks - there's just too much good information here.

    Yeah I'll be back

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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    But I have to admit to a certain love affair with the non-folding Ebony 45SU...
    Jack....I dare say, it's a purchase you won't regret.





    Gary
    Alaska

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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Hi Gary:

    Beautiful! I had one for quite a while and loved using it. In fact, it may be the ideal 4x5 for a field landscape shooter
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Hi Gary:
    Beautiful! I had one for quite a while and loved using it. In fact, it may be the ideal 4x5 for a field landscape shooter
    Ahh...then I'm sure you know the camera better than me. I've had it for about 18 months and only run a dozen sheets of film thru it. Gotta get out there more. I bought one of the Horseman 6x12 roll film backs recently, so maybe I'll get out this weekend and give that a try. I tried the Horseman on my Sinar P and it works well....I'm assuming it will fit on the Ebony.

    Gary

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    It'll fit, but FWIW, I am not a huge of roll-film backs on a 4x5 unless they are the Sinar/Calumet slide-in style. The Grafloc style are a PITA to use as you have to remove the GG after composition, then reattach it to compose... For the ease of use, readyloads were my favorite and you have the advantage of mixing emulsions as the image merited.

    The other issue with that camera and an MF roll back (and even worse for a digital back) is the assym rear tilts and swings put the axis of pivot off or at the edge of the frame, not at a logical point...

    But it is magic to use with 4x5 sheets
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    It'll fit, but FWIW, I am not a huge of roll-film backs on a 4x5 unless they are the Sinar/Calumet slide-in style. The Grafloc style are a PITA to use as you have to remove the GG after composition, then reattach it to compose... For the ease of use, readyloads were my favorite and you have the advantage of mixing emulsions as the image merited.

    The other issue with that camera and an MF roll back (and even worse for a digital back) is the assym rear tilts and swings put the axis of pivot off or at the edge of the frame, not at a logical point...

    But it is magic to use with 4x5 sheets
    Yeah, I'm not sure how much I will like or use the roll film holder, but I figured the 6x12 was worth a try. Thanks for the observation about the position of the focus point re the assym tilt/swing....something I'll keep an eye on (no pun intended!).

    I have a good supply of Fuji Quickloads (Acros and Provia) and even of the Polaroid Type 55 in the frig....just need to get out there and use it now.

    Gary

    Gary

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    Re: What´s the back of my Chamonix 4x5?

    I just wished I had not learned Cham makes an 8x10. It's new prices is right there with some used Deardorff's.

    Maybe I need some time at crap table in the Reno Hilton or the roulett wheel in the Vegas Hilton.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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