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Starting 8x10 view camera

johnastovall

Deceased, but remembered fondly here...
I'm wanting to get back into LF film work. I'm wanting to do 8x10 contact printing.

My heart says get an 8x10 Deardorff but my pocket says, "See what the other options are."

What are my other options in 8x10?
 

Lars

Active member
I got two Toyo 810G monorails off ebay a few years ago, when studio photogs were running towards digital capture. But they are arguably "a bit" awkward in the field - think 70 lb backpack.

I also have an 8x10 Gandolfi Variant in walnut, great camera although only double extension. I smashed it up a bit in a storm in Australia (the center filter for the 150XL took the brunt of the fall onto granite) so I need to ask Gandolfi to rebuild it.

My first 8x10 was a Wisner Pocket Expedition. It was superlight but way too flimsy, I returned it after a week.

Keep in mind that stability requirements when stepping up from 4x5 to 8x10 are far more than a factor of two, I'd say 10x if you want to take advantage of the film real estate. Not so much of an issue when contact printing though.

Other options:

If you can find a used Toyo 810M metal field for a good price then that's a great field camera a little heavy but built like a tank.

Shen Hao makes good cameras that are a great value.

Don't even look at Ebony unless you want to take out another morgage, Ebony cameras will seduce you. Just don't.

Other brands for new field cameras: Canham, Seagull (same as Shen Hao), Chamonix (not sure if they make an 8x10), Tachihara, Walker. Linhof and Arca-Swiss of course.

Some outlets:
US: Badger Graphic http://www.badgergraphic.com great prices and service.
England: Robert White http://www.robertwhite.co.uk great prices very knowledgeable and a joy to do business with.

It all depends on how you will use the camera and what your priorities are - weight, portability, cost, technical flexibility, setup speed (relatively speaking hehe) and convenience.

I hope this helps please feel free to ask more specific questions.

And don't forget the option of using hybrid processes and digital negatives to do contact printing. Jim Collum has done a great deal of that. You could for example use a 4x5 camera, scan and print to an 11x14 digital negative and do a platinum print from that. It takes a little extra work but it's a very enjoyable process with very personal results, truly a craft.

Lars
 

Jeremy

New member
John,

If you haven't used a Deardorff before I have a 5x7 Deardorff which should give an idea of how the 8x10 handles plus an 8x10 Agfa/Ansco, 8x10 Calumet C-1, and an 11x14 Burke & James (which is very similar to the 8x10 B&J, just bigger) if you're interested in some hands on. I'm about 2 hours away from you according to Google Maps.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
I have no idea what a basic Deardorff brings now, but I suspect not too much. However, as Lars mentioned, a Toyo or older style Arca are usually under $1000. The holders are the hard -- and expensive -- part to find! Also look at Chamonix!
 

Lars

Active member
Yep holders... I have about 15 I think, bought most of them used. Some are quite old with brittle darkslides, newer darksliders are of more flexible material. If you buy second hand holders make sure the darkslides have undamaged edges otherwise you might get light leaks. Start out with 2 new holders so you have something you can trust before venturing into second hand.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Lars, the only new holders I am aware one can buy are Chamonix, Canham and Lotus. Lisco/Fidelity went out of business a few years back.
 

Lars

Active member
Jack - good to know.

John - do you have any thoughts yet re lenses you will want to use?
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Another choice to consider is Cambo and Sinar. There is a Deardorff on ebay with a $595 Buy-It-Now, but it is the basic one, not the full movement version.
 

johnastovall

Deceased, but remembered fondly here...
I had looked at a Toyo and it looks good. I'll keep doing more looking.

Good question on the lens. I'm looking to to both landscape and buildings with it.

Suggestions for ones to look for?
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Divide by 6 to get approximate 35mm equivalent focal length.

moderately wide: 210 G-Claron will cover 8x10 with a bit of room and is reasonably priced.

wide-normal: 240 G-Claron covers with room, affordable.

Normal: 300 G-Claron is very good, has quite a bit of room and is relatively inexpensive, a 300 Nikkor M just makes 8x10, and 300 Fujinon A or C cover with a bit of room.

The really wide 8x10 lenses get more esoteric and expensive. If you can find a Protar IV 190, it is a great 8x10 lens and tiny. The Super Symmar 150 XL is very good, but large and expensive.

If you can find one, the Cooke XVa Triple Convertible is stunning, and you get three focals in one lens; a 311, 476 and 646 -- this was one of my favorites, but expensive, and I rarely used it other than at 311 -- and you need a lot of bellows to focus a 646! :)D). I also really liked the 12 inch Gold Dot single-coated "Kern" Dagor.
 

Tex

Subscriber Member
Jack (speaking from personal knowledge), Calumet has a BIG inventory of new 810 Fidelity holders AND 57's.

Calumet owned Fidelity before it closed.

John, please note (as Lars mentioned) that 810's are/can be a huge PIA in the field.
 
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Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Robert, that is good news, thanks!

John, my advice is to call them tomorrow and get yourself a dozen new holders. From experience, I can tell you that dorking around with used holders can be a time suck and major PITA.
 

johnastovall

Deceased, but remembered fondly here...
Robert, that is good news, thanks!

John, my advice is to call them tomorrow and get yourself a dozen new holders. From experience, I can tell you that dorking around with used holders can be a time suck and major PITA.
Good idea but it'll have to be Monday. I'm headed to Austin tomorrow to pick up an R APO 180/3.4 and maybe if they'll horsetrade an R 90/2.0 'Cron for my new/old SL2 and Canon bodies.
 

Don Hutton

Member
The Chamonix 8x10 is a fabulous field camera - light, ultra rigid and a very sensible design. I have one and own it in preference to just about every other 8x10 field camera ever made - and I have owned most of them!
 

Uaiomex

Member
I agree. The Chamonix seems to be the best option these days. However, I've owned a 4X5 Tachihara for 15 years and never regreted buying it. Check it out.
Eduardo

The Chamonix 8x10 is a fabulous field camera - light, ultra rigid and a very sensible design. I have one and own it in preference to just about every other 8x10 field camera ever made - and I have owned most of them!
 

Lars

Active member
Wider lenses for 8x10... Here's what I have owned, longest focal length first:

Fujinon-W 250/6.7 (I think it's 6.7, it's the older 250): 398 mm image circle great for architecture. Sharp. Odd Seiko shutter I had to cut a special lens board. Mine is single-coated.

Apo-Symmar 240: Not really a wide lens, not much movement on 8x10. Bright groundglass image, very sharp, good microcontrast. Heavy in Copal 3 shutter.

Fujinon-A 240/9: Sweet little lens in a 0 shutter, ideal for backcountry work. Too dark for composing and focusing at dawn which is my favorite light, so I sold it.

Fujinon-W 210/5.6 (older design): Great lens for 8x10, in Copal 1 shutter, 352 mm IC covers with margins. Hits the sweet spot as moderate wide for 8x10. Hard to find, a keeper.

Super-Symmar XL 150/5.6: This lens is ridiculously good for 8x10. 400 mm image circle so you can do a full vertical shift. Groundglass image gets a bit dark because of its wide coverage. Resolution and sharpness is all there, it takes my drum scanner for a workout at 2000 dpi. Center filter required for color film, on B/W neg film I think it's a matter of taste. Expensive but probably good resell value. Filtration is a little bit tricky on such a wide lens, but it has a 62 mm rear thread which is very handy. For grads I use a Lee holder with a 112 mm slip-on adapter that fits on the center filter.

Currently I pack Cooke XVa (311/473/646 mm), Fujinon 210, SSXL 150. Sometimes the Fujinon 250 if shifts needed.

Here's a handy list of specs for some lenses:

http://graflex.org/lenses/lens-spec.html

A comment on studio monorails: The added weight in these cameras puts a strain on camera support. You need to step up tripod and head size one or two steps. I went from Gitzo 3-series to 5-series when going from wood field to Toyo monorail, and to fully utilize resolution I still need two tripods when using long lenses. Likewise the Arca-Swiss B1 got too flimsy (to be honest, a ball head is not a good idea for 8x10 but I guess I was stubborn). So unless you have a very sturdy body frame you need to work out of a car when using a monorail system. Supertrekker is a great backpack for 8x10 BTW.
 

Jeremy

New member
Wider lenses for 8x10... Here's what I have owned, longest focal length first:

Fujinon-W 250/6.7 (I think it's 6.7, it's the older 250): 398 mm image circle great for architecture. Sharp. Odd Seiko shutter I had to cut a special lens board. Mine is single-coated.

The f/6.3 covers 8x10 with movements (and you can get them in Copal #1 shutters, the latest ones came in these). The f/6.7 is the newer version and *barely* covers 8x10 stopped down.

My 8x10 "sharp lens" setup is the 250mm and 360mm f/6.3 Fujis.
 

Lars

Active member
The f/6.3 covers 8x10 with movements (and you can get them in Copal #1 shutters, the latest ones came in these). The f/6.7 is the newer version and *barely* covers 8x10 stopped down.

My 8x10 "sharp lens" setup is the 250mm and 360mm f/6.3 Fujis.
Actually, that does not seem to be quite accurate - the currently sold 250 f/6.3 (listed at Robert White) is speced as covering 320 mm at f/22.

My sample is labeled on an inside ring around the front element "FUJINON-W S 1:6.7/250 FUJI PHOTO OPTICAL CO. 250888 LENS-JAPAN". Front thread is 67 mm, rear element has an outer diameter of 65 mm. The shutter says "Seiko" on front and "LS 24 made in Japan" on the side. I measured the IC again and at f/32 it covers just about 400 mm. It's very clearly single-coated. According to Kerry Thalmann the original W 250/6.7 lens was replaced by a f/6.3 version about 1979, so it would seem that my sample is of the original W 250 series. EBC multicoating was introduced in 1977-1982 (Thalmann) which further dates my sample to late seventies.
 
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Jeremy

New member
Actually, that does not seem to be quite accurate - the currently sold 250 f/6.3 (listed at Robert White) is speced as covering 320 mm at f/22.

My sample is labeled on an inside ring around the front element "FUJINON-W S 1:6.7/250 FUJI PHOTO OPTICAL CO. 250888 LENS-JAPAN". Front thread is 67 mm, rear element has an outer diameter of 65 mm. The shutter says "Seiko" on front and "LS 24 made in Japan" on the side. I measured the IC again and at f/32 it covers just about 400 mm. It's very clearly single-coated. According to Kerry Thalmann the original W 250/6.7 lens was replaced by a f/6.3 version about 1979, so it would seem that my sample is of the original W 250 series. EBC multicoating was introduced in 1977-1982 (Thalmann) which further dates my sample to late seventies.
You are correct, Lars, I grabbed the wrong lens from the cabinet to check. Have only been shooting with the 360mm lately and must have had f/6.3 baked into my mind.
 
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