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Thread: The M9 Chat Box

  1. #101
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Here's a shot at Glazers today at ISO 1250 with 35 cron wide open. Yes, it's a measly jpeg but I think you get an idea of what the camera does. I also find that since the files are so sharp to begin with they can take quite a bit of noise reduction in post. None here though, just some punched up curves in LR.

  2. #102
    Member Hank Graber's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Well it seems Leica has been listening. Every feature on just about everyone's wish list (save price) has found it's way into the M9 and X1. Full frame, no IR filters, external exposure control, menu selectable lens, very high res, etc.,...

    As far as using Seal and the marketing malarkey about fine wines. Whatever sells cameras. Amateur's are the main consumers of all high end cameras and a manual rangefinder is never again going to be a mainstream pro tool no matter what Leica does to the camera. It's an oddball niche product for amateurs and pros alike. Amazing that it's managed to survive in a digital age where marching to a different drummer and serving anything less then a mass market are generally a recipe for financial failure.

    The S, M and X represent an incredible level of engineering execution for tiny Leica. I have no idea how well they will sell, the economy being what it is, but I'm sure at least the M9 will do well. Had they had this trio out at the height of the credit bubble they would not have been able to meet demand on any of them.

    Shooting an M9 at ISO 1250-2500 with any Summilux or that .95 unobtanium Noct in low light sounds appealing enough to auction off an organ for

  3. #103
    Senior Member Erik Five's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    To all who responded to my last post about the presentation:

    I know that the companies make 95% of their money through non Pro´s, BUT my take on the subject is that most people would probably put more faith in a Pro photographers statement about Leica´s cameras and lenses than a singer. Riccis knows Seal and says that he takes great pictures and I believe him when he says that, but I have never seen Seal´s photos so I have no first hand experience on that matter. You dont need a famous person to do a presentation like that. Not many people know the names or faces of famous photogs, but if Leica had one and said "This is famous Magnum/VII(or whatever/whomever photographer)" every Leica D-Lux amateur would believe them and every Pro and amateur that is genuine interested in photos would know it as a fact.
    My point is that I dont understand how Seal will sell more cameras from a marketing point of view regardless if you are a amateur or a Pro. I think its cool that Seal is so into cameras and that he actually participates in the forum chats etc, but it doesnt give me the urge to buy a camera. I would much rather have the guy who took the Cuba/Boxing pics up there talking. Someone who could have said "I have used this for work for the last month and I cant see myself using anything else in my line of work". I would presume that the amateurs out there would want this as well. Every time I get a CPN newsletter its some photographer who has used some of the latest equipment who tells about it and since he is a photographer I immediately dont think "does he know what he is talking about?". If Seal would tell me about an artist, a instrument or anything about music I would immediately brush of that little voice in the back of my head that wonders if this person knows what he is talking about or not. As ive said, I dont know Seal´s photographic work so its hard for me to see him as a reliable source when it comes to buying a camera or not. I have a sense that he is pretty darn adequate when it comes to photography though, but I have no first hand experience to back that up. I cant understand that an amateur would think: "Oh, he is a great singer so he must know a lot about cameras as well". We all know he loves photo, gear and has taken photos for many many years, but wouldnt any of you feel that It would be strange if Bruce Springsteen was launching the Canon 1d mkIV and had a pre prod model for a month that he would talk about on stage? I dont think a amateur would be so star struck that he would think of Bruce as an reliable source if he wanted to spend 7K$ on a camera. I know that Leica is very very niché, but still... Again. No offence to Seal. He seems like a very cool guy and I know he has a passion in photography. If seal took the boxing pictures it would have been another matter

  4. #104
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Erik your point is well taken and to add my thoughts I would rather see a Pro photographer regardless of celebrity status but more importantly a person that has their preverbal neck on the line day in and day out. I have more faith in someone that works their butt off to make a living and has real clients to answer too and real demands on his gear. To me that says he or she has confidence in the gear to get the work done and done well but also the ability to the demands of robustness in the system and with satisfaction in the repair, service, parts and accessories to maintain their system. You don't just buy a camera you buy a system with all it's parts and I would have more faith with someone that shows that in their daily work. I have no issues with Seal as a person seems like a really nice guy and all that. But like you said he is a hobbyist just like anyone else and if a camera goes down or misses a shot it's not really a issue. There is no risk involved. I want to hear from the cliff hanging shooters with his neck on the line. Too me that would sell camera's and systems. First thing you say to yourself if it is working for him or her than it will work for me.

    But I will say it was nice listening to him and his enthusiasm towards shooting Leica's but that alone won't sell me put the next guy up that is ripped to shreds from hanging off the cliff trying to get a shot for a client. Now that says something
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Ahhh, if it were only true. Unfortunately, people say one thing, but very often do the opposite.

    These Trade show type presentations often have some celebrity as a draw, something to slap faces and get mass attention. Nothing more to it IMO.

    I also wonder if a well known photographer ... or at least one that's busting a hump really would sway me? Since I don't like the Cuba boxing pics at all ... that wouldn't, and didn't, work on me. In fact it makes me suspect the camera isn't what I'm looking for ... since it looks so ... digital ... which the DMR and M8 did not. But I chalk it up to over processing and will reserve judgement until I see more stuff from the M9 ... especially some B&W stuff.

    So far, people posting barely focused images with horrible WB aren't doing Leica any favors.

  6. #106
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    So far the only thing I have seen and I am seeing some red bias in most images but Jono's are looking much better

    http://www.slack.co.uk/M9

    I think and i don't have the damn thing but a lot of people are shooting with the shipping firmware and the new firmware is what they should be updating which is 1.02

    I don't understand why their is no immediate announcement on this but any dealers out there i would advice your customers to update when they get home with it. I'll be perfectly honest here I am seeing a heavy red bias and will reserve judgment on this because LR, ACR, Aperture and C1 will mostly likely need a update as well.

    But I could use some raws to test it out more and pick it apart
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  7. #107
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Erik your point is well taken and to add my thoughts I would rather see a Pro photographer regardless of celebrity status but more importantly a person that has their preverbal neck on the line day in and day out. I have more faith in someone that works their butt off to make a living and has real clients to answer too and real demands on his gear. To me that says he or she has confidence in the gear to get the work done and done well but also the ability to the demands of robustness in the system and with satisfaction in the repair, service, parts and accessories to maintain their system. You don't just buy a camera you buy a system with all it's parts and I would have more faith with someone that shows that in their daily work. I have no issues with Seal as a person seems like a really nice guy and all that. But like you said he is a hobbyist just like anyone else and if a camera goes down or misses a shot it's not really a issue. There is no risk involved. I want to hear from the cliff hanging shooters with his neck on the line. Too me that would sell camera's and systems. First thing you say to yourself if it is working for him or her than it will work for me.

    But I will say it was nice listening to him and his enthusiasm towards shooting Leica's but that alone won't sell me put the next guy up that is ripped to shreds from hanging off the cliff trying to get a shot for a client. Now that says something
    Guy, Erik,
    Why should i, as an amateur, give more thrust to a pro, like you Guy for instance (no pun intended), than to a famous person like seal? Not all pro's are like you describe, nor does that give me an indication whether that particular system is ok for me.

    At the end of the day i believe it is about what suits one selves. Just like you said in earlier posts: give me some raw to start with, explain how test was done, above all take the time to test for yourself before engage in a system with its support. Indeed one buys a system and the support backing it up, regardless of what brand or model you buy.

    So i do believe from a marketing point of view, which in essence about getting awareness, Seal is as good as any other well known person, not necessarely a famous photographer. For me personally the choice to buy or not is based on my own as objective as possible evaluations, with a touch of bias towards Leica.
    Forums like these give me value in those evaluations, as do certain review sites, simply because the contributos/reviewers focus more on arguments (facts as they perceive it) than on unfunded opinions. Sites like the Jono also as it gives his experience and the results to accompany his findings.

    Lookin forward to yours and others findings regarding the Leica paradigm.

    Jan R. Smit
    www.janrsmit.com

  8. #108
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    So far the only thing I have seen and I am seeing some red bias in most images but Jono's are looking much better

    http://www.slack.co.uk/M9

    I think and i don't have the damn thing but a lot of people are shooting with the shipping firmware and the new firmware is what they should be updating which is 1.02

    I don't understand why their is no immediate announcement on this but any dealers out there i would advice your customers to update when they get home with it. I'll be perfectly honest here I am seeing a heavy red bias and will reserve judgment on this because LR, ACR, Aperture and C1 will mostly likely need a update as well.

    But I could use some raws to test it out more and pick it apart
    Juno's stuff looks a ton better. I went right to his wedding stuff, and that looked pretty good. I still will reserve judgement until I get it in hand and do my own B&W processing. If the B&W tonal response is like the D3X, it'll be a winner. Black blacks yet with shadow detail and white whites without being blown is a Leica hallmark ... which the DMR and the M8 delivered in spades. That's all need, and it's going straight to "Felix's Bag of Tricks" ...

  9. #109
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Maybe they had the intention to show that the M-system can be indeed a "modern" camera which fits in todays life.

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    One either loves Leica despite its imperfections or one doesnt - pretty simple really.

    A 17 megapixels if the IQ is as good as the M8 will do me just fine for pretty much everything I wish to shoot handheld. I could care less about high ISO autofocus image stabilisation or a thousand programmable commands involving ten buttons 50 menus and six scroll wheels - been there done that - life is too short for CaNikon 'quality'.

    I want compact glass that gives me real usable fast wides and 50's and Leica is the only company that can give me that in full frame 35mm land.

    Yeah I am totally happy with the announcements - trying to stop myself ordering a Noctilux to go with the first M9 - so glad to have stayed the course and kept all my M glass!

  11. #111
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    I could care less about high ISO autofocus image stabilisation or a thousand programmable commands involving ten buttons 50 menus and six scroll wheels..
    That one aspect, most other camera makers have no clues about.

    There is a variety of combicams mushrooming now.

    One thing that I can use, a coffee maker (OK, espresso for Guy ), is sadly absent.

  12. #112
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    trying to stop myself ordering a Noctilux to go with the first M9 - so glad to have stayed the course and kept all my M glass!
    Peter if you need a butler let me know

    are you talking about 1.0 or 0.95 and have you done any
    tests? any difference or improvements with 0.95 version?

  13. #113
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    I too thought Seal was trying his best

    along the same road Bryan Adams is a Rock Star and accomplished photographer

    anyways FF M Leica is here and thats what is important to me

  14. #114
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by JanRSmit View Post
    Guy, Erik,
    Why should i, as an amateur, give more thrust to a pro, like you Guy for instance (no pun intended), than to a famous person like seal?
    Jan R. Smit
    www.janrsmit.com
    I should say for the obvious reasons

    I don't see any pictures posted by Seal here or anywhere (EVEN IF)

    and if Guy had this Camera for a day we would have had everything squeezed out of M9 file by now

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Have a look on his home page.....

    http://sealsong.smugmug.com/

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Have a look on his home page.....

    http://sealsong.smugmug.com/
    Thanks!

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    The last Nocti I owned was an an f:1 - before Leica bought out the M8. On film - it didnt perform as well as my 50 lux. I am thinking f:0.95 - just because - no special reason except I am a bokeh NUT -

    and no thanks I dont need a butler - unless you wear short skirts and look like Elle McPherson -or her sister -

  18. #118
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Have a look on his home page.....

    http://sealsong.smugmug.com/
    actually very nice

  19. #119
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I am a bokeh NUT -
    thats a good enough reason for me


    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    and no thanks I dont need a butler - unless you wear short skirts and look like Elle McPherson -or her sister -
    in this case I give up

    I met with her number of times and must admit aside from being blessed with good looks she is down to earth and very humble lady a good business woman too so you guys must have something in common

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Nice write-up of the M9 by MR at Luminous Landscape if you haven't seen it already.

  21. #121
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by JanRSmit View Post
    Guy, Erik,
    Why should i, as an amateur, give more thrust to a pro, like you Guy for instance (no pun intended), than to a famous person like seal? Not all pro's are like you describe, nor does that give me an indication whether that particular system is ok for me.

    At the end of the day i believe it is about what suits one selves. Just like you said in earlier posts: give me some raw to start with, explain how test was done, above all take the time to test for yourself before engage in a system with its support. Indeed one buys a system and the support backing it up, regardless of what brand or model you buy.

    So i do believe from a marketing point of view, which in essence about getting awareness, Seal is as good as any other well known person, not necessarely a famous photographer. For me personally the choice to buy or not is based on my own as objective as possible evaluations, with a touch of bias towards Leica.
    Forums like these give me value in those evaluations, as do certain review sites, simply because the contributos/reviewers focus more on arguments (facts as they perceive it) than on unfunded opinions. Sites like the Jono also as it gives his experience and the results to accompany his findings.

    Lookin forward to yours and others findings regarding the Leica paradigm.

    Jan R. Smit
    www.janrsmit.com

    It's a great question and does relate to what i said earlier as well but it comes down to a trust issue when a new system is introduced. Let's take the M8 for example people like me found immediate issues and tried to work them out with Leica. The thing here is the experience to find those issues within days instead of someone that may not know better or is not paying attention to it or simply does not see it because they may not know what to look for in a file or in the camera itself. Seal maybe a great shooter and all that but his mind may not be on the technical side to find things wrong . Not saying he is or is not but just a example per say. If someone jumps on the podium that has vast experience the trust factor comes into play in that guy went through the whole system and found it is working as it should and more importantly he trust it under the scrutiny and neck stretching eyes of his clients. This is not the same as a actor doing a makeup commercial, that sells those type of products. This is different with multitude of electronics , optics , mechanical parts that has more effect on is it working as advertised.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  22. #122
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by cmb_ View Post
    Nice write-up of the M9 by MR at Luminous Landscape if you haven't seen it already.
    thanks

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    If you saw the webcast, you could see some of Seal's work projected on the screen during his talk...

    Seal is a very close friend and his work is very good. Yes, he is a celebrity but once you get to know him, you realize he is just like the rest of us, passionate about our work and always looking to learn and become better photographers regardless of whether you are a pro or not... After all, our passion for photography is what brings us here, right? (well, with the exception of a few pixel peepers and technical geeks )

    I don't know if the interview he did after the event with Mr. Spiller is available already but once it's posted you should check it out in order to learn more about his passion for photography and Leica.

    BTW, you will be able to see some of his work soon.

    Cheers,

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    Have a look on his home page.....

    http://sealsong.smugmug.com/
    he looks like a grate artist and that is good enough for me.

  25. #125
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    It's a great question and does relate to what i said earlier as well but it comes down to a trust issue when a new system is introduced. Let's take the M8 for example people like me found immediate issues and tried to work them out with Leica. The thing here is the experience to find those issues within days instead of someone that may not know better or is not paying attention to it or simply does not see it because they may not know what to look for in a file or in the camera itself. Seal maybe a great shooter and all that but his mind may not be on the technical side to find things wrong . Not saying he is or is not but just a example per say. If someone jumps on the podium that has vast experience the trust factor comes into play in that guy went through the whole system and found it is working as it should and more importantly he trust it under the scrutiny and neck stretching eyes of his clients. This is not the same as a actor doing a makeup commercial, that sells those type of products. This is different with multitude of electronics , optics , mechanical parts that has more effect on is it working as advertised.
    Agreed. 100 percent.

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    there where 120 beta testers and I agree that among them there should have been a lot of people like guy is saying.

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    wrt to spokespeople, I think Leica is just trying to cast the net as wide as possible, make as big a splash as possible, and also encourage younger buyers into the fold. Seal is good for that. dunno about brian adams....trotting out DAHarvey is great and all to speak to the pro community but it does nothing to advance the brand with younger photographers who don't know who he is, and honestly, with new photographer never even having loaded a film camera, the number is high.

    I think we are finally seeing a new Leica, one that is focused on a direction finally, their product lineup has something for everyone, they aren't pandering to us with "S" mode anymore, if you want a piece of the leica badge well you can get a dlux if that floats your boat just to be "in". Or you Think Different and get an X1 which is going to provide a different experience than your typical dslr. Doesn't seem like they want to go directly head to head with the dslr market, and who can blame them, it is saturated.

    Finally the M9 is the camera we all wish they could have made instead of the M8. We can quibble about ISO and price but it is unique in the market, has more than enough res for 99% of what you want to do with it, unmatched optics, the only question is reliability in my mind.

    the S2 is a bigger question, but a price drop would help that in a heartbeat. We'll see if the medium format market embraces the 3:2 format, I have my doubts about that. Other than that, it is probably going to be a great performer.

    finally all the oars going in sync to me.

  28. #128
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Yes it does work both ways and maybe should of had two people instead of one with different backgrounds anyway no matter whatever works. Not my real concern anyway for myself i will test it anyway before I buy anything anymore with photo gear but that is me. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  29. #129
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    120 beta testers?!

    This is getting more and more interesting.

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    120 beta testers?!

    This is getting more and more interesting.
    http://jerphotography.com/blog/

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    For everyone expecting a top notch technical review, just keep an eye on Sean Reid's and David Farkas's site/blog as both were part of a Solms covert operation during the summer

    Oh, and as far as I know there were 12 bodies out there not 120...

    Cheers,

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Actually, the article says that there were "120 prototypes" and those were sent out to beta testers, kept in-house for employee evaluations, etc. I read that as there being 120 "bodies" not necessarily 120 "beta testers".

    LJ

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    In the end I believe the critical thing of the m9 - or call IT THE BOTTLENECK is accurate focus.
    One has to make sure to have camera and lens totally accurate calibrated, and to use a lens without focus shift.
    Therefore I still question the Noctilux - enough to master the 50 lux.

  34. #134
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    I know I'm a bit late but is there a place where one can watch the full webcast?

    Thanks!
    William
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by emmawest72 View Post
    I know I'm a bit late but is there a place where one can watch the full webcast?

    Thanks!
    I would like to see that too if someone has a link.

  36. #136
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    Non compatible lenses

    Page 110 of the manual says that the"Summicron 50mm f/2 with close up setting" cannot be used on the M9. Do we think they are referring to the DR Summicron? I've got one of these - I've been saving it for a FF M - I may have to have the close focus cam ground off after all.

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Reid's review on the M9 is up!

  38. #138
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    This Leica M9 is so baddddd..!!!
    I can't believe it after i read some of the reviews on this forum and other websites...
    Leica M9 is a pure evil.!!
    I never wanted a camera as bad as this one.

    So...
    I decided to sell my ZF 28/2 and ZF 35/2
    and i already sold my Lumix G1 too...

    I need that money to buy the New Leica M9
    I dont know, when will Leica M9 available in my country.

    Well done Leica.!
    Leica M9 | SE 18 | Lux 24 | Lux 50 | ZM 35 | Nikon D700 | 35/1.8 | 45 PC-E | 50/1.4 | 70-200 VR II | SB 800+600 |SF 58|

  39. #139
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Riccis View Post
    IYes, he is a celebrity but once you get to know him, you realize he is just like the rest of us, passionate about our work and always looking to learn and become better photographers...
    Except that, being a celebrity, he has total control over how he chooses to spend his time, lots of people who want to be his buddy, and near-infinite leisure and resources to devote to his quest to become a better photographer (or whatever else he feels like doing.)

    For all practical purposes, he and I don't even live on the same planet. And if you're his pal, you probably are in the same category.

    I'm okay with that, but let's not kid ourselves by denying that in photography, as in everything else, there's a very distinct division between the haves and the have-nots, and that photography, and everything else, is much, much easier for the haves.

  40. #140
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Riccis View Post
    If you saw the webcast, you could see some of Seal's work projected on the screen during his talk...

    Seal is a very close friend and his work is very good. Yes, he is a celebrity but once you get to know him, you realize he is just like the rest of us, passionate about our work and always looking to learn and become better photographers regardless of whether you are a pro or not... After all, our passion for photography is what brings us here, right? (well, with the exception of a few pixel peepers and technical geeks )

    I don't know if the interview he did after the event with Mr. Spiller is available already but once it's posted you should check it out in order to learn more about his passion for photography and Leica.

    BTW, you will be able to see some of his work soon.

    Cheers,
    He did mention you by name when he was up there, Riccis.
    Carlos Echenique | Carlos Echenique Photography |Olympus OM-D E-M1 MK II | Olympus Pen-F - M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 25mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 45mm f/1.8, Rokinon 12mm f/2 NCS, M.Zuiko 75mm f/1.8, M.Zuiko 12-40mm f/2.8 PRO, M.Zuiko 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO

  41. #141
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    Except that, being a celebrity, he has total control over how he chooses to spend his time, lots of people who want to be his buddy, and near-infinite leisure and resources to devote to his quest to become a better photographer (or whatever else he feels like doing.)

    For all practical purposes, he and I don't even live on the same planet. And if you're his pal, you probably are in the same category.

    I'm okay with that, but let's not kid ourselves by denying that in photography, as in everything else, there's a very distinct division between the haves and the have-nots, and that photography, and everything else, is much, much easier for the haves.
    I don't think that people should make these kinds of judgments. I imagine that Seal has had to, and continues to work very hard to be successful in the music industry. Most of the people that I have met in my lifetime who are successful have worked very hard.

    I also don't personally think that photography is "easier for haves". I don't think the amount of money that you have has anything to do with your talent. Buying an M9 or any other expensive camera will not make you a good photographer.

  42. #142
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    Except that, being a celebrity, he has total control over how he chooses to spend his time, lots of people who want to be his buddy, and near-infinite leisure and resources to devote to his quest to become a better photographer (or whatever else he feels like doing.)

    For all practical purposes, he and I don't even live on the same planet. And if you're his pal, you probably are in the same category.

    I'm okay with that, but let's not kid ourselves by denying that in photography, as in everything else, there's a very distinct division between the haves and the have-nots, and that photography, and everything else, is much, much easier for the haves.
    I don't know what's your problem but I am not going to waste my time addressing your rude comments.

  43. #143
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    Except that, being a celebrity, he has total control over how he chooses to spend his time, lots of people who want to be his buddy, and near-infinite leisure and resources to devote to his quest to become a better photographer (or whatever else he feels like doing.)

    For all practical purposes, he and I don't even live on the same planet. And if you're his pal, you probably are in the same category.

    I'm okay with that, but let's not kid ourselves by denying that in photography, as in everything else, there's a very distinct division between the haves and the have-nots, and that photography, and everything else, is much, much easier for the haves.
    This is remarkably harsh. Perhaps before writing things like this you should take some time to do some research look at the person's biography etc.

  44. #144
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy Flood View Post
    I don't think that people should make these kinds of judgments. I imagine that Seal has had to, and continues to work very hard to be successful in the music industry. Most of the people that I have met in my lifetime who are successful have worked very hard.

    I also don't personally think that photography is "easier for haves". I don't think the amount of money that you have has anything to do with your talent. Buying an M9 or any other expensive camera will not make you a good photographer.
    I believe the point being made by the OP is that these days... Seal can spend a great deal of time perfecting technique. Yes he worked very hard at marketing himself as a musician, having natural talent it came to him easier than others, such as some have natural talent for mathematics. Now that the golden goose is in his barn he can explore very expensive situations with photography, for which he has no natural talent (I don't know this for sure just making a point) but is currently developing and has found a brand that supports Veblen testers.

    There are very good photographers who have natural talent that work very very hard that will never get handed a $25,000 camera because they are a famous musician. Surely you see the point why some would question Seal's presence in our conversations?

  45. #145
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Okay folks I'm heading to bed and lets slow it down a notch. End of the day this does not really matter it is the camera and what it can do and what talent sits behind it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  46. #146
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Thanks Guy

  47. #147
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Not always fun being the admin., I walk a very careful line. Trust me some posts i would like to jump through the computer and slap someone upside the head. Okay that was a little blunt honesty but I am sure many feel the same way on some threads. I learned just not to respond sometimes and frankly the smartest thing. Not really talking about this forum either but some are pure hell and I don't even glance at them any more. They are just tools and we need to keep that in mind. Okay I need some sleep was up at 3 am to sign Silas on so he can post Jono's stuff.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  48. #148
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Photographically speaking there are a million Seals out there,and I include 99% of us in that million,Id have been more interested to have someone from Magnum speak and have someone like Seal sing.
    .
    .
    .
    The really important question is what song he should have sung.?..................like a virgin by madonna maybe
    Last edited by nei1; 10th September 2009 at 21:44.

  49. #149
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    just an observation.

    Seal is one of the best people possible for them to have up there. he not only talks the talk, but he walks the walk. i had the great good fortune to meet him in the green room after a concert in Bordeaux. still sweaty from a passionate performance, he came out when he saw i had a Leica. we nattered on about cameras and lenses, much to the boredom of everybody surrounding us.

    what impressed me most (and what i spied even before he came out) was that he had his M7 by his side. this isn't some celebrity who dabbles in taking pictures, this is someone who is passionate about photography and always has his camera with him.

    he *is* like me and, frankly, a majority of us. his impressions and enthusiasm meant more to me than any pro photographer they could have had up there. i am not a pro, nor are most of us.... and, despite his owning an M8 and an M8.2, he had his favourite, the Jahre M7 by his side. when we swapped cameras (me to drool and fondle and control myself from wasting his film by taking pics of his feet), i saw he was not all that comfortable with the M8 and had never really bonded with it.

    despite people's issues with celebrity endorsements, i honestly doubt Seal would have agreed to that presentation if he did not truly believe that the M9 was the digital camera he'd always been hoping for.

    (also, honestly, i can't really see him using the S2, which i got to play with in Arles over the summer. he is an RF boy through and through.)

  50. #150
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    As always, there is passion with any details with a Leica product launch.

    Good thing!

    It is remarkable that Leica appears to have turned a corner by coming up with the M9, S2 and the X1.

    Whether they invited X,Y,Z for a secret tour or the product launch are minor details, IMO.

    I am really happy that Jono was one beta tester. AFAIK, he is not a pop musikant.

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