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Thread: The M9 Chat Box

  1. #151
    Senior Member emmawest72's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    I think we should invite Seal to join the forum so we can get his impressions!
    William
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  2. #152
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    I think that would make the life very hard for the mods/admins as there are folks who would just want to take a shot at him or people like him because of the name/fame.

  3. #153
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    just an observation.

    Seal is one of the best people possible for them to have up there. he not only talks the talk, but he walks the walk. i had the great good fortune to meet him in the green room after a concert in Bordeaux. still sweaty from a passionate performance, he came out when he saw i had a Leica. we nattered on about cameras and lenses, much to the boredom of everybody surrounding us.

    what impressed me most (and what i spied even before he came out) was that he had his M7 by his side. this isn't some celebrity who dabbles in taking pictures, this is someone who is passionate about photography and always has his camera with him.

    he *is* like me and, frankly, a majority of us. his impressions and enthusiasm meant more to me than any pro photographer they could have had up there. i am not a pro, nor are most of us.... and, despite his owning an M8 and an M8.2, he had his favourite, the Jahre M7 by his side. when we swapped cameras (me to drool and fondle and control myself from wasting his film by taking pics of his feet), i saw he was not all that comfortable with the M8 and had never really bonded with it.

    despite people's issues with celebrity endorsements, i honestly doubt Seal would have agreed to that presentation if he did not truly believe that the M9 was the digital camera he'd always been hoping for.

    (also, honestly, i can't really see him using the S2, which i got to play with in Arles over the summer. he is an RF boy through and through.)
    IMO, that's the essence in a nut shell. When it comes to a M he's more like me & my M than a professional would be.

    I'd want to see some fashion shooter or what-ever with the S2 ... but I don't rely on an M for pro work myself ... I use it professionally as a aux. piece ... but it's more of my personal passion camera ... take with on my treks to Gotham and La La land, etc. So, I tend to agree.

    Basically, it's more about the personal passion of photography ... I'm not worried about getting the scoop on the technical end ... there is a flood of that sort of thing published already.

    Marc

  4. #154
    Senior Member otumay's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I think that would make the life very hard for the mods/admins as there are folks who would just want to take a shot at him or people like him because of the name/fame.
    Ahem, who is this Seal, by the way?
    Osman

  5. #155
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by otumay View Post
    Ahem, who is this Seal, by the way?
    Osman
    No idea, really.

    For that matter, I have no idea who MR, DF, PA or SR are either.

    None of them affect (have any impact on) my photography and/or what sort of gear I may buy/use!
    Last edited by Vivek; 11th September 2009 at 04:38.

  6. #156
    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Occasionally one has to expose one's ignorance in order to learn. So I'm about to do that here and now.

    After viewing the few examples from the M9 presented here and in reviewer's sites (Jono, D. Farkas, etc.) and looking at the results of the M9, I am not seeing a huge difference in quality or IQ from what the M8 offers. Granted, the samples are jpegs. And these are very early samples.

    Nevertheless, my question is: Is it fair to say that the advantages of the M9 over the M8 are primarily a greater resolution that enables larger prints and the FF attributes that allow for more accurate lens focal lengths that don't include a crop factor? Not to minimize the niceties of better frame lines or other little embellishments like the ISO button or menus, but strictly in terms of IQ, is that about it?

    Thanks!
    Tim

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    Occasionally one has to expose one's ignorance in order to learn. So I'm about to do that here and now.

    After viewing the few examples from the M9 presented here and in reviewer's sites (Jono, D. Farkas, etc.) and looking at the results of the M9, I am not seeing a huge difference in quality or IQ from what the M8 offers. Granted, the samples are jpegs. And these are very early samples.

    Nevertheless, my question is: Is it fair to say that the advantages of the M9 over the M8 are primarily a greater resolution that enables larger prints and the FF attributes that allow for more accurate lens focal lengths that don't include a crop factor? Not to minimize the niceties of better frame lines or other little embellishments like the ISO button or menus, but strictly in terms of IQ, is that about it?

    Thanks!
    Tim
    Tim,

    As I stated in my review, the M9 files do look strikingly similiar to M8 files, just with 80% more pixels. What you get in addtion to the more pixels is full-frame, one stop better dynamic range (this is a big one), one stop better ISO performance, and a some really nice UI enhancements.

    Also keep in mind that the files I posted (the large ones @1MB apiece) are sized down 1500x1000 from 5212x3468. I might upload some 100% crops later today, but oddly, no one has asked me for them.

    David
    David Farkas
    Leica Store Miami

  8. #158
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    Nevertheless, my question is: Is it fair to say that the advantages of the M9 over the M8 are primarily a greater resolution that enables larger prints and the FF attributes that allow for more accurate lens focal lengths that don't include a crop factor?
    Depending on subject type you might get a little more subject separation as you could stand closer to them.

  9. #159
    Subscriber Member TRSmith's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Tim,

    ...What you get in addtion to the more pixels is full-frame, one stop better dynamic range (this is a big one), one stop better ISO performance, and a some really nice UI enhancements...

    David
    Thanks for that David. Certainly the expanded DR is an advantage. Do you have a sense yet for how the M9 handles highlights? Or to put it another way, is the extra stop of DR more obvious in the shadows or the highlights?

    On a personal note, I find the enhancements you list to be worthwhile, yet oddly comforting to an M8 owner (and lover). I can easily imagine owning an M9 and now see it as more of an evolution from the M8 than a replacement for it.

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    Occasionally one has to expose one's ignorance in order to learn. So I'm about to do that here and now.

    Tim
    Tim, I heard an interview the other day of a very good composer and teacher. He said that you loose your ability to learn when you loose your ability to be humble.

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    David, my only doubt right now about the image quality of the M9 (also coming from the M8 & DMR) is the WA's.

    1- Are they soft in the corners? and is this a characteristic of rf lenses more than; for example 15/2.8 asph R or 19/2.8 R?
    Or is this a characteristic of the M9's limitations? (if they are)

    2- The other doubt that I have is how much I will use WA's (because it is very different than the M8 view)

    For that second I am seriously considering the october workshop of Guy and Jack. (I am also trying to use a film M for that)

    Your review was very clear to read and at the same time had a lot of info.

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Cam - thank you!

  13. #163
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by gero View Post
    David, my only doubt right now about the image quality of the M9 (also coming from the M8 & DMR) is the WA's.

    1- Are they soft in the corners? and is this a characteristic of rf lenses more than; for example 15/2.8 asph R or 19/2.8 R?
    Or is this a characteristic of the M9's limitations? (if they are)

    2- The other doubt that I have is how much I will use WA's (because it is very different than the M8 view)

    For that second I am seriously considering the october workshop of Guy and Jack. (I am also trying to use a film M for that)

    Your review was very clear to read and at the same time had a lot of info.
    You should come and I am being serious. I know at least one attendee should have a M9 by then and we are still waiting to hear from Leica.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  14. #164
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Personally, I would have preferred Scarlett Johansson, but what do I know.


  15. #165
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Request for me if someone can get me some nice raws to play with. I would appreciate it , that way I can see how to process them the best.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Personally, I would have preferred Scarlett Johansson, but what do I know.



    Thanks Guy, I am trying. I'll let you know.

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Personally, I would have preferred Scarlett Johansson, but what do I know.

    +1


  18. #168
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Can I get a good looking Leica shooter like that. Oh wait I'm married
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  19. #169
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by emmawest72 View Post
    I think we should invite Seal to join the forum so we can get his impressions!
    Love to have him just like anyone else.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  20. #170
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Can I get a good looking Leica shooter like that. Oh wait I'm married
    I think the suggestion is to get someone attractive (also a celebrity) to be a spokesperson.

    No more.

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by gero View Post
    David, my only doubt right now about the image quality of the M9 (also coming from the M8 & DMR) is the WA's.

    1- Are they soft in the corners? and is this a characteristic of rf lenses more than; for example 15/2.8 asph R or 19/2.8 R?
    Or is this a characteristic of the M9's limitations? (if they are)

    2- The other doubt that I have is how much I will use WA's (because it is very different than the M8 view)

    For that second I am seriously considering the october workshop of Guy and Jack. (I am also trying to use a film M for that)

    Your review was very clear to read and at the same time had a lot of info.
    I just got the answer to the first.

    http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...lake-city.html

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I think the suggestion is to get someone attractive (also a celebrity) to be a spokesperson.
    ummm.... i personally find Seal far more yummy!

  23. #173
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    You would . LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger 9 View Post
    Except that, being a celebrity, he has total control over how he chooses to spend his time, lots of people who want to be his buddy, and near-infinite leisure and resources to devote to his quest to become a better photographer (or whatever else he feels like doing.)

    For all practical purposes, he and I don't even live on the same planet. And if you're his pal, you probably are in the same category.

    I'm okay with that, but let's not kid ourselves by denying that in photography, as in everything else, there's a very distinct division between the haves and the have-nots, and that photography, and everything else, is much, much easier for the haves.
    I totally disagree with what you just said in the excerpt above. You do live on the same planet. You make your choices about how you spend your time and where and on what you spend your money - as does everyone else.

    Money and time - doesn't buy talent, ability or good images - work does. no Leica will ever make a good image let alone a great image -just because it is a Leica Some of the best photography I have collected and bought over the last 30 years - has been made with $50 cameras.

    What this forum is about is people who share a passion for photography and gear - and thats why i come here.

  25. #175
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by cam View Post
    ummm.... i personally find Seal far more yummy!

    Ok, Two then.

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Ok, Two then.

  27. #177
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    If it was bad enough having a celebrity, imagine the comments if it was a blonde model/actress, people would have creamed Leica!
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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  28. #178
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Cam, good to see you back on the forum again. Hope all is well and that you are still pestering all of those unsuspecting train riders with candid shots.

    Kurt

  29. #179
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    Shift gears for a moment: Lack of Sapphire LCD cover

    Having an interest in better watches, I'm a fan of the scratch resistance of sapphire watch crystals. Yes, if struck sharply, they'll shatter with shards being scattered. That's why NASA specified acrylic crystals for their space flights (can you picture shards of glass floating around in zero G?)

    Fast backward to my flying days and the acrylic windshields of the aircraft. They are prone to minute to large scratches. We found that plain Pledge in the brown spray can, when applied to the windshield and wiped dry, would fill in the minute scratches and protect, to a small degree, the windshield from more scratches. This because Pledge has a refractive index close to that of acrylic plastic.

    In the event that I decide to pop for an M9 before sapphire is offered as an optional LCD cover, I'd probably 'Pledge it' every so often. Rather than spraying it at the back of the M9, apply it with the ball of your finger using a well washed tee shirt. Anyone else doing this?
    Roger
    Leica M6, M8.2 & assorted Leica glass

  30. #180
    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    I prefer to use the Giottos glass screen protector with 12 layers of coating. I use them on all my plastic-screen cameras.

  31. #181
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Brad did you ever have problems with the slight overhang with the Giottos? The ones I had on my 2 M8's at the time were ever so slightly larger than the LCD cover so that there was an edge that could catch and break. I'd have rather it was slightly smaller and sacrifice the edge of the underlying LCD cover than break.

    Maybe this has changed now but I had two crack & shatter which made them somewhat less than useless for me. Removing the shards with a bit of heat to release the adhesive could also release the adhesive on the back of the LCD cover itself so that this would lift off the camera. In the end that's why I upgraded my last M8 with the Sapphire LCD cover.

    Next time I'd go with the Zagg Invishield. I have some here but haven't bothered with the M8.2 that I now have.

  32. #182
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    not sure if this was mentioned but videos of the press conf are available here: http://vimeo.com/leicacamera

  33. #183
    Senior Member Erik Five's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Im so tempted to buy a DRF again... Im maybe thinking of getting a M8.2 until I can get my hands on a M9... And of course need to unload some gear

  34. #184
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    I was actually thinking of a M8 backup to my MF system. I have a backup body but heck i want a small camera anyway for me.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I was actually thinking of a M8 backup to my MF system. I have a backup body but heck i want a small camera anyway for me.
    go for it, Guy!

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Personally, I would have preferred Scarlett Johansson, but what do I know.

    That is from Vicky Cristina Barcelona. Not sure Scarlett herself is a Leica user...

  37. #187
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    I'm refraining from comment let's just say she looks really good sporting a Leica
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I'm refraining from comment let's just say she looks really good sporting a Leica
    right.....and there are probably some folks that would just love to be that non-Leica strap

    LJ

  39. #189
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    You are very bad Sir. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    You are very bad Sir. LOL
    O.K., guilty as charged.... Honestly, I am sure I am not the only one that had that thought cross their mind Maybe the only one crude and bold enough to blurt it out, but all those guilty folks can stop blushing now

    LJ

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Brad did you ever have problems with the slight overhang with the Giottos? The ones I had on my 2 M8's at the time were ever so slightly larger than the LCD cover so that there was an edge that could catch and break. I'd have rather it was slightly smaller and sacrifice the edge of the underlying LCD cover than break.

    Maybe this has changed now but I had two crack & shatter which made them somewhat less than useless for me. Removing the shards with a bit of heat to release the adhesive could also release the adhesive on the back of the LCD cover itself so that this would lift off the camera. In the end that's why I upgraded my last M8 with the Sapphire LCD cover.

    Next time I'd go with the Zagg Invishield. I have some here but haven't bothered with the M8.2 that I now have.
    Graham,
    I was lucky or careful enough not to break one, but a friend of mine did when he pushed his bag into the overhead compartment on a flight. It does take some heat to remove and you could pull the Leica plastic off too. I didn't mind the little overhang and I never caught it on anything, probably because I also use Luigi cases (no rear flap) that give enough of a thickness so that the protector is not the most prominent thing on the back. I found the Giottos and Luigi combination (together with a Thumbs-up) to be the best for me, and I am going this way on the M9 too.

    The Thumbs-up CSEP4 is the best because the double shoe allows you to place an external finder right above the internal one, so you focus and quickly drop the camera a centimeter to compose wide shots. There may be slight parallax issues, but I never had a problem composing this way. With the M9 we will need wide external finders even more (anything 24mm or wider).

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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    I just got a chance to watch the Leica Press Conference in which Seal spoke. It was clear to me from the video that Leica was very respectful of the fact that Seal had spent a great deal of his money on their cameras over the last 16 years and gave him a chance to share his feelings about their brand.

    I feel this was very appropriate and it was mischaracterized to me how Leica was using him. I think the way it was done was very tasteful. If anyone, doctor, lawyer, musician, another photographer, you or I had been faithful to the Leica brand in the monetary way that Seal had done for as long as it has been we would have certainly been on the list to speak about it. Sure it helps to have a famous face when talking about passions.

    Now all Leica needs to do to appeal to photographers who work for a living in the field is put the camera in the hands of pros. Allow it to be tested against the best Phase backs and lets see where it stands in the lineup. It definitely has a place I feel because 37mp is flat out enough resolution for some folks.

  43. #193
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    Graham,
    I was lucky or careful enough not to break one, but a friend of mine did when he pushed his bag into the overhead compartment on a flight. It does take some heat to remove and you could pull the Leica plastic off too. I didn't mind the little overhang and I never caught it on anything, probably because I also use Luigi cases (no rear flap) that give enough of a thickness so that the protector is not the most prominent thing on the back. I found the Giottos and Luigi combination (together with a Thumbs-up) to be the best for me, and I am going this way on the M9 too.
    Brad - that makes sense. Mine broke when fitted with no other case around the edge to protect them. The break was literally just in the very corner but once cracked, that's it. I can attest to the ability to lift off the LCD cover btw!

    Using both the Giottos and case sounds like an ideal combo.

    wrt to the Seal discussions:

    I thought that he was very gracious, generous and genuine in his appreciation of all things Leica. I can't for the life of me see why people are so cynical. Btw, in case anyone forgot, this was a public launch event not a pro round-table. If Leica had rolled out a traditional crusty old M shooter I'd have been tempted to go back to sleep during the web cast. :sleep006:

    As regards being given the S2, well he seemed genuinely surprised and if **I** were being cynical I'd say that Leica got a great deal! I think you'd be hard pressed to get that much of Seal's time and pay for it for less than the cost of that demo S2!

  44. #194
    Member beamon's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Am I correctly assuming that the "Protect" button that was replaced by the new ISO button is now in a menu on the M9?
    Roger
    Leica M6, M8.2 & assorted Leica glass

  45. #195
    Subscriber Member mwalker's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    yes, I believe protect was moved to a menu item
    Mike

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by beamon View Post
    Am I correctly assuming that the "Protect" button that was replaced by the new ISO button is now in a menu on the M9?
    Either ISO or Info. I think ISO though
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  47. #197
    Member beamon's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Either ISO or Info. I think ISO though
    Thanks. You'll know soon Guy, for sure. Certainly more utility from the ISO button out there for most any user.
    Roger
    Leica M6, M8.2 & assorted Leica glass

  48. #198
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I'm refraining from comment let's just say she looks really good sporting a Leica
    She looks great with or without the Leica. The Leica just makes her just a slight bit more attractive... If that's possible.
    Sony Visible Light & IR Photographer
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  49. #199
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The M9 Chat Box

    Yes I do like the ISO button there but have to say the button I like the most is the info button. I had that on my Nikons and loved it . Many times shooting events or in dark places the M8 would not just give you that info very easily. The Nikon and now the M9 that info button I promise a lot of folks will be more than happy it is there. This is a very important feature as I see it. I do a lot of these event type things and that is a big issue is quickly seeing what is going on.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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