The M9 Chat Box

[Cindy Flood]

Except that, being a celebrity, he has total control over how he chooses to spend his time, lots of people who want to be his buddy, and near-infinite leisure and resources to devote to his quest to become a better photographer (or whatever else he feels like doing.)

For all practical purposes, he and I don't even live on the same planet. And if you're his pal, you probably are in the same category.

I'm okay with that, but let's not kid ourselves by denying that in photography, as in everything else, there's a very distinct division between the haves and the have-nots, and that photography, and everything else, is much, much easier for the haves.

I don't think that people should make these kinds of judgments. I imagine that Seal has had to, and continues to work very hard to be successful in the music industry. Most of the people that I have met in my lifetime who are successful have worked very hard.

I also don't personally think that photography is "easier for haves". I don't think the amount of money that you have has anything to do with your talent. Buying an M9 or any other expensive camera will not make you a good photographer.

 

[Riccis]

Except that, being a celebrity, he has total control over how he chooses to spend his time, lots of people who want to be his buddy, and near-infinite leisure and resources to devote to his quest to become a better photographer (or whatever else he feels like doing.)

For all practical purposes, he and I don't even live on the same planet. And if you're his pal, you probably are in the same category.

I'm okay with that, but let's not kid ourselves by denying that in photography, as in everything else, there's a very distinct division between the haves and the have-nots, and that photography, and everything else, is much, much easier for the haves.

I don't know what's your problem but I am not going to waste my time addressing your rude comments.

 

[Terry]

Except that, being a celebrity, he has total control over how he chooses to spend his time, lots of people who want to be his buddy, and near-infinite leisure and resources to devote to his quest to become a better photographer (or whatever else he feels like doing.)

For all practical purposes, he and I don't even live on the same planet. And if you're his pal, you probably are in the same category.

I'm okay with that, but let's not kid ourselves by denying that in photography, as in everything else, there's a very distinct division between the haves and the have-nots, and that photography, and everything else, is much, much easier for the haves.

This is remarkably harsh. Perhaps before writing things like this you should take some time to do some research look at the person's biography etc.

 

[pcunite]

I don't think that people should make these kinds of judgments. I imagine that Seal has had to, and continues to work very hard to be successful in the music industry. Most of the people that I have met in my lifetime who are successful have worked very hard.

I also don't personally think that photography is "easier for haves". I don't think the amount of money that you have has anything to do with your talent. Buying an M9 or any other expensive camera will not make you a good photographer.

I believe the point being made by the OP is that these days... Seal can spend a great deal of time perfecting technique. Yes he worked very hard at marketing himself as a musician, having natural talent it came to him easier than others, such as some have natural talent for mathematics. Now that the golden goose is in his barn he can explore very expensive situations with photography, for which he has no natural talent (I don't know this for sure just making a point) but is currently developing and has found a brand that supports Veblen testers.

There are very good photographers who have natural talent that work very very hard that will never get handed a $25,000 camera because they are a famous musician. Surely you see the point why some would question Seal's presence in our conversations?

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Okay folks I'm heading to bed and lets slow it down a notch. End of the day this does not really matter it is the camera and what it can do and what talent sits behind it.

 

[monza]

Thanks Guy

 

[Guy Mancuso]

Not always fun being the admin., I walk a very careful line. Trust me some posts i would like to jump through the computer and slap someone upside the head. Okay that was a little blunt honesty but I am sure many feel the same way on some threads. I learned just not to respond sometimes and frankly the smartest thing. Not really talking about this forum either but some are pure hell and I don't even glance at them any more. They are just tools and we need to keep that in mind. Okay I need some sleep was up at 3 am to sign Silas on so he can post Jono's stuff.

 

[nei1]

Photographically speaking there are a million Seals out there,and I include 99% of us in that million,Id have been more interested to have someone from Magnum speak and have someone like Seal sing.
.
.
.
The really important question is what song he should have sung.?..................like a virgin by madonna maybe

 

[cam]

just an observation.

Seal is one of the best people possible for them to have up there. he not only talks the talk, but he walks the walk. i had the great good fortune to meet him in the green room after a concert in Bordeaux. still sweaty from a passionate performance, he came out when he saw i had a Leica. we nattered on about cameras and lenses, much to the boredom of everybody surrounding us.

what impressed me most (and what i spied even before he came out) was that he had his M7 by his side. this isn't some celebrity who dabbles in taking pictures, this is someone who is passionate about photography and always has his camera with him.

he *is* like me and, frankly, a majority of us. his impressions and enthusiasm meant more to me than any pro photographer they could have had up there. i am not a pro, nor are most of us.... and, despite his owning an M8 and an M8.2, he had his favourite, the Jahre M7 by his side. when we swapped cameras (me to drool and fondle and control myself from wasting his film by taking pics of his feet), i saw he was not all that comfortable with the M8 and had never really bonded with it.

despite people's issues with celebrity endorsements, i honestly doubt Seal would have agreed to that presentation if he did not truly believe that the M9 was the digital camera he'd always been hoping for.

(also, honestly, i can't really see him using the S2, which i got to play with in Arles over the summer. he is an RF boy through and through.)

 

[Vivek]

As always, there is passion with any details with a Leica product launch.

Good thing! :thumbs:

It is remarkable that Leica appears to have turned a corner by coming up with the M9, S2 and the X1.

Whether they invited X,Y,Z for a secret tour or the product launch are minor details, IMO.

I am really happy that Jono was one beta tester. AFAIK, he is not a pop musikant. :ROTFL:

 

[emmawest72]

I think we should invite Seal to join the forum so we can get his impressions!

 

[Vivek]

I think that would make the life very hard for the mods/admins as there are folks who would just want to take a shot at him or people like him because of the name/fame.

 

[fotografz]

just an observation.

Seal is one of the best people possible for them to have up there. he not only talks the talk, but he walks the walk. i had the great good fortune to meet him in the green room after a concert in Bordeaux. still sweaty from a passionate performance, he came out when he saw i had a Leica. we nattered on about cameras and lenses, much to the boredom of everybody surrounding us.

what impressed me most (and what i spied even before he came out) was that he had his M7 by his side. this isn't some celebrity who dabbles in taking pictures, this is someone who is passionate about photography and always has his camera with him.

he *is* like me and, frankly, a majority of us. his impressions and enthusiasm meant more to me than any pro photographer they could have had up there. i am not a pro, nor are most of us.... and, despite his owning an M8 and an M8.2, he had his favourite, the Jahre M7 by his side. when we swapped cameras (me to drool and fondle and control myself from wasting his film by taking pics of his feet), i saw he was not all that comfortable with the M8 and had never really bonded with it.

despite people's issues with celebrity endorsements, i honestly doubt Seal would have agreed to that presentation if he did not truly believe that the M9 was the digital camera he'd always been hoping for.

(also, honestly, i can't really see him using the S2, which i got to play with in Arles over the summer. he is an RF boy through and through.)

IMO, that's the essence in a nut shell. When it comes to a M he's more like me & my M than a professional would be.

I'd want to see some fashion shooter or what-ever with the S2 ... but I don't rely on an M for pro work myself ... I use it professionally as a aux. piece ... but it's more of my personal passion camera ... take with on my treks to Gotham and La La land, etc. So, I tend to agree.

Basically, it's more about the personal passion of photography ... I'm not worried about getting the scoop on the technical end ... there is a flood of that sort of thing published already.

Marc

 

[otumay]

I think that would make the life very hard for the mods/admins as there are folks who would just want to take a shot at him or people like him because of the name/fame.

Ahem, who is this Seal, by the way?
Osman

 

[Vivek]

Ahem, who is this Seal, by the way?
Osman

No idea, really.

For that matter, I have no idea who MR, DF, PA or SR are either.

None of them affect (have any impact on) my photography and/or what sort of gear I may buy/use!

 

[TRSmith]

Occasionally one has to expose one's ignorance in order to learn. So I'm about to do that here and now.

After viewing the few examples from the M9 presented here and in reviewer's sites (Jono, D. Farkas, etc.) and looking at the results of the M9, I am not seeing a huge difference in quality or IQ from what the M8 offers. Granted, the samples are jpegs. And these are very early samples.

Nevertheless, my question is: Is it fair to say that the advantages of the M9 over the M8 are primarily a greater resolution that enables larger prints and the FF attributes that allow for more accurate lens focal lengths that don't include a crop factor? Not to minimize the niceties of better frame lines or other little embellishments like the ISO button or menus, but strictly in terms of IQ, is that about it?

Thanks!
Tim

 

[dfarkas]

Occasionally one has to expose one's ignorance in order to learn. So I'm about to do that here and now.

After viewing the few examples from the M9 presented here and in reviewer's sites (Jono, D. Farkas, etc.) and looking at the results of the M9, I am not seeing a huge difference in quality or IQ from what the M8 offers. Granted, the samples are jpegs. And these are very early samples.

Nevertheless, my question is: Is it fair to say that the advantages of the M9 over the M8 are primarily a greater resolution that enables larger prints and the FF attributes that allow for more accurate lens focal lengths that don't include a crop factor? Not to minimize the niceties of better frame lines or other little embellishments like the ISO button or menus, but strictly in terms of IQ, is that about it?

Thanks!
Tim

Tim,

As I stated in my review, the M9 files do look strikingly similiar to M8 files, just with 80% more pixels. What you get in addtion to the more pixels is full-frame, one stop better dynamic range (this is a big one), one stop better ISO performance, and a some really nice UI enhancements.

Also keep in mind that the files I posted (the large ones @1MB apiece) are sized down 1500x1000 from 5212x3468. I might upload some 100% crops later today, but oddly, no one has asked me for them.

David

 

[pcunite]

Nevertheless, my question is: Is it fair to say that the advantages of the M9 over the M8 are primarily a greater resolution that enables larger prints and the FF attributes that allow for more accurate lens focal lengths that don't include a crop factor?

Depending on subject type you might get a little more subject separation as you could stand closer to them.

 

[TRSmith]

Tim,

...What you get in addtion to the more pixels is full-frame, one stop better dynamic range (this is a big one), one stop better ISO performance, and a some really nice UI enhancements...

David

Thanks for that David. Certainly the expanded DR is an advantage. Do you have a sense yet for how the M9 handles highlights? Or to put it another way, is the extra stop of DR more obvious in the shadows or the highlights?

On a personal note, I find the enhancements you list to be worthwhile, yet oddly comforting to an M8 owner (and lover). I can easily imagine owning an M9 and now see it as more of an evolution from the M8 than a replacement for it.

 

[gero]

Occasionally one has to expose one's ignorance in order to learn. So I'm about to do that here and now.

Tim

Tim, I heard an interview the other day of a very good composer and teacher. He said that you loose your ability to learn when you loose your ability to be humble.