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Thread: The X1 Chat Box

  1. #101
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Well a lot of folks don't understand them either.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Well Leica is trying to not fit in the norm. with products that they can call there own for one and also stay directly out direct competition. They simply have no apple to apple comparisons to other brands.
    I think that appeals to their customer base too. Who wants another me-too camera? I know I don't.

    Speaking of apples, I think it's the same aesthetic that has folks pay more for a well built nicely designed metal Mac vs plastic {insert generic brand here} laptop.

  3. #103
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    You won't find any. The camera won't be out for a couple of months. There were some hands on previews but no images were posted. Probably too early in the firmware tweaking.
    ok I thought hey had to have some samples

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Well a lot of folks don't understand them either.
    Exactly, this is why not many are buying them. I think M9 is gonna be their saviour!

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by JSK Rangefinder View Post
    Exactly, this is why not many are buying them. I think M9 is gonna be their saviour!
    I actually think if the X1 performs it is going to be a big seller. Lots of folks on the Leica Users Forum and other places would gladly have a fixed lens solution. Personally I really like the shutter and aperture wheels. We will see how the AF/MF works. I have to assume for the price that they've worked hard on a good lens for it.

  6. #106
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Well Leica is trying to not fit in the norm. with products that they can call there own for one and also stay directly out direct competition. They simply have no apple to apple comparisons to other brands.
    Guy in this case I think Sigma got there first and if they wanted to call this there own why havent they put the M8 sensor inside instead of a nikon,.........Neil.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Well, the M8 sensor is:

    1. From Kodak.

    2. Has microlenses- that special arrangement isn't needed here due to one fixed lens.

    No EVF on the X1.

    Presumably, the high ISO performance from X1 would be close to that of a Nikon D300 (Sony sensor).

    I am unsure if Sigma's FOVEON can do a decent 400+ ISO range.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Seriously I thought for sure that would have been a awesome move but as we know that may have raised the price to 3k since the M8 sensor is more expensive. Also you would not get the high ISO from it either and throwing a D300? Cmos sensor in would certainly keep the price lower and give us the higher ISO numbers. Problem with Sigma and really not sure it is a fault of there own is in the Photo world it is not really a household name if you know what I mean. Case in point I say Sigma to you what would be your first thought. Mine would be reversed engineered lenses for Canon and Nikon and for many shooters that would be what we relate too. Also the DP! never hit the high ISO marks, It did hit the holy smokes nice color but I think it left a few unanswered questions as well at least from what I know on it and I am not a expert on the Sigma as many here are but just my thoughts on it from a back seat driver.

    Vivek we posted the same time but almost identical thoughts. Obviously I just run my mouth longer than you. LOL I may have to go out for my 2 drink minimum
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    An interesting page out of Spain with video on the X1. It's in Spanish but not hard even if you don't speak or read it.

    Leica X1: toma de contacto

    I has me rethinking my GR-DIII idea. I may get it and sell the GR-DII to start an X1 fund.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Ah screw it. I'm going to buy one. Just to damn Leica for me. Exactly what I want for a run out the door camera. No doubt my wife will steal this from me.

    Now If I buy a X and a S2 do I get a 30 thousand dollar discount.
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    The X1 would be a great compliment to the S2.

  12. #112
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Agreed that the Sigma isnt perfect but used within its limitations it seems to produce good results........If leica could have put any sensor in this camera the Fuji S5 would have been an interesting choice.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    cool spanish page and video, thanks!

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Had a look at the translated spanish page and watched the video. Apparently the screen is useless outdoors in bright light. Not that I'm surprised from the cheap screen they put in it but at a $2K price point it's unacceptable (not that canon mind, they have a similar screen in their 1Ds mkIII).

    It just looks too big (the camera). Sorry.
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    An interesting page out of Spain with video on the X1. It's in Spanish but not hard even if you don't speak or read it.

    Leica X1: toma de contacto

    I has me rethinking my GR-DIII idea. I may get it and sell the GR-DII to start an X1 fund.
    thank you for posting the link John

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I actually think if the X1 performs it is going to be a big seller. Lots of folks on the Leica Users Forum and other places would gladly have a fixed lens solution. Personally I really like the shutter and aperture wheels. We will see how the AF/MF works. I have to assume for the price that they've worked hard on a good lens for it.
    It looks like it is build well. Do we know anything about accessories? maybe they will bring some extra tubes, lenses like with G9 and G10?

    To me personally, it feels like they made a mixture of old design with new technology.
    On video that John posted X1 looks great, probably in real life too.

    ACTUALLY X1 RESEMBLES MY AVATAR A LITTLE

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Gowin View Post
    The X1 would be a great compliment to the S2.
    I was thinking this also, can you imagine a Pro on assignment somewhere with an S2, who then goes for a wander around the town or beach, he/she may take an X1 to grab a few images rather than lug their work camera.

  18. #118
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by TEBnewyork View Post
    I actually think if the X1 performs it is going to be a big seller. Lots of folks on the Leica Users Forum and other places would gladly have a fixed lens solution. Personally I really like the shutter and aperture wheels. We will see how the AF/MF works. I have to assume for the price that they've worked hard on a good lens for it.
    I think it could be a big seller as well.

    Its a camera to take with you when you are going out but not going out to take pictures. If you do take something you often don't want a kit with lots of lenses so you take the one lens and one camera that does most often work for you - 35mm.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    watched the spanish video again and read through the page. i'd have preferred if they made the lens surround 'active', the control by which the manual focus was done, but it's hard to say. Given the LCD viewfinder for manual focus, the magnifier and thumbwheel might actually work better.

    this camera needs the optical viewfinder accessory, imo, just like my old Leica IIc and IIf did.

    i think i'll run an experiment. I'm either going to put the 20/3.5 nikkor or 25/2.8 olympus lens on my G1, and I'm going to keep it there for a week or two. when i want something different, I'll grab the L1 with the appropriate lens. if I can do the photography I want with that working setup, then the X1 is a viable possibility ...

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Experiment like that is good, Godfrey.

    I did exactly that with a modified E-410 (view finder became useless after I removed the UV/IR/AA filter stack) and used the LCD/live view for focusing. Pain in the @$$.

    That led me to decide strongly against the E-P.

    In your experiment, you should forget the swivel nature of the G1's TFT!

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Experiment like that is good, Godfrey.
    ...
    In your experiment, you should forget the swivel nature of the G1's TFT!
    I don't use the swivel much anyway, unless I'm working on a tripod. I often feel it gets in the way compared to the fixed LCD on the L1. The EVF will simulate the OVF since it gets in the way too much when I try to use an OVF on the G1 ... the slim body of the GF1/E-P1/X1 helps a lot in this regard.

    With the AF lens, AF will be set to center point and AE/AF Lock button. With the manual focus lens, the LCD will be used for focusing. Should be a fun experiment. ;-)

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    First images from the X1, apparently.

    http://leicarumors.com/2009/09/14/fi...leica-x1.aspx/

    Difficult to judge much from these, but FWIW .

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Here is that person's post along with some thoughts:

    http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...x1-images.html

    Write speed (not the final production model though) appears to be a problem.

  24. #124
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    "One performance aspect that was very impressive during our brief demo was the shooting speed. I didn't count the FPS, but it was damn fast, with a seemly large buffer."

    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...a-X1-pre.shtml

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    That must have been a special model.


    I hope that is the one that will be on the market and not the one with 4-5 second write speed.

    We will know when they become available and real user experiences are discussed.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    I want the X2 with a 35mm cron (for 52mm equivalent).
    OK then, I'll go for the XD2....update to the classic D2.....Vario summicron 24-90mm AF with the Sony 12Mpx sensor. Sony also supply Nikon with sensors too!

    D2 uses have been clamouring for such an update for years!
    Cheers, Dave
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    It's been said before, but I would have liked to see a faster lens than a 2.8....

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by dhsimmonds View Post
    OK then, I'll go for the XD2....update to the classic D2.....Vario summicron 24-90mm AF with the Sony 12Mpx sensor. Sony also supply Nikon with sensors too!

    D2 uses have been clamouring for such an update for years!
    They might be a bit disappointed when they see the results of a lens designed for a 8.8mm x 6.6mm sensor trying to work on a 23.6mm x 15.8mm sensor.

    Just to put a bit of scale to things, Nikon's 17-55 f/2.8 (which, of course, is too slow for some folks here) weighs in at around 750 grams (no caps, no filter). Reworked for a non-DLSR mounting, perhaps Leica could get an f/2.8 version down to around 500 grams. But if you want f/2...

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    the x1 looks like fun. i would like to defend the dp1. get to really know it and the foveon sensor (sigma owns the technology) will give special results. as for 400 iso, i realized i've been shooting at -1 ev, so that doubles everything. plus doesn't it mean you're shooting at 2.8.? and 400 with -1 works. the leica digilux 2 had the same problem: techies hated it, photographers loved it.

    wayne
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    ps. yes, the leica name sells. sigma makes many people turn up their noses, even though i like the warmth of their lenses.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by smokysun View Post
    sigma makes many people turn up their noses, even though i like the warmth of their lenses.
    Sigma makes many good lens designs. Why I won't look at them is that they can't seem to build them consistently or reliably .. too much variability in the performance and quality.

    I was very interested in the DP1/DP2 cameras but their performance, having played with them a little now, would just drive me nuts. And I don't trust the brand to manufacture anything consistently.

    It's a bit sad, really, as Sigma does have some interesting stuff, but I just won't seriously consider a Sigma product at all.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    i have to confess i once saw a sigma factory tour on pbase.com and it wasn't nearly as neat a place as leica! on the other hand, how many times have you heard someone say they went through five leica/canon/nikon lenses to get a sharp one? it's sort of like what someone told me about jaguars. one-third lemons, one-third middling, and one-third terrific. the proof of the pudding is in the eating. here are a few portraits with the sigma 50 2.8. i still like them.

    http://www.pbase.com/wwp/pain

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Oh, I have had to go through several Leica lenses to find a good one.
    OTOH, my first Sigma was spot on but that makes no prediction on the second.
    YMMV
    -bob
    Last edited by Bob; 16th September 2009 at 18:13.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Interesting Factoid popped up on LUF. The product manager for the X1 is Japanese and has been with Leica since 2007. Before that Panasonic.

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    the problem with the dp1 is that it's really a medium format view camera and you have to use it like one. still learning myself!

    wayne
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    Last edited by smokysun; 5th October 2009 at 08:19.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by ljclark View Post
    [...]Just to put a bit of scale to things, Nikon's 17-55 f/2.8 (which, of course, is too slow for some folks here) weighs in at around 750 grams (no caps, no filter). Reworked for a non-DLSR mounting, perhaps Leica could get an f/2.8 version down to around 500 grams. But if you want f/2...
    Yes, but a Summicron-ASPH 35mm weighs just 250 grams. Covers a full frame. I believe that's closer to the standard of what folks are wishing this camera had.

    Seriously, wouldn't a 35mm (equiv) f/2.0 lens that covers this format be smaller than the current ASPH? Maybe bigger than the pancake 2.8, but still...

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    X1 lens design all wrong

    Leica should have used a flat/pancake lens on the X1 rather than that dinky telescopic lens. The X1 lens needs to extend on power-up adding a slight delay and mechanical/motor noise. And when in use it just sticks out like a sore thumb. I much prefer the GF1 in this regard.

  37. #137
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    EU pricing seems to be set: the Dutch shop Foto Konijnenberg has it up at €1575. Do note that this shop usually has very good prices.

    I will start saving. If the money will go to the X1 remains to be seen, but chances are it will.


    Peter.

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    Re: X1 lens design all wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    Leica should have used a flat/pancake lens on the X1 rather than that dinky telescopic lens. The X1 lens needs to extend on power-up adding a slight delay and mechanical/motor noise. And when in use it just sticks out like a sore thumb. I much prefer the GF1 in this regard.
    Amen to that. f/2 designs don't have to be that big. f/1.4 OTOH that's a different story.

    Personally I think the collapsible lens makes the camera look cheap, by association to cheap P/S cameras. We're talking a $2K investment here, not a $150 writeoff. A rigid, slightly larger design would have been much more durable, as well as confidence-inspiring - it's not really a pocketable camera anyway.
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    Re: X1 lens design all wrong

    Quote Originally Posted by lambert View Post
    Leica should have used a flat/pancake lens on the X1 rather than that dinky telescopic lens. The X1 lens needs to extend on power-up adding a slight delay and mechanical/motor noise. And when in use it just sticks out like a sore thumb. I much prefer the GF1 in this regard.
    The GF-1's 20/1.7 also needs to extend before it is ready to shoot, adding delay. Not a big difference.

    I am sure there are reasons (retrofocus design to fit the lens) why the lens has to stick out.

    It is highly unlikely that we would ever find a Hologon type digital camera in the near future.

    A Leica CL+a 28/6 Orion-15 (no need for an external viewfinder)- hard to beat!

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    Re: X1 lens design all wrong

    The GF1 lens does not need to extend. The size of the lens remains as seen in the attached image when in use. And there is no noise when powered up.

    I have owned cameras like the DP1 and DP2 and various point and shoots and I just don't like those long peeperscopic lenses. Particularly since I often leave my camera powered up & ready to shoot.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    The GF-1's 20/1.7 also needs to extend before it is ready to shoot, adding delay. Not a big difference.

    I am sure there are reasons (retrofocus design to fit the lens) why the lens has to stick out.

    It is highly unlikely that we would ever find a Hologon type digital camera in the near future.

    A Leica CL+a 28/6 Orion-15 (no need for an external viewfinder)- hard to beat!

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    The Oly-D 17/2.8 does extend (though not dramatically) when powered up and retracts while idling. This does cause delay. That is more troubling to me than the physical protrusion.

    In any event, the m4/rds (being a system camera) is not a fair comparison to the fixed lens P&S X1.

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    Re: X1 lens design all wrong

    I couldn't agree more. That lens makes the X1 look like a tarted up point and shoot. A pancake lens, on the other had, would have made it appear like a mini M8/9. And apart from aesthetics those multi tiered lenses just don't inspire confidence. I always feel that if knocked or bumped they may break. Leica is all about quality lenses and they could have done a lot better for $2k.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Amen to that. f/2 designs don't have to be that big. f/1.4 OTOH that's a different story.

    Personally I think the collapsible lens makes the camera look cheap, by association to cheap P/S cameras. We're talking a $2K investment here, not a $150 writeoff. A rigid, slightly larger design would have been much more durable, as well as confidence-inspiring - it's not really a pocketable camera anyway.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    So what about the Nikon APS C small camera that is rumored to be coming on NikonRumors.com? If it turns out to be an X1 without the red dot and sells in the $1k price range will you pay the extra $1k for the red dot or go with the Nikon.
    V/r John

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Nikon gets some things right, and other things pretty wrong. Their p&s cameras are pretty lousy from a UI perspective. I doubt they will go with something as simple/elegant as the X1.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    So what about the Nikon APS C small camera that is rumored to be coming on NikonRumors.com? If it turns out to be an X1 without the red dot and sells in the $1k price range will you pay the extra $1k for the red dot or go with the Nikon.

    If it happens, I would think:

    1. It would have a zoom.

    2. One would need to buy Nike software to open/use the RAW files.

    3. Would look ugly.

    4. No EVF just like the X1.


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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    I'm not sure why you think the things you are stating. If they are the real manufacturers of the X1 it may look and function like an X1 without the red dot ala Panasonic with some minor cosmetic differences. On the other hand, if they have been following what has been happening in the m43 world and actually improve on the design, for example supporting interchangeable lenses and an EVF or optical VF with focus confirmation they could have a real winer. We know their noise reduction is good and if you had an D90 in a smaller body without the mirror assembly but mounted Nikor lenses it would be pretty sweet.
    V/r John

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Nike software (extra $) you would need it. You need to keep buying new versions as you change the camera model. Fact.

    There isn't a single P&S digi cam that Nikon made that has a fixed FL lens. Fact.

    Even Oly (who are in on the m4/3rds game) are yet to do a decent camera.
    (well, attractive, yes).

    Decent EVF, I really wonder how many manufacturers can actually do it. Nikon, AFAIK, never made one.

    All that bulk of a regular Nikon DSLR (D90, etc) holds all the electronics. Miniaturization of all that to get a similar performance (noise reduction), remains to be seen.

    BTW, Who said Nikon made the X1?!

    Quote Originally Posted by barjohn View Post
    I'm not sure why you think the things you are stating. If they are the real manufacturers of the X1 it may look and function like an X1 without the red dot ala Panasonic with some minor cosmetic differences. On the other hand, if they have been following what has been happening in the m43 world and actually improve on the design, for example supporting interchangeable lenses and an EVF or optical VF with focus confirmation they could have a real winer. We know their noise reduction is good and if you had an D90 in a smaller body without the mirror assembly but mounted Nikor lenses it would be pretty sweet.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    That is the implication of the Nikonrumors article. Don't know it for a fact.
    V/r John

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    i would seriously doubt that rumor.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Leica are saying its made in germany,maybe that can mean assembled in germany with the parts made elsewhere,I dont think it really matters any more,whats important is the quality of the final product.Initial reports dont critisize the build of the X1 but I cant help but notice that the shutter release and lock look "panosonic".

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