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Thread: The X1 Chat Box

  1. #151
    Senior Member Lars's Avatar
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Nike software (extra $) you would need it. You need to keep buying new versions as you change the camera model.
    Not quite accurate. Most major software makers support all Nikon cameras, including the weird P6000 with its different extension. Most major software makers also update compatibility as new models hit the market.

    Arguing that the $2K X1 comes with software is a bit like a car salesman throwing in a set of floor mats to a new car - hardly a dent in the profit margin. Sometimes you have to take a step back and see the overpricing for what it is.
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  2. #152
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by nei1 View Post
    Leica are saying its made in germany,maybe that can mean assembled in germany with the parts made elsewhere,I dont think it really matters any more,whats important is the quality of the final product.Initial reports dont critisize the build of the X1 but I cant help but notice that the shutter release and lock look "panosonic".
    Perhaps it is like the M9 which is mostly assembled/manufactured in Portugal and then shipped to Germany where the sensor is fitted and calibrated.

  3. #153
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    All that bulk of a regular Nikon DSLR (D90, etc) holds all the electronics. Miniaturization of all that to get a similar performance (noise reduction), remains to be seen.
    I doubt it. Most of the bulk is the viewfinder, the mirror box and the mini mirror and AF mechanism. Add the large battery compartment and that is what makes up the bulk of an SLR. The G/F1, EP1 and X1 have proven that.
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  4. #154
    Senior Member Braeside's Avatar
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    This is what I cannot understand about the price of these mirrorless designs, they have much less mechanics and parts, yet in many cases cost more than a DSLR.
    David Anderson

  5. #155
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    I doubt it. Most of the bulk is the viewfinder, the mirror box and the mini mirror and AF mechanism. Add the large battery compartment and that is what makes up the bulk of an SLR. The G/F1, EP1 and X1 have proven that.
    Having dis-assembled D70, D80, D40x, D200 (pretty much every single model cost me > Euro 150 upwards of Nike software, not to mention the later D300, etc) and an Olympus E-410 in addition to the latest Pana G1, I would say that the electronics/boards need to shrink to bring down the overall bulk.
    Last edited by Vivek; 18th September 2009 at 04:46.

  6. #156
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by totallynatural View Post
    I too was hoping (in hindsight, very very optimistically) that the X1 was going to be priced at around £1000-1500. I love the style of it, the shutter speed dial etc, pop up flash etc. I do not doubt at all that the X1 will be capable in the right hands of fantastic pics.

    At that price I may have been able to sell a few things (including my current camera) to afford it (I prefer to shoot at a single focal length using primes) and like the 35-40mm field of view. I also find using a single focal length forces me to think more about framing shots.

    The price of £2000, however, for a fixed focal length knocks it straight out of the ball park for me.

    I am also miffed that the optional viewfinder still does not come with an focus assist light (especially as I assume it will not be a cheap accessory).

    I think I'll stick to saving for some M-mount primes for my G1. I know Leica is considered 'elite' in terms of its products but I thought they were trying to get new customers (and £1000-1500 for fixed lens camera still isn't cheap).

    By pricing it as they did they relegate a lot of keen photographers who are not affluent but who would eventually like to own a leica product to continually dreaming.:sleep006:

    Fingers crossed rumours about an pentax mount interchangeable lens Ricoh are true...heres hoping

    If thats fails I'd better start saving for a M9 (or M11 as it will be by the time I can afford one :-) )

    I thought the price was $2000, not GBP2000. Its still way too expensive.

  7. #157
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Hi,

    Quote Originally Posted by Braeside View Post
    This is what I cannot understand about the price of these mirrorless designs, they have much less mechanics and parts, yet in many cases cost more than a DSLR.
    I guess it's like electric cars. If you buy a purely electric car now, it's also a lot less mechanical than a fuel one. Why is it more expensive ? Because it's newer and for that reason, harder to make. Add to that the lower demand and you've got a more expensive solution which looks like it should be cheaper.

    It does have the potential of becoming cheaper, though.



    Peter.

  8. #158
    Subscriber Member kit laughlin's Avatar
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Hello Guy, et al.,

    I like the concept and (time will tell) the execution of the X1. I have a DP-2 with the Freniac grip, an LX-3, a G1 and maybe will have the GF-1—so small cameras are attractive to me (work is done with a brace of D700s).

    $2,000 USD expensive? Well, that depends, doesn't it?

    Guy's mention of the 'pick up on the way out the door' camera made me think: it is the LX-3, for the moment; it might be the X1 in time.

    For me, the 41 EFOV of the Sigma is working. If the X1's sensor is the same as the D300's, AND the lens is stellar, the X1 will make great images. And I use on-camera flash all the time outdoors (set to -2.0 EV!). cheers all

  9. #159
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    A more extensive review of the X1 than anything I've seen so far (it's in spanish). At the end there are 2 sample images.

    http://www.dslrmagazine.com/pruebas/...ultados-2.html

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Leica Digilux 3 was sold for $1995 when it first debut with interchangeable 4/3rds lenses. The X1 has fixed lens 35mm f2.8 Summarit and it's $2000 ???

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Braeside View Post
    Sony A700 sensor? - No?
    I agree David as Sony supply sensors to Nikon and therefore if it is the Nikon sensor it IS the Sony A700 sensor. That sensor is very good indeed on the Sony DSLR and should perform admirably on the X1 with the Elmar lens.
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  12. #162
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by cdnguyen View Post
    Leica Digilux 3 was sold for $1995 when it first debut with interchangeable 4/3rds lenses. The X1 has fixed lens 35mm f2.8 Summarit and it's $2000 ???
    Well...The lens isn't a 35mm f/2.8 Summarit. (BTW...Are any Summarits f/2.8?)

    And another way to look at this "comparison" is that the Digilux 3 didn't have any lens at that price. Your opening statement needs to be slightly restated along the lines of "...first debut without interchangeable 4/3rds lenses."

    I'm not outraged, nor surprised, at the likely price of the X1. Neither am I surprised about the price of red dot Panasonics. The X1 is an interesting, intriguing concept. In some ways it goes back to a time when a lot of people bought a camera with a fixed lens, took a lot of pictures in a lot of places around the world, and didn't think they were shortchanged at all.

    The FOV of the X1 represents (IMHO) the best choice for a fixed focal length camera. My feeling is that a photographer should be able to take a camera with that FOV out for a day and come back with a bunch of darn good photos.

    Some folks don't "get" the X1 -- for whatever excuse they decide to use: Lens too slow; no zoom; no interchangeable lenses; no optical viewfinder; no electronic viewfinder, no mechanical rangefinder; no electronic rangefinder; no filter threads; no accessory lens hood; no circumferential aperture control; no built-in hand sanitizer dispenser, etc. Some folks even puff themselves up and call these deficiencies "deal breakers".

    The X1 is what it is. If you don't "get" the X1 concept, you obviously aren't a target customer. No big deal.

    Leica is taking a risk, and they are hoping that they read the market correctly. I hope they succeed. And if the X1 does well enough, we might see an X2 and X3.

    Remember the Cosina/Voigtlander Bessa L? A "rangefinder" camera without a rangefinder. It got me back into RF -- along with thousands of other photographers. That simple LTM body led me though a series of nice Bessa bodies, eventually a pair of M6s, and now an M8 (and still one M6). How can one look at the X1 chassis and not see the potential for development and expansion?

  13. #163
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Wow... People are still discussing the price 3 weeks later. It is what it is. I would be more interested in it if it were a true spiritual successor to the Digilux 2 (since it has a fixed lens design) or if it were Micro 4/3 (they are against that route.) It's not so I will just move along.

    I hope it fills whatever need they think it's filling and if not well better luck next time.
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Frankly, I'd snap it up if it had three proprietary lenses available: a 20 - 24 or so (30-35 equiv.), a 50ish equiv.; and something equivalent to about 90-100mm (i.e. a 60-70mm). With this option the price would be fine to me. As it is, it's still interesting to me, but so is the GF-1. I'll be interested in seeing files from each.

  15. #165
    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Here's another perspective on the price of the X1.

    The camera has a 35mm (equiv) f/2.8 Leica lens. The closest Leica M lens is the 35mm Summarit f/2.5. That lens retails for $1595.

    The X1 retails for $1995. So, you're getting an APS-C camera of Leica quality for $400. Now THAT's a deal!

  16. #166
    Senior Member barjohn's Avatar
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    I hope you aren't equaling a brass lens with high quality glass optics to a telescoping plastic lens.
    V/r John

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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    John,
    Are the X1 optics plastic?

  18. #168
    nei1
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    Smile Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Ive heard the"re made from leica "motif"s crushed together with white doves of peace to make an indestructable amalgam,..very leica and ,more importantly ,very you.

    Brad youre forgetting what it used to cost in film ,processing and printing;this makes the camera a money maker after less than a year,.............Thankyou Leica ,god bless you.

  19. #169
    nautilus
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    I don't see the X1 camera as a compact camera oder micro four thirds class camera.
    It's a little M camera for the situations (or always if one likes) I want to use a lighter and smaller camera or a camera without carrying a lot of different lenses with me to change them and Leica's assurance that I get a M like picture quality.
    The buyer of the camera is furthermore very sure that he isn't looking for a camera as a substitute for a versatile system camera with interchangeable lenses.

    After these thoughts one can start to calculate if the camera is worth the price:
    (1) lens quality like M
    (2) permanently attached camera is for free, I can already say at this moment
    (3) best classic user interface on the digital camera market if you don't take M9 into account
    (4) most beautiful apperance
    (5) only smaller M substitute on the market

    I think this camera is pricewise the most fair offering in Leica's portfolio.
    Try to find such a lens at Nikon or Canon, you will not find one. Take the closest in quality and have a look at the price, add one of the cheaper plastic bodies and you are more expensive than X1 is included the optional viewfinder.
    To say that this camera is priced too high is wrong. But the camera is unique and therefore it's difficult to judge the price correct.

  20. #170
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by nautilus View Post
    ... But the camera is unique and therefore it's difficult to judge the price correct.
    How is the concept of this camera any different than that of the DP1 or DP2? It's a fixed lens design with a large sensor. The concept is the same. The sensor is different (to be specific it's slightly larger.) This camera competes directly with those cameras and people are more critical of the X1 for some of the same reasons they are critical of the DP1/2 - lack of flexibility (even if they are capable of great imagery.) The stipulation here is the much higher X1 price.

    I'm sure it will be capable of very good images but the lack of flexibility in the optics is what bothers me so much personally with the price. That's one of the main reasons I'm saving up for the M9. I will just keep the G1/D-Lux 4 combo that I would have possibly sold for the X1 if they had at least a 24-85ish equivalent zoom lens on the X1.
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  21. #171
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    Here's another perspective on the price of the X1.

    The camera has a 35mm (equiv) f/2.8 Leica lens. The closest Leica M lens is the 35mm Summarit f/2.5. That lens retails for $1595.

    The X1 retails for $1995. So, you're getting an APS-C camera of Leica quality for $400. Now THAT's a deal!
    HI Brad
    I quite agree . . . as long as the quality is up with the 35 summarit (a lovely lens IMHO)

    If it really does take M quality pictures at that price, it's a steal . . I guess I'll be taking the M9 with the 35 summarit when I want to travel light though.

    Just this guy you know

  22. #172
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by HiredArm View Post
    How is the concept of this camera any different than that of the DP1 or DP2? It's a fixed lens design with a large sensor.
    The concept might be the same but execution will be very different!

  23. #173
    nei1
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    WOULDNT IT HAVE BEEN NICE IF THAT POP UP FLASH HAD BEEN A POP UP VIEWFINDER:

  24. #174
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    The concept might be the same but execution will be very different!
    It's possible but all of that remains to be seen at this point.
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Jono,
    The M9 + 35 summarit will be a lovely combo, but weighs about 830 grams. The X1 weighs about 330 grams. Half a kilo is a big difference when you're trying to travel light. I look forward to trying them both.
    -Brad

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    The M lenses are indeed beautifully executed extremely high quality lenses. While they are clearly above the CV lenses (though not by a huge amount) it is very close when it comes to the Zeiss lenses. I'm just not sure you can equate the X1's telescoping ala P&S camera's plastic barreled lens in terms of optical quality or otherwise. I'm not sure how image quality will compare since many Leica fans seem opposed to greater than 1.3 crop factor and CMOS sensors. Of course it may turn out the files look better than the M9's because of the CMOS sensor being better than the CCD sensor and the lens being the equal to the M version.
    V/r John

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Of course all of this will come out in the wash once we get our hands on the camera. It's quite possible that because the lens was designed from the outset with the single purpose of imaging this sensor the results could be spectacular. Let's see.

    It's a good time to be shooting.

  28. #178
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    I suppose I'm buying one since I haven't pulled the trigger on any other "middle camera" yet. Of course that may just be a side product of slowly buying "L" glass for the Canon

    There seems to be some question about image stabilization. Does it have any? Some early reports said yes but when I glanced through the Leica tech specs it isn't mentioned. Or maybe I missed it...

  29. #179
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Yes, it has IS.

  30. #180
    Senior Member nostatic's Avatar
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Yes, it has IS.
    ok, me buy one

    well, with above caveats about iq and handling...

  31. #181
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    I think I'm buying *me* one but I want to handle it first.

  32. #182
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Here is my take:
    I compare the x1 to the dp1 and dp2 and assume the following:
    1) 35mm FOV is a very good compromise IMO and a very flexible FOV. Maybe the ideal middle between the 28 and 41 of the dp1 and dp2.
    2) aps-size sensor sounds like really usable higher ISO. so I expect the x1 to do better than the dp1/dp2 at higher ISO and also slightly better than the EP1 (because of sensor size)
    3) sharpness: I assume the sensor wont be as sharp as the M8/M9 since it will have an AA-filter, and also be not as sharp as the dp1/dp2. On the other side the color balance with the foveon sensor seems sometimes not as great as expected, specially with skin colors. So I expect the x1 to be more balanced regarding color.
    4) handling: I believe the succes of the x1 will depend a lot on how fast it works, AF, raw write time, shutter lag.

    If the handling is fast I believe this will be a great little camera - even though it is not cheap.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    There are some things here that I think are right on with the X1...

    Because leica was free to give a fresh start, the shutter dial is biased towards the back of the camera, allowing for shutter speed to be adjusted by your thumb, independant of the shutter finger.

    I actually prefer this to an M8/8.2/9, since the on/off/continuous switch is controlled by the index finger as well, and it's easy to accidently hit this and activate a self timer, etc.

    The set button in the middle of the four-way controller makes a lot of sense too.

    It really does look like a mini M. I wish they could have integrated a fixed-focal rangefinder into it for that price.. how cool would that be?

  34. #184
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by monza View Post
    Yes, it has IS.
    I saw this information on the spanish menue (spanish website review with pictures of the menues).
    But there are many unanswered questions about what kind of stabilisation this is. Sensor, lens, auto-ISO adjustment?

    At this moment another question comes to my mind. Does the camera offer a video feature? I never thought about that question before because the camera looks like the perfect photographic tool (for me at least).

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Anyone seen any results anywhere yet???????

    This seems like a great idea, although expensive.

    I guess, I need to be shown the merits of this camera before I buy one.

    Martin

  36. #186
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    I'm assuming it is lens OIS as Leica has worked with Panasonic in the past (and present), making lenses that are stabilized. Since we don't seem to have an idea of who they collaborated with on the body, it isn't clear where they would get that technology. If they were playing nice with Pentax, Sony or Oly then maybe they got some help. If it was Nikon, Canon or Panasonic, then definitely it is lens OIS.

    I'm also willing to bet that video would be available via a firmware upgrade, but that Leica isn't going that direction to appeal to the "pure" still photo customers. There is plenty of complaining from some Canikon users over the prospect of video being included in a "serious" camera like the D3x or 1D series. From a differentiation standpoint, I could see Leica saying, "we don't do video" (even though the DLux4 does).

  37. #187
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    A reflection on the X1's Leica heritage

    I was reading my Laney's collecter's guide this afternoon and was struck by how the design of the X1 draws on the Leica Standard E for it's look. It shows to me Leica is sticking to it's long heritage and design tradition.

    I'm happy to see this. For me the X1 is becoming an camera of interest. I could care less if it's made in Tatooine by nerf herders.

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  38. #188
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    I'm happy to see this. For me the X1 is becoming an camera of interest. I could care less if it's made in Tatooine by nerf herders.
    Do you have a pointer to this rumor? DPR?

    Frankly I think that Jawas are responsible. If anyone could get a Leica to AF, it would be that pesky group.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin S View Post
    Anyone seen any results anywhere yet???????

    This seems like a great idea, although expensive.

    I guess, I need to be shown the merits of this camera before I buy one.

    Martin
    Only two places I know:

    1) This is an extensive preview in spanish with 2 sample images at the end:

    http://www.dslrmagazine.com/pruebas/...ltados-15.html

    2) And there are a few images at leicarumors:

    http://leicarumors.com/2009/09/14/fi...leica-x1.aspx/


    It's hard to make anything like a definite judgement from the samples, but it looks very promising to me.

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    Deceased, but remembered fondly here... johnastovall's Avatar
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by nostatic View Post
    Do you have a pointer to this rumor? DPR?

    Frankly I think that Jawas are responsible. If anyone could get a Leica to AF, it would be that pesky group.
    Actually you are correct. There is a post in L-Camera forum confirming a base plate has been seen saying, "Made by Jawas."

    "The market wants a Leica to be a Leica: the inheritor of tradition, the subject of lore, and indisputably a mark of status to own."
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  41. #191
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by johnastovall View Post
    Actually you are correct. There is a post in L-Camera forum confirming a base plate has been seen saying, "Made by Jawas."
    That's a little creepy, as I hadn't seen that thread before I posted my comment.

    Perhaps I have a sychronicitous doppleganger.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Slowish, fixed lens APS cam, versus a similar concept interchangeable lens camera with fast-ish glass... Hmmmm...

    I got to wonder WTF Leica was thinking here. I mean micro 4/3rds has proven itself to be stellar with IQ -- at least as good as APS -- and offers a vast array of interchangeable lens optionss. Can't imagine it would take much innovation for Leica to alter its 4/3rds mount lenses to micro 4/3rds -- or just continue to sell an adapter with them? Shaking my head on this one...
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Hypothetically: If the X1 had a Panasonic label and and a price tag of $1200, how would it be received?
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Slowish, fixed lens APS cam, versus a similar concept interchangeable lens camera with fast-ish glass... Hmmmm...

    I got to wonder WTF Leica was thinking here. I mean micro 4/3rds has proven itself to be stellar with IQ -- at least as good as APS -- and offers a vast array of interchangeable lens optionss. Can't imagine it would take much innovation for Leica to alter its 4/3rds mount lenses to micro 4/3rds -- or just continue to sell an adapter with them? Shaking my head on this one...
    I see it as the perfect modern replacement of my old favorite, the Rollei 35S. Fixed f/2.8 lens, all controls big, bright and easy to work on the body. Nothing to get in the way or distract, no lens choices, just see with your eyes and use the camera to capture your vision.

    Not the same as an interchangeable lens camera, not as versatile in one sense, but inciting a different kind of versatility: creativity within constraints.

    If I could afford it, I'd have ordered one already.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Slowish, fixed lens APS cam, versus a similar concept interchangeable lens camera with fast-ish glass... Hmmmm...

    I got to wonder WTF Leica was thinking here. I mean micro 4/3rds has proven itself to be stellar with IQ -- at least as good as APS -- and offers a vast array of interchangeable lens optionss. Can't imagine it would take much innovation for Leica to alter its 4/3rds mount lenses to micro 4/3rds -- or just continue to sell an adapter with them? Shaking my head on this one...
    There is one obvious point here that comes to mind. A retracting lens makes it more pocketable than any interchangeable option. (You can say pancake is just slightly bigger, but this slight difference is a lot to some, and an IQ compromise is involved).

    The other difference from going the 4/3ds route is that the concept of the camera is very, very clean, and that can count for a lot (we of course still have to see the camera). Along these lines, I'd also second what Godfrey said above.

    If they indeed get it right, I'll buy this camera in a heartbeat. Budget permitting.

  46. #196
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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Slowish, fixed lens APS cam, versus a similar concept interchangeable lens camera with fast-ish glass... Hmmmm...
    Would depend on the mount, wouldn't it? What do you think the price of the same body should be without the lens? $1200-$1300? I don't see Leica ever putting out an M mount body for that kind of money, or at least not in the foreseeable future. Then they have come up with a completely new mount and a range of compact glass for this camera, which doesn't make sense at this point in time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    I got to wonder WTF Leica was thinking here. I mean micro 4/3rds has proven itself to be stellar with IQ -- at least as good as APS -- and offers a vast array of interchangeable lens optionss. Can't imagine it would take much innovation for Leica to alter its 4/3rds mount lenses to micro 4/3rds -- or just continue to sell an adapter with them? Shaking my head on this one...
    I must admit to having been much keener on the IQ of the micro 4/3rds before getting one, but its debatable now. I'm struggling with my GH1, I don't see the IQ anywhere near APS quality of my dlrs, if anything its closer to my none Fuji P&S cameras. I must even admit that as much as I hated the dp1 its IQ was head and shoulders above the Panasonic. I'm having hell of a time with skin tones, specially with black skin. DR is limited or at least that's how I see it using PS and iso 400 is my acceptable limit for screen and even lower for print. On the glass front I don't find any of the my Panasonic or Oly micro 4/3rds lenses better than adequate and to start using high end Zeiss or Leica glass with various adapters, well, at that point I'll use my dslrs. I don't have a collection of vintage lenses to get excited about using either nor am I in the mood to start one; I can now understand how Jono felt when he got the G1.

    I'm not sure how this camera would do and if the Leica name is enough of a pull. For me to start taking it seriously at that price, it must perform at least as good as a similar costing dslr with Zeiss glass...
    Last edited by ddk; 6th October 2009 at 10:46.

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    ... I must admit to having been much keener on the IQ of the micro 4/3rds before getting one, but its debatable now. I'm struggling with my GH1, I don't see the IQ anywhere near APS quality of my dlrs, if anything its closer to my none Fuji P&S cameras. I must even admit that as much as I hated the dp1 its IQ was head and shoulders above the Panasonic. I'm having hell of a time with skin tones, specially with black skin. DR is limited or at least that's how I see it using PS and iso 400 is my acceptable limit for screen and even lower for print. On the glass front I don't find any of the my Panasonic or Oly micro 4/3rds lenses better than adequate and to start using high end Zeiss or Leica glass with various adapters, well, at that point I'll use my dslrs. I don't have a collection of vintage lenses to get excited about using either nor am I in the mood to start one; I can now understand how Jono felt when he got the G1. ...
    It's amazing to me how opposite my experience with the G1/GF1/GH1 are to this. I find it produces better to on par image quality with all the DSLRs I've been using, from Canon to Nikon to Pentax to Olympus. Color is simply a matter of what I do in rendering the RAW files, with all of them.

    Of course, top quality lenses count for all of these cameras. But the G Vario 14-45 produces surprisingly excellent results ... I don't use it much simply because it's too slow for me a lot of the time, but when I am working on a tripod it's produced excellent results. I prefer fast primes for hand-held work.

    Which has nothing to do with the X1 ... but such it is. ;-)

    DPReview just published a 9 page preview on the X1. I love the design of this camera, everything is beautifully done. I could well be incited to eschew buying the interchangeable lens mFT compact (GF1) I've planned to and buy this instead ... but at rather great additional cost. I'm sure the lens and sensor are going to be excellent.

    Hmmm...

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    The X1 is a totally different camera than any of the m 4/3's. Single focal length, with a slightly larger sensor. The added cost had better be due to better handling, better interface, and of course, better images (lens, and sensor).

    The design is indeed seductive. However, before plunking down $2000, I want to see some credible reviews of the actual imaging results. A debacle like the M8's IR problems would sorely impact on this camera. Let's hope for a "clean" introduction, and review.

    Martin

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    It's amazing to me how opposite my experience with the G1/GF1/GH1 are to this.
    That's the beauty of this place, we hope to learn from each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I find it produces better to on par image quality with all the DSLRs I've been using, from Canon to Nikon to Pentax to Olympus. Color is simply a matter of what I do in rendering the RAW files, with all of them.
    I don't know which dlsrs you have Godfrey but I can't get anything near my lowly Fuji S5 quality from the GH1, love to see some samples, maybe I'm doing something wrong.

    Yes, I can vary the colors with processing too but I don't seem to get any decent skin tones, no matter what, specially black skin, do you have any good dark skin samples to post?

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Of course, top quality lenses count for all of these cameras. But the G Vario 14-45 produces surprisingly excellent results ... I don't use it much simply because it's too slow for me a lot of the time, but when I am working on a tripod it's produced excellent results. I prefer fast primes for hand-held work.
    I find both my 14-140 and 7-14 zooms too slow as well, specially since I find them useless wide open. I almost never use tripods so iso 400 and above is the reality for me when using the current micro 4/3rd zooms. I'm curious about what you're comparing your 14-45 IQ to. I'm asking these questions hoping to be proven wrong, I very much want to like the GH1, for a lot reasons!

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Which has nothing to do with the X1 ... but such it is. ;-)

    DPReview just published a 9 page preview on the X1. I love the design of this camera, everything is beautifully done. I could well be incited to eschew buying the interchangeable lens mFT compact (GF1) I've planned to and buy this instead ... but at rather great additional cost. I'm sure the lens and sensor are going to be excellent.

    Hmmm...

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    Re: The X1 Chat Box

    If the X1 performs well as a compact quality street and travel camera.......I think Leica priced it right. If you buy a used M8 and basic 35mm Summarit F2.5 lens the minimum price in todays market is $3500.......2K for the M8 body and $1500 for the lens. If you buy a used Summarit you might be able to reduce the cost to $3000. This gives you the advantage of adding other M lenses to the M8 in the future at the added cost. If all you need is a quality compact camera with one lens a base price of $2000 seems in line with Leica prices for M cameras.

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