dhsimmonds
New member
I agree David as Sony supply sensors to Nikon and therefore if it is the Nikon sensor it IS the Sony A700 sensor. That sensor is very good indeed on the Sony DSLR and should perform admirably on the X1 with the Elmar lens.
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The X1 Chat Box
- Thread starter Guy Mancuso
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ljclark
Guest
Well...The lens isn't a 35mm f/2.8 Summarit. (BTW...Are any Summarits f/2.8?)
And another way to look at this "comparison" is that the Digilux 3 didn't have any lens at that price. Your opening statement needs to be slightly restated along the lines of "...first debut without interchangeable 4/3rds lenses."
I'm not outraged, nor surprised, at the likely price of the X1. Neither am I surprised about the price of red dot Panasonics. The X1 is an interesting, intriguing concept. In some ways it goes back to a time when a lot of people bought a camera with a fixed lens, took a lot of pictures in a lot of places around the world, and didn't think they were shortchanged at all.
The FOV of the X1 represents (IMHO) the best choice for a fixed focal length camera. My feeling is that a photographer should be able to take a camera with that FOV out for a day and come back with a bunch of darn good photos.
Some folks don't "get" the X1 -- for whatever excuse they decide to use: Lens too slow; no zoom; no interchangeable lenses; no optical viewfinder; no electronic viewfinder, no mechanical rangefinder; no electronic rangefinder; no filter threads; no accessory lens hood; no circumferential aperture control; no built-in hand sanitizer dispenser, etc. Some folks even puff themselves up and call these deficiencies "deal breakers".
The X1 is what it is. If you don't "get" the X1 concept, you obviously aren't a target customer. No big deal.
Leica is taking a risk, and they are hoping that they read the market correctly. I hope they succeed. And if the X1 does well enough, we might see an X2 and X3.
Remember the Cosina/Voigtlander Bessa L? A "rangefinder" camera without a rangefinder. It got me back into RF -- along with thousands of other photographers. That simple LTM body led me though a series of nice Bessa bodies, eventually a pair of M6s, and now an M8 (and still one M6). How can one look at the X1 chassis and not see the potential for development and expansion?
iiiNelson
Well-known member
Wow... People are still discussing the price 3 weeks later. It is what it is. I would be more interested in it if it were a true spiritual successor to the Digilux 2 (since it has a fixed lens design) or if it were Micro 4/3 (they are against that route.) It's not so I will just move along.
I hope it fills whatever need they think it's filling and if not well better luck next time.
I hope it fills whatever need they think it's filling and if not well better luck next time.
Dale Allyn
New member
Frankly, I'd snap it up if it had three proprietary lenses available: a 20 - 24 or so (30-35 equiv.), a 50ish equiv.; and something equivalent to about 90-100mm (i.e. a 60-70mm). With this option the price would be fine to me. As it is, it's still interesting to me, but so is the GF-1. I'll be interested in seeing files from each.
bradhusick
Active member
Here's another perspective on the price of the X1.
The camera has a 35mm (equiv) f/2.8 Leica lens. The closest Leica M lens is the 35mm Summarit f/2.5. That lens retails for $1595.
The X1 retails for $1995. So, you're getting an APS-C camera of Leica quality for $400. Now THAT's a deal!
The camera has a 35mm (equiv) f/2.8 Leica lens. The closest Leica M lens is the 35mm Summarit f/2.5. That lens retails for $1595.
The X1 retails for $1995. So, you're getting an APS-C camera of Leica quality for $400. Now THAT's a deal!
bradhusick
Active member
John,
Are the X1 optics plastic?
Are the X1 optics plastic?
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nei1
Guest
Ive heard the"re made from leica "motif"s crushed together with white doves of peace to make an indestructable amalgam,..very leica and ,more importantly ,very you.
Brad youre forgetting what it used to cost in film ,processing and printing;this makes the camera a money maker after less than a year,.............Thankyou Leica ,god bless you.:thumbs:
Brad youre forgetting what it used to cost in film ,processing and printing;this makes the camera a money maker after less than a year,.............Thankyou Leica ,god bless you.:thumbs:
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nautilus
Guest
I don't see the X1 camera as a compact camera oder micro four thirds class camera.
It's a little M camera for the situations (or always if one likes) I want to use a lighter and smaller camera or a camera without carrying a lot of different lenses with me to change them and Leica's assurance that I get a M like picture quality.
The buyer of the camera is furthermore very sure that he isn't looking for a camera as a substitute for a versatile system camera with interchangeable lenses.
After these thoughts one can start to calculate if the camera is worth the price:
(1) lens quality like M
(2) permanently attached camera is for free, I can already say at this moment
(3) best classic user interface on the digital camera market if you don't take M9 into account
(4) most beautiful apperance
(5) only smaller M substitute on the market
I think this camera is pricewise the most fair offering in Leica's portfolio.
Try to find such a lens at Nikon or Canon, you will not find one. Take the closest in quality and have a look at the price, add one of the cheaper plastic bodies and you are more expensive than X1 is included the optional viewfinder.
To say that this camera is priced too high is wrong. But the camera is unique and therefore it's difficult to judge the price correct.
It's a little M camera for the situations (or always if one likes) I want to use a lighter and smaller camera or a camera without carrying a lot of different lenses with me to change them and Leica's assurance that I get a M like picture quality.
The buyer of the camera is furthermore very sure that he isn't looking for a camera as a substitute for a versatile system camera with interchangeable lenses.
After these thoughts one can start to calculate if the camera is worth the price:
(1) lens quality like M
(2) permanently attached camera is for free, I can already say at this moment
(3) best classic user interface on the digital camera market if you don't take M9 into account
(4) most beautiful apperance
(5) only smaller M substitute on the market
I think this camera is pricewise the most fair offering in Leica's portfolio.
Try to find such a lens at Nikon or Canon, you will not find one. Take the closest in quality and have a look at the price, add one of the cheaper plastic bodies and you are more expensive than X1 is included the optional viewfinder.
To say that this camera is priced too high is wrong. But the camera is unique and therefore it's difficult to judge the price correct.
iiiNelson
Well-known member
How is the concept of this camera any different than that of the DP1 or DP2? It's a fixed lens design with a large sensor. The concept is the same. The sensor is different (to be specific it's slightly larger.) This camera competes directly with those cameras and people are more critical of the X1 for some of the same reasons they are critical of the DP1/2 - lack of flexibility (even if they are capable of great imagery.) The stipulation here is the much higher X1 price.
I'm sure it will be capable of very good images but the lack of flexibility in the optics is what bothers me so much personally with the price. That's one of the main reasons I'm saving up for the M9. I will just keep the G1/D-Lux 4 combo that I would have possibly sold for the X1 if they had at least a 24-85ish equivalent zoom lens on the X1.
jonoslack
Active member
HI Brad
I quite agree . . . as long as the quality is up with the 35 summarit (a lovely lens IMHO)
If it really does take M quality pictures at that price, it's a steal . . I guess I'll be taking the M9 with the 35 summarit when I want to travel light though.
D
ddk
Guest
The concept might be the same but execution will be very different!
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nei1
Guest
WOULDNT IT HAVE BEEN NICE IF THAT POP UP FLASH HAD BEEN A POP UP VIEWFINDER:
bradhusick
Active member
Jono,
The M9 + 35 summarit will be a lovely combo, but weighs about 830 grams. The X1 weighs about 330 grams. Half a kilo is a big difference when you're trying to travel light. I look forward to trying them both.
-Brad
The M9 + 35 summarit will be a lovely combo, but weighs about 830 grams. The X1 weighs about 330 grams. Half a kilo is a big difference when you're trying to travel light. I look forward to trying them both.
-Brad
barjohn
New member
The M lenses are indeed beautifully executed extremely high quality lenses. While they are clearly above the CV lenses (though not by a huge amount) it is very close when it comes to the Zeiss lenses. I'm just not sure you can equate the X1's telescoping ala P&S camera's plastic barreled lens in terms of optical quality or otherwise. I'm not sure how image quality will compare since many Leica fans seem opposed to greater than 1.3 crop factor and CMOS sensors. Of course it may turn out the files look better than the M9's because of the CMOS sensor being better than the CCD sensor and the lens being the equal to the M version.
bradhusick
Active member
Of course all of this will come out in the wash once we get our hands on the camera. It's quite possible that because the lens was designed from the outset with the single purpose of imaging this sensor the results could be spectacular. Let's see.
It's a good time to be shooting.
It's a good time to be shooting.
nostatic
New member
I suppose I'm buying one since I haven't pulled the trigger on any other "middle camera" yet. Of course that may just be a side product of slowly buying "L" glass for the Canon
There seems to be some question about image stabilization. Does it have any? Some early reports said yes but when I glanced through the Leica tech specs it isn't mentioned. Or maybe I missed it...
There seems to be some question about image stabilization. Does it have any? Some early reports said yes but when I glanced through the Leica tech specs it isn't mentioned. Or maybe I missed it...