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Thread: Recycle M8 batteries

  1. #1
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Recycle M8 batteries

    Well after what went on in Moab with my batteries failing in the cold weather. i was inspired to deep recycle my batteries all six of them and almost done. But if you want to do this , here is the process turn camera on and drain to fully discharged than charge over again. Make sure in the menu you set camera to not turn off. Now my batteries maybe close to end of useful life since there are countless recharging and over 30 k on my actuations with my bodies. not sure how long these batteries will truly last but if anyone will know it will most likely be me first since i had these since day one and maybe have shot more on them than most people. Hopefully this deep recycle will bring them back to life much better.
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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Guy, Li Ion batteries don't last forever. Even if they are not used at all, I have read they have a useful life of only a few years. When you get them all charged up, let us know roughly what fraction of there original capacity they seem to have. 100% would be outstanding, 75% pretty darn good, ...

    scott

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    I will do that Scott . Interested to see how many frames I can get now. Taken a full day to do this . LOL
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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Just ended doing my 2 M8s' battery as well just a few thousand shots on them, but I recycled them anyway just in case...
    Vieri Bottazzini
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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Here is a nicely written page on Li-ion batteries.
    Bottom line is that they wear out in 300-500 cycles and slowly go bad aggravated by high storage charge levels.
    http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
    -bob

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    and it is key to think about the difference between a full charge cycle, which the Li-Ion battery cycles are geared for, versus partial charges that the smart chip tries to keep added up against the total number of cycles.

    I have been so conditioned to do a monthly deep cycle recharge on my Canon NiMH batteries, that I have taken to doing the same, but every other month on my Leica batteries. After that early debacle with battery charge states and meter readings and stuff for the M8, I created my own battery conditioning schedule and have not had a single problem yet.....knock on wood.

    Guy, it will be interesting to see how your deep cycle recharge works after all the various "top off" efforts. Another thing to consider, Li-Ions do not seem to do greatly in cold. Maybe not as bad as some others, but I find them to loose charge a lot faster. The good things...winter is nearing end in many places, and the batteries are small enough to keep in a warm interior pocket more easily than the big honking Canon bricks ;-)

    LJ

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Here is a nicely written page on Li-ion batteries.
    Bottom line is that they wear out in 300-500 cycles and slowly go bad aggravated by high storage charge levels.
    http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
    -bob
    Thanks, that's a very interesting site and a relevant page for us. I would also point out his Fig. 3, which shows that gentle discharges give more cycles even when you are counting complete discharges. (The labels 1C, 2C, 3C refer to discharge rates. 1C means that the battery is discharged in one hour, 2C in half an hour, 3C in 1/3 of an hour.) Since I can't shoot fast enough to discharge my battery in an hour, I think we are in the gentle category. Anyone have a different experience, say in an event or sports setting?

    The other point that is made is that in camera/battery systems the chemistry of a Li-ion battery is not affected by recharging a partially discharged battery, as is the case with NiMH, but the smart battery meter can get confused. So it is the meter which cuts off the battery too soon, or permits it to run down to the point where damage occurs. A full discharge every 30 charges (that can't be more than once a month, I guess) is recommended.

    scott

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Good points guy's . i have a little shoot tomorrow . My wife and her big mouth . Oh, Guy can shoot your baby. Love her to death but i need a muzzle on my wife's mouth.

    let's see if this truly worked , they all say full but you know how that goes.
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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Usually, I just shoot until the battery dies. (Mostly Landscapes.) Replace with my spare.

    Is this as good or better than leaving the camera on to run the battery fully down?

    Thanks,

    Mitchell

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchell View Post
    Usually, I just shoot until the battery dies. (Mostly Landscapes.) Replace with my spare.

    Is this as good or better than leaving the camera on to run the battery fully down?
    If your objective is to run the battery all the way down, it doesn't matter which way you do it. But your battery will probably last longer if you recharge it when it's partially depleted. More convenient, too.

    scott

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    My usual habit is to recharge at the end of the day or whenever power is convenient.
    So far, 10k exposures and zero battery problems
    -bob

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    For future reference, I believe it was Cam from the Small Sensor Forum, who said that putting your batteries in a small neoprene case and putting them near your body (for instance, an inside shirt pocket), will extend the life in cold weather.

    My four batteries are all OEM Leica batteries. Are there any safe replacement batteries yet that anyone has found?

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Afaik there have been no unsafe ones reported. I have some no-brand ones at 5 Euro a piece from Hong Kong as emergency spares. They work just fine, only they need to be run down all the way, or they lose their calibration.
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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Thanks, Jaap. That is good to know. I remember early on, that there was talk of possibly voiding your warranty by using non-OEM batteries, so I have never tried any.

    There is a lot of difference between 5 Euro and the price of Leica OEM batteries.

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    My recent battery woes have been alleviated since I picked up a brand new one today in SF. But the original battery (only 4 months of use) refuses to take a full charge. The most I can get it to take is about a quarter full. I'll try Guy's suggestion for running it all the way down and then recharging. I hope that will fix it. Otherwise it looks like it might be a dud.

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Tim you may actually have a bad battery. maybe when you get home send to Leica in NJ or your dealer and tell them you may have a dud.
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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    I have a suspicion it's as dead as Elliot Spitzer's career. I'll follow your advice and contact David at Dale camera when I get home.

  18. #18
    pascal_meheut
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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    BTW, one of my 3 batteries had the kind of problem we discuss here: it was charging ok but on the day after, even if not shooting with the M8, it will be not have any juice in it.
    So I did a deep discharge by firing the camera over and over, more than 700 shots and now, it works fine.

    Thanks for the "letting the screen on" advice, it will be easier next time.

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Tim,
    Not that this may be of any help now, and not being sure of your method of travel on your recent California coast trip, but did you have the car charger attachment along to charge things while driving from place to place? I know it sounds a bit much, but after having batteries quit when I thought they were fine, it has saved me a few times to at least get some juice into it between stops, unless it was totally dead. (I keep all my car charger components for various devices in a small kit that I usually leave in the vehicle. I find that all those things do little good when left at home.)

    Hope that the deep discharge/recharge cycle "fixes" it, but as Guy mentioned, it may be worth returning it to dealer/Leica for replacement. It could really be a bad battery.

    LJ

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by pascal_meheut View Post
    BTW, one of my 3 batteries had the kind of problem we discuss here: it was charging ok but on the day after, even if not shooting with the M8, it will be not have any juice in it.
    So I did a deep discharge by firing the camera over and over, more than 700 shots and now, it works fine.

    Thanks for the "letting the screen on" advice, it will be easier next time.
    I'm a little nervous about the screen on. Maybe it is a computer thing and may not be the case here but what about burn in. See my engineering degree at failure point. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    pascal_meheut
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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Yes, I thought of that but on the other hand, LCDs are not supposed to burn. Firing the shutter 700 to 1000 times is risky too.

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Agree with the risk about using shutter actuations to deplete a battery. More stress on mechanicals than you want/need. For the LCD thing, I set my camera to not go to sleep, but I let the LCD go to sleep normally. Yes, this does take longer to drain the battery, but it also removes that worry about screen burn in, which should not be an issue with LCDs anyway.

    LJ

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by pascal_meheut View Post
    So I did a deep discharge by firing the camera over and over, more than 700 shots and now, it works fine.
    Pascal, that's an interesting data point, one I wouldn't be willing to do on my own camera. Did you set it on C and hold the button down for 5+ minutes or shoot more slowly? Did a blank or boring frame get written to the card on each shot? Did you have to stop when the card got full, or was there a way to fire steadily without having the shots recorded? How long did it take in all?

    The reason I ask is that from time to time I measure how cameras are designed to manage their power consumption. If you did record the shots, or at least the first and last of them, you could use CornerFix to read out the internal temperature in the camera, and see if the stress of such rapid shooting showed up as heating.

    The typical claim is about 400 exposures per battery charge. It took me about 6-7 hours to discharge my battery by leaving the LCD on in Play mode without firing a single shot when I was testing it last spring. So if 350 minutes is the battery life for an M8 just thinking, and 700 shots is the lifetime just shooting without time to think, then a typical 400 shots battery life means that the camera stays alert for no more than 20-30 seconds per shot. (My reasoning is that cocking the shutter 400 times uses 4/7 of the battery's energy, leaving 3/7 or no more than 150 minutes for the other functions.)

    Just wondering.

    scott

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Interesting Scott now we can't truly go by mine because they are suspect to begin with and your comments just may have enforced my thinking on my overall i think my batteries maybe at the end of there useful life. The reason I say that is because maybe only 3 or 4 hours to deplete mine. I just did the camera on the whole time and no LCD. Hmmm

    I have a little shoot today but will not get past 80 frames in this case though. i need to go out and burn some frames to see if this helped any.
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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    BTW Pascal nice of you to join the forum. Enjoy yourself
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    Pascal, that's an interesting data point, one I wouldn't be willing to do on my own camera. Did you set it on C and hold the button down for 5+ minutes or shoot more slowly? Did a blank or boring frame get written to the card on each shot? Did you have to stop when the card got full, or was there a way to fire steadily without having the shots recorded? How long did it take in all?
    Ok, I shot with a card, C mode, shutter 1/8000th, cap on the lens & jpeg.
    So I had to shot 5 or 6 images at a time and wait for the buffer to clear. It took me some timeto do the 700 actuations, 1 hour or more but basically, I was working on the computer with the M8 near me and pressing the shutter as a background task.

    I did not kept the images unfortunately but I can try to get them back tonight. The camera was pretty hot at the end but could still be hold hand no problem.

    BTW, 700 pictures is a low figure: it took more than 300 pictures to go to 2/3 rd on the indicator, almost the same to go to the 1/3 rd and then, the battery was empty quite suddenly.
    I had already done it to do a full cycle on a brand new battery and it took more than 1000 shots then.

  27. #27
    pascal_meheut
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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Ok, I retrieved some of the files and temperature went from 19C to 26C after 500 images shot in 1 hour 15 min.

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Interesting Scott now we can't truly go by mine because they are suspect to begin with and your comments just may have enforced my thinking on my overall i think my batteries maybe at the end of there useful life. The reason I say that is because maybe only 3 or 4 hours to deplete mine. I just did the camera on the whole time and no LCD. Hmmm

    I have a little shoot today but will not get past 80 frames in this case though. i need to go out and burn some frames to see if this helped any.
    That is interesting. I tried leaving the camera on and the LCD off on 4 different batteries. One was dead in maybe 3 hours, 2 others closer to 6 hrs and the last one longer than that. I have about 12K images on the M8 s and recharge everytime I use the camera. Always start with charged battery and formatted card. But I think Guy is right ...I probably need a few new batteries. Roger

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Hello Guy!
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Well after what went on in Moab with my batteries failing in the cold weather. i was inspired to deep recycle my batteries all six of them and almost done. But if you want to do this , here is the process turn camera on and drain to fully discharged than charge over again. Make sure in the menu you set camera to not turn off.
    Well, this is one of the best descriptions, to kill Li-Ion batteries indentionally.
    Now my batteries maybe close to end of useful life since there are countless recharging and over 30 k on my actuations with my bodies. not sure how long these batteries will truly last but if anyone will know it will most likely be me first since i had these since day one and maybe have shot more on them than most people. Hopefully this deep recycle will bring them back to life much better.
    From the view of the Li-Ion battery, a "full recharge cycle" is a recharge from below 50% capacity. Common batteries will accept 300-500 such recharges and than will die in short time.
    When recharging as soon as 70-80% capacity is reached, a recharge will not count (in the 300-500 range) and the battery will work its whole "chemical lifespan" (about 4-6 years).
    In case of fully discharge a Li-Ion battery, the probability to "underdischarge" is also very high and one or both cells could be irreversibly distroyed.

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Well interesting there still alive and well but have to be honest i have seen a bunch of reports on this and they contradict each other. Not sure what to make of that. Not being a engineer here so whatever works is fine with me but it needs to be clear. I have only done this twice but even leica recommends this to reset the camera. many other folks have also gone this route and seem okay. Now these were taken all the way down to exhaustion and took a full charge as I know it , maybe not. I need to get out there and shoot to see how long the life is, maybe it got shorter. But after the cold issue something needs to be addressed with mine.
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  31. #31
    wparsons
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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    With regard to life, I have 2 batteries for my D2, one a Leica battery, one a Panasonic, both of which are 4 years old.

    I had occasion to pull out the D2 recently and the batteries are fine. Unfortunately the sensor died when I checked the camera and the D2 went to Leica for sensor replacement this weekend.

    But the Li-ion batteries are just fine after 4 years.

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Hello Guy!
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Well interesting there still alive and well but have to be honest i have seen a bunch of reports on this and they contradict each other. Not sure what to make of that. Not being a engineer here so whatever works is fine with me but it needs to be clear. I have only done this twice but even leica recommends this to reset the camera. many other folks have also gone this route and seem okay. Now these were taken all the way down to exhaustion and took a full charge as I know it , maybe not. I need to get out there and shoot to see how long the life is, maybe it got shorter. But after the cold issue something needs to be addressed with mine.
    Of course, from the point of view of an user, you are quite right. I am sorry, that my first post (or reply, reading here from day one) is a kind of bad news.
    I am a chemist with almost 40 year of experience in (more or less) hobby electronics. Your advise - totally discharge - is correct for NiFe, NiCd and NiMh type of batteries, but in consequence, not for Li-Ion type of batteries.
    State of the art in manufacturing Li-Ion is far, far behind of that for NiXx batteries. I think, NiMh is on top of its product life cycle, well researched, but almost outdated (well, NiFe is still in use in "under day" mining).
    There exist only a few hints (in comparision to other type of batteries) how to handle Li-Ion more "live save". One of them is, never discharge them too low (although they will often survive such a mistreatment). Depending on manufacturing details, the significant voltages (min and max) differ in such a case, that high quality Li-Ion batteries will be as expensive as we know it.
    The capacity of any batterie is the product of voltage, current and time. It is obvious, that little increase of charge voltage will significantly increase the capacity. So manufacturers of batteries always tend to make the max. charge voltage as high as possible (and also the min discharge voltage as low as possible). You can see this often in advertisement of second source batteries, which have much more "typical" capacity than regular batteries.
    This advantage is bought by slightly increasing max charge voltage. (0.05 - 0.1V) and/or slightly decreasing min discharge voltage.
    Batteries of a certain brand are always sorted out, which means, they are of a well defined charge/discharge voltage assignement, and consequently their price is adequatly higher.
    And not forgetting the most important hint, recharge your Li-Ion battery as often as you can and do not wait till it is discharged more than 70 to 80 percent. On my M8 (and 5D), I instantly recharge, when one of the marks in the battery indicator removes. I do this also in my mobile phone and in my laptop.
    In some series of IBM laptops (ThinkPad) there is a capacity quality monitor, which is a simple counter, starting at the value of 100 and each discharge below 50% decreases this counter by one. Often the battery is already unuseable when count goes down to 20...

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Guy -- I'm well-read on the subject of batteries, but not a real chemist. You are hearing two points made -- it costs and imposes a risk to completely discharge a Li-Ion battery, and from the battery's point of view, there is no need to do it if you can keep it always nearly topped off. Second, the charge monitors that are in the camera and in the battery get confused from shallow recharging, but can be reset by a single deep charge.

    I've seen the monitor effect for years. An IBM colleague in the group which developed the ThinkPad laptop once measured the apparent battery capacity in every one of the group's laptops after a year of each one sitting attached to an AC charger, and found that all had lost about half of their apparent capacity, probably due to the confused monitor effect. So I think the cost of an infrequent deep discharge is what we pay for having an accurate indication, and it is optional.

    scott

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Thanks Isaac and Scott , honestly the best clean advice i have seen on this. So let me ask the question and i will repeat it for Isaac since he does not know what happened. When i was in Moab Utah doing the workshop in the cold i had many shutdowns compared to everyone else , there were a few others that had issues but i was the worst. Maybe 8-10 times i had to switch batteries because it died on me. Now i also have the most of anyone of charges and usage on these batteries. Maybe 30 k in exposures and countless charging. i top off like you guys mentioned, get home from a shoot and just throw them on the chargers and get ready for the next shoot.

    I guess the question is this , are mine just worn out from time and use. I know this can happen and sounds like the case.

    Now when the camera and batteries are not resetting the charge monitors that are in the camera and in the battery gets confused from shallow recharging, but can be reset by a single deep charge. I stole your line here Scott. But what advice should we be doing and how,so forum members get this correct.
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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    We have to remember that the suggestion was to discharge the battery using the M8. I assume the M8 will shut down before the battery voltage gets so low as to damage the battery.

    In regards to the Thinkpad batteries and monitor program, it will suggest a recondition which involves unplugging the laptop and turning off the shut off timers to drain the battery, much like Guy described in his first post of this thread.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    You do have a point Robert , the camera just shuts down which could do that before the point of complete discharge of the battery. There actually could be some life to them but just the camera see's the battery as not having enough juice to run it and shuts down.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  37. #37
    fotografr
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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    Tim,
    Not that this may be of any help now, and not being sure of your method of travel on your recent California coast trip, but did you have the car charger attachment along to charge things while driving from place to place? I know it sounds a bit much, but after having batteries quit when I thought they were fine, it has saved me a few times to at least get some juice into it between stops, unless it was totally dead. (I keep all my car charger components for various devices in a small kit that I usually leave in the vehicle. I find that all those things do little good when left at home.)

    Hope that the deep discharge/recharge cycle "fixes" it, but as Guy mentioned, it may be worth returning it to dealer/Leica for replacement. It could really be a bad battery.

    LJ
    I've always been reluctant to use the car charger because I've heard the batteries can be damaged if they are removed from the charger before charging is completed. Since I'm normally not in the car long enough for a full charge, I avoid doing it.

    Anyone else know about this?

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    Subscriber Member jaapv's Avatar
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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    I can't think of any reason why that should be the case. Whether you feed your charger with 12 V or with 110-240 V the output to the battery should be the same (except from some residual cycles for AC, it is not very sophisticated)
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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by robsteve View Post
    We have to remember that the suggestion was to discharge the battery using the M8. I assume the M8 will shut down before the battery voltage gets so low as to damage the battery.
    I would think so as well. I have two old (5000 exposures) batteries and two new ones coming soon, so I'll do a little testing on this.

    In regards to the Thinkpad batteries and monitor program, it will suggest a recondition which involves unplugging the laptop and turning off the shut off timers to drain the battery, much like Guy described in his first post of this thread.
    That's what people do today. But this experience was about 10 years ago. There's one other interesting aspect with laptops -- most of them can be operated with only the AC converter plugged in and the battery removed. From time to time I have had what seems like a totally dead battery in a laptop, and find that removing the battery lets me get booted up, then replacing the battery leaves everything working just fine. Another reason why the M8 should have an aux power input, to prevent some of the causes of apparent SDS.

    scott

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I guess the question is this , are mine just worn out from time and use. I know this can happen and sounds like the case.
    I'm just suggesting that before you give up on them, try one deep discharge and recharge and see if they come back.

    scott

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    I'm just suggesting that before you give up on them, try one deep discharge and recharge and see if they come back.

    scott
    It would be worthwhile to read how nikon handles their "smart" lithium ion batteries from a condition perspective. Their is a menu item on the D3 which tells you the state of the life of the battery and recommends when to do a conditioning. The chargers they provide handle the chore very well.

    Personally i use the strategy of recharging all batteries at the end of each shooting day. The batteries are never discharged more than what occurred as a result of the shoot. i have two of the original Nov 2006 batteries and bought an additional two about six months later and have had no problems. Maybe just luck but at least it's good luck for a change.

    Woody

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    I'm just suggesting that before you give up on them, try one deep discharge and recharge and see if they come back.

    scott
    Exactly what I am going to do . Not in any hurry to spend 800 on batteries
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Recycle M8 batteries

    Hello Guy!
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I guess the question is this , are mine just worn out from time and use. I know this can happen and sounds like the case.
    Yes, I suppose - in your language - your batteries are "worn out". But the reason why is not so easy to describe. Such a battery is in fact an electrochemical system, which is mainly temperature dependent in all its properties, which are 'internal resistance', 'free diffusion of iones' and at last the result of the Nernst equation (temperatur dependency of the voltage of a cell).
    The biggest missbenefit is the internal resistance of the electrochemical cell. This resistance is a parasitic load which consumes energy inside the cell only (produces heat). According to the law of Ohm, this internal resistance decreases the useable cell voltage between its two output electrodes. If a load is applied to the output (in our case the M8 :-), depending on the working state of the camera, a certain current is flowing. Our friend Ohm tells us exactly (U = I x R), how much volts we loose in the cell itself. The bigger the current, the bigger the lost voltage. And of course, the bigger the internal resistance of the cell, the bigger the lost voltage again.
    So - as a first approach - all we have to fight against, is the internal resistance. This internal resistance is a function of more than one physical and/or chemical effect. The mobility of the charge carrier, the macro and micro state of the electrolytical compound, the surface of the internal electrodes are all influenced by charging and discharging and are some of the sources of wearing out. You can compare it with a truck, full with glass bottles (our stored current) and everytime the battery is discharged, we take some bottles from the truck. In the other way, when charging, we put some new bottles on to the truck. You can imaginge, how sensible this would be, to prevent all the glass bottles from breaking. If enough glass is broken, we can not unload all the bottles behind all the broken glas, so we have to think, the truck is empty.
    Now when the camera and batteries are not resetting the charge monitors that are in the camera and in the battery gets confused from shallow recharging, but can be reset by a single deep charge.
    The great benefit of a Li-Ion electrochemical cell ist, that the present voltage is a (documented) function of the state of charge of the cell. There is no mystery behind the charge monitor, it is a simple voltage meter. Only the degree of charge/discharge has to be defined (once, by the producer) for a given type of cell.
    As long as the charge and discharge current is low enough, the voltage/time gradient is constant for the whole lifetime of the cell and we can measure the charge state with very high precision!
    The game (of measuring) is quite different, if the charge/discharge current increases to such a value, that the internal resistance of the cell must be included to the voltage/time function (you can verify this by looking into the data sheets of the cells).
    A new cell has intentionally a compareable very low internal resistance, the absolut value (unit Ohm, greek capital letter omega) is no absolut constant, but is highly dependent of the manufacturing process and (from the view of the enduser) the quality control. But nevertheless, the internal resistance is always existing and influences the voltage/time gradient of any charge/discharge cycle. And therefor it also influences the min and max voltage of charge/discharge. A slight difference in internal resistance moves significantly the endpoints of charge and discharge.
    Now - to finalize - take into account, that your camera consumes different amount of current, depending on ambient temperatur and the momentarly state of usage (cocking the shutter, writing to memory card, holding the solenoid of the shutter curtain and so on).
    And according to the above mentioned law of Ohm, the voltage between the two connectors of the batteries differs permanently. The battery monitor is - I assume - working only in distinct intervals and depending on the point of measurement, the voltage may have any value in the range "battery full", "battery partly full" or even "battery empty".
    The live with such an device has to extreme limits from "never use" to "use it clever". Your only chance, to have the biggest possible benefit from your battery is, to keep internal resistance as low as possible. One of the best ways in this direction is, to minimize the degree of discharge before recharge. Omit discharge below 50% of the capacity.
    Sideproblem: low ambient temperature and resulting low temperature of the electrochemical cell itself. Below 0C your game is lost prematurly. Your rechargeable battery (secundarly element) converts itself to a primarly element (not rechargeable). The German language differs more precisely (Akkumulator - Batterie) but I hope, the message was transmitted well.
    This - limited usablity below 0C - is mainly a (bad) property of 'non liquid' (gelatinous) electrolyte containing cells.

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