Mike Hatam
Senior Subscriber Member
Re: The All New More and More Fun w/M9 Images
Inviting (50 lux asph):
Inviting (50 lux asph):
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The All New More and More Fun With Digital M Images
- Thread starter Guy Mancuso
- Start date
Re: The All New More and More Fun w/M9 Images
A few more from Alcatraz...
White Balance Nightmare - outside the Power Building (WATE @ 21mm):
Mike,
you see white balance nightmare, I see beautiful colors !
VERY nice images from "the Rock" !
Glenn
Re: The All New More and More Fun w/M9 Images
PLEASE STOP with the WATE images (you too Mike) !!!
I'm saving my pennies for a M9 (on a list, like almost everyone else
).
I just CAN'T start lusting after another expensive lens!!!
Glenn
(new owner of a used 35 Lux asph )
Jono,Heaven's above!
All taken this afternoon with the WATE.
PLEASE STOP with the WATE images (you too Mike) !!!
I'm saving my pennies for a M9 (on a list, like almost everyone else
).I just CAN'T start lusting after another expensive lens!!!
Glenn
(new owner of a used 35 Lux asph
)
jonoslack
Active member
Re: The All New More and More Fun w/M9 Images
Glen, Graham
Apologies for being so unfeeling and difficult.
I sympathise, I really do (I'm on a list too!)
There are a few WATE's around secondhand - I think some people felt that it was unnecessary on the M9, before realising how good it is (Reynolds was saved from a terrible mistake).
Maybe now is the time to find one.
Glen, Graham
Apologies for being so unfeeling and difficult.
I sympathise, I really do (I'm on a list too!)
There are a few WATE's around secondhand - I think some people felt that it was unnecessary on the M9, before realising how good it is (Reynolds was saved from a terrible mistake).
Maybe now is the time to find one.
N
nei1
Guest
Re: The All New More and More Fun w/M9 Images
So the wate is special in more ways than just being a 3 in 1,does it add something more to the image than any of the 3 primes ?or is it that it doesnt take any thing away from the primes;...it is their equal,and so nicer to carry and just as good from whatever f-stop it starts at...........Or,is it better?
p.s.Jono its one thing to spend your hard earned cash on a M9 but dont you think hiring fighter pilots just to impress here is a little extravagant!?
So the wate is special in more ways than just being a 3 in 1,does it add something more to the image than any of the 3 primes ?or is it that it doesnt take any thing away from the primes;...it is their equal,and so nicer to carry and just as good from whatever f-stop it starts at...........Or,is it better?
p.s.Jono its one thing to spend your hard earned cash on a M9 but dont you think hiring fighter pilots just to impress here is a little extravagant!?
jonoslack
Active member
Re: The All New More and More Fun w/M9 Images
HI Neil
Love the new avatar . . .
They're there in a flash in their sexy machines (I just put that in to give Guy a thrill!).
HI Neil
Love the new avatar . . .
Well, there aren't too many 16mm primes around!. General concensus is that the 18mm super-elmarit has more contrast and possibly slightly better distortion. Still, the WATE is great on the M9 (it starts at f4 - if you want to shoot wide angle wide open then obviously it's not for you.
You don't have to pay them - just give 'em a call and say you'd like them to fly over the local church at 600mph .
They're there in a flash in their sexy machines (I just put that in to give Guy a thrill!).
woodyspedden
New member
Re: The All New More and More Fun w/M8 Images
I love the shot of the dog and the puddle. Reminds me so much of Henri Cartier Bressons shot of the man jumping the puddle. Good chuckle to start my day
Woody
Arne
I love the shot of the dog and the puddle. Reminds me so much of Henri Cartier Bressons shot of the man jumping the puddle. Good chuckle to start my day
Woody
jonoslack
Active member
Re: The All New More and More Fun w/M8 Images
I was a little confused too!
I hope it was good?
HI Danielargh, i forgot why i said this. i guess my train of thoughts went into the black hole while typing
I was a little confused too!
I hope it was good?
Mike Hatam
Senior Subscriber Member
Re: The All New More and More Fun w/M9 Images
It is not a better performer than the Leica 18, Zeiss 18, Leica 21, or Zeiss 21 lenses at equivalent focal lengths, and the WATE is a slower lens (at 21mm).
The great benefit of the WATE for me is that it's a 3-in-1 lens that is very good when stopped down to f5.6 or f8. There is a big difference between 16mm and 21mm (about 30% difference in focal length - the equivalent difference between 75mm and 100mm).
My 28 cron is my standard walk-around wide-angle, but I need something wider, especially for architecture. I was using a ZM 21 Biogon as my wide lens, but sometimes I needed something even wider than that. I like the Zeiss 18/4, but it's too wide at times. And then there are times when I want "really wide". I used to use the CV 15 (even the CV 12 on the M8), but those lenses are not well suited for the M9 (cyan shift).
So do I carry two lenses (18 and 21), and give up the super-wide 15-16mm focal length? Space in my bag is at a premium, since I travel a lot. So it makes a big difference to me to be able to eliminate redundant lenses.
So the WATE becomes the best solution. 16-18-21, all in one lens. Remove the hood (it vignettes on an M9), and replace it with the 67mm filter adapter (to protect the front element), and the lens is also fairly compact. It's smaller than the Zeiss 18/4.
EDIT: as pointed out in follow-on posts below, the hood does NOT vignette on the M9 if the Millich filter adapter is removed.
I use my M9 for landscape and architecture shooting, often tripod mounted (all my Alcatraz shots above are tripod mounted). In those situations, I'm generally working in low light, stopped down to f8 (for depth of field), and using long exposures. For that type of situation, the WATE is ideal. I can click through the various focal lengths to find one that's just right, stop down to f8, and get fantastic images.
If you are only a "walk-around" shooter, and would never use a tripod, the WATE might be too slow for you. In that case, the ZM 21 Biogon, or M 21 Elmarit are probably the best choices for you (both are very good at f2.8). If you don't mind a very large lens, and have the cash, then an M 21 Summilux might be the choice (too large and expensive for me, and doesn't match my shooting style).
For me, the combination of the 28 cron for hand-held walk-around shooting, with the WATE for tripod mounted wide-angle work, is a perfect combination.
My thoughts on the WATE...
It is not a better performer than the Leica 18, Zeiss 18, Leica 21, or Zeiss 21 lenses at equivalent focal lengths, and the WATE is a slower lens (at 21mm).
The great benefit of the WATE for me is that it's a 3-in-1 lens that is very good when stopped down to f5.6 or f8. There is a big difference between 16mm and 21mm (about 30% difference in focal length - the equivalent difference between 75mm and 100mm).
My 28 cron is my standard walk-around wide-angle, but I need something wider, especially for architecture. I was using a ZM 21 Biogon as my wide lens, but sometimes I needed something even wider than that. I like the Zeiss 18/4, but it's too wide at times. And then there are times when I want "really wide". I used to use the CV 15 (even the CV 12 on the M8), but those lenses are not well suited for the M9 (cyan shift).
So do I carry two lenses (18 and 21), and give up the super-wide 15-16mm focal length? Space in my bag is at a premium, since I travel a lot. So it makes a big difference to me to be able to eliminate redundant lenses.
So the WATE becomes the best solution. 16-18-21, all in one lens. Remove the hood (it vignettes on an M9), and replace it with the 67mm filter adapter (to protect the front element), and the lens is also fairly compact. It's smaller than the Zeiss 18/4.
EDIT: as pointed out in follow-on posts below, the hood does NOT vignette on the M9 if the Millich filter adapter is removed.
I use my M9 for landscape and architecture shooting, often tripod mounted (all my Alcatraz shots above are tripod mounted). In those situations, I'm generally working in low light, stopped down to f8 (for depth of field), and using long exposures. For that type of situation, the WATE is ideal. I can click through the various focal lengths to find one that's just right, stop down to f8, and get fantastic images.
If you are only a "walk-around" shooter, and would never use a tripod, the WATE might be too slow for you. In that case, the ZM 21 Biogon, or M 21 Elmarit are probably the best choices for you (both are very good at f2.8). If you don't mind a very large lens, and have the cash, then an M 21 Summilux might be the choice (too large and expensive for me, and doesn't match my shooting style).
For me, the combination of the 28 cron for hand-held walk-around shooting, with the WATE for tripod mounted wide-angle work, is a perfect combination.
Last edited:
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Re: The All New More and More Fun w/M9 Images
Nice report Mike. I owned the WATE for a time being and it is a very handy lens and covers a nice range.
Nice report Mike. I owned the WATE for a time being and it is a very handy lens and covers a nice range.
jonoslack
Active member
Re: The All New More and More Fun w/M9 Images
I have looked as well.
The benefit of having those three focal lengths in one lens is wonderful, and the downsides are very small.
The church and sky pictures early in this thread were all taken hand held just before dusk - they're as sharp as a new pin!
Excellent stuff Mike - but a couple of points
I haven't found that - as long as you remove the the Millich IR holder!
I have looked as well.
I find it wonderful for casual landscape and travel photography - you can hand hold the WATE down to silly speeds on the M9, and anyway, for that kind of work you're likely to want to use smaller apertures than F4.
The benefit of having those three focal lengths in one lens is wonderful, and the downsides are very small.
The church and sky pictures early in this thread were all taken hand held just before dusk - they're as sharp as a new pin!
Well, I agree about the 'cron, but there's no need to put the WATE on a tripod (especially with the wonderful spirit level in the frankenfinder).
Lloyd
Active member
Re: The All New More and More Fun w/M9 Images
Kurt, this is some really good stuff. That lens on the M9 = a marriage made in heaven. (At least in your capable hands.) :thumbup:
Mike Hatam
Senior Subscriber Member
Re: The All New More and More Fun w/M9 Images
Good news on the hood. Mine has the Milich adapter (it came that way with the lens I bought - used), so I wasn't aware that I could decouple the adapter and use the hood by itself. I'll give that a try - that would be a good solution.
I agree that the WATE is very usable hand-held, and have used it that way myself as well. I generally set it at f5.6 when hand-held, and f8 when on the tripod.
But for street shooters who like to shoot at f2.8 or faster, that's where the other lenses make more sense.
I don't know about you, but I personally have stopped using the Frankenfinder. I just shoot, check the LCD, and if necessary, shoot again with a slightly different composition.
When tripod mounted, the FrankenFinder is totally unnecessary, as it's easy to make very controlled adjustments to the composition, and check them periodically with test shots.
Overall, the WATE is a terrific lens. I've seen some selling for around $3,400 used (not bad when compared to the prices of a combination of 21 Elmarit + M 18).
I suspect the prices will go up, as people discover what a great lens this is on the M9.
Mike
Jono - thanks for these clarifications.
Good news on the hood. Mine has the Milich adapter (it came that way with the lens I bought - used), so I wasn't aware that I could decouple the adapter and use the hood by itself. I'll give that a try - that would be a good solution.
I agree that the WATE is very usable hand-held, and have used it that way myself as well. I generally set it at f5.6 when hand-held, and f8 when on the tripod.
But for street shooters who like to shoot at f2.8 or faster, that's where the other lenses make more sense.
I don't know about you, but I personally have stopped using the Frankenfinder. I just shoot, check the LCD, and if necessary, shoot again with a slightly different composition.
When tripod mounted, the FrankenFinder is totally unnecessary, as it's easy to make very controlled adjustments to the composition, and check them periodically with test shots.
Overall, the WATE is a terrific lens. I've seen some selling for around $3,400 used (not bad when compared to the prices of a combination of 21 Elmarit + M 18).
I suspect the prices will go up, as people discover what a great lens this is on the M9.
Mike
Mike Hatam
Senior Subscriber Member
Re: The All New More and More Fun w/M9 Images
Nice light Kurt. I really like the 3rd shot (tree) - that shallow DOF is very pleasing.
jonoslack
Active member
Re: The All New More and More Fun w/M9 Images
Truth is, that it might be ugly, but it's no higher than most other viewfinders, and therefore it doesn't really take up any more space.
No sweat, you can simply unscrew it, then unscrew the Milich adaptor and screw the hood back on (30 seconds).
I love it - it's soooo accurate (the framelines), and it's great for framing. If there is any chance of using the WATE when I go out, I simply add the frankender and leave it on the camera.
Truth is, that it might be ugly, but it's no higher than most other viewfinders, and therefore it doesn't really take up any more space.
I quite agree about prices - the fact of not having to fiddle about with menus suddenly makes it really nice to use.
