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Thread: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

  1. #101
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Ancient history. But we all do try to learn from history.

    Being a reviewer has to be a bitch and a half. Between a rock and a hard place ... and all that.

    I personally don't know where the integrity line is drawn ... that IR thing was no small issue, and it had to be embarrassing for all concerned no matter what their intentions or communications may have been.

    Since the reviewers were not blind, they had to have noted it. However, if they were "blind sided" by being asked to not mention it, because Leica said they were working on it ... and didn't ... well, once bitten, twice shy.

    It is simply a cautionary tale that trust is a very valuable thing, and once smudged is difficult to restore fully.

    -Marc

  2. #102
    ddk
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI David
    Anyway, I think you've made your position pretty clear, and we absolutely agree on the events, so shall we shake hands nicely and agree to differ on the interpretation?
    Deal!

  3. #103
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Thank You Gentleman. How about a beer to go with it. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  4. #104
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Thank You Gentleman. How about a beer to go with it. LOL
    Sounds great - I assume that you're buying?

    come to think of it Guy . . . don't you owe me a steak dinner!

    Just this guy you know

  5. #105
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Ah . . . and I'll be in Holland - ships in the night stuff . . . and it would have been such a good excuse for a pint
    And I will be be Brussels the week of Oct 12.
    Belgian beer and Mussels perhaps?
    -bob

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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Oh yes!!!!!!!!! Belgian Moules and beer

    I am old Bob but I can still carry quite a load for you

    Woody

  7. #107
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Sounds great - I assume that you're buying?

    come to think of it Guy . . . don't you owe me a steak dinner!
    I think you slightly had a little inside information on that bet.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  8. #108
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I think you slightly had a little inside information on that bet.
    Isn't that the best kind of bet.... a safe one?

  9. #109
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    I was testing him. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  10. #110
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    You cruel cruel people
    Moules . . .
    I love Moules, but after an unhealthy week of eating them in Biarritz 20 years ago, I developed an allergy, I still love the smell,and Emma loves to torment me by eating them,

    As for inside information . . pshaw, I could have been wrong? They might have changed it? (to be honest, I can't remember the discussion point) . . all I remember is that there was a bet for a steak dinner. I was all for including the air fare to go with it, but Guy (what a coward) drew the line at the dinner. Otherwise I would have been able to come to the Workshop and drink beer.

    Just this guy you know

  11. #111
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    And I will be be Brussels the week of Oct 12.
    Belgian beer and Mussels perhaps?
    -bob
    Tragic
    I'm actually in the south of Holland next week, and Brussels for an evening would have been fine . . but that's next week!

    Have a great trip anyway. Is this business or pleasure?

    Just this guy you know

  12. #112
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    You cruel cruel people
    Moules . . .
    I love Moules, but after an unhealthy week of eating them in Biarritz 20 years ago, I developed an allergy, I still love the smell,and Emma loves to torment me by eating them,

    As for inside information . . pshaw, I could have been wrong? They might have changed it? (to be honest, I can't remember the discussion point) . . all I remember is that there was a bet for a steak dinner. I was all for including the air fare to go with it, but Guy (what a coward) drew the line at the dinner. Otherwise I would have been able to come to the Workshop and drink beer.
    You get to the Oregon workshop i will buy all the beer you can drink and all the steak you can eat.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  13. #113
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Tragic
    I'm actually in the south of Holland next week, and Brussels for an evening would have been fine . . but that's next week!

    Have a great trip anyway. Is this business or pleasure?
    I am adding about four pleasure days to a two day business trip.
    That is a tolerable ratio.
    -bob

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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    when last visiting paris with my 18 year old son, with my paltry menu-level french, i suggested he order the special at this small cafe. I thought the item was moules, something i recognized. Instead it was a similar word (to my eye) and came back as some sort of codfish gruel, not to his taste at all. like a trooper he ate it all

  15. #115
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    You get to the Oregon workshop i will buy all the beer you can drink and all the steak you can eat.
    You don't know how much danger you're in

    I'll let you off the hook this time though.

    Just this guy you know

  16. #116
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    I am adding about four pleasure days to a two day business trip.
    That is a tolerable ratio.
    -bob
    Sounds good to me . .. my dutch trip is three days business . . . hrumph!

    Just this guy you know

  17. #117
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    morue

    a salt cod... usually pretty good

    :-)

    Victor

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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    You don't know how much danger you're in

    I'll let you off the hook this time though.
    Jono, no OFF THE HOOK here. I will back Guy's offer -- we WILL buy you all the beer you can drink for the entire trip and the biggest steak dinner you can find if you are at the workshop (Of course you may get inadvertently put to work showing off the M9!!!)
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    man, do these threads take off on their own.

    speaking to the OP topic: i read every review Sean writes. I found the M9 review to be quite complete and surpassing his usual standard for thoroughness and completeness. My God, it must be over 10,000 words and contain 40-50 pictures. And as far as the M9 goes, the review was written by a rangefinder specialist who uses them for weddings, the ultimate throwdown!
    personally, there might even be too much information for me to digest, but you sure learn a lot about the camera.

    the several other M9 reviews by other reviewers are certainly interesting and informative as well, but for depth, nothing compares to the Reid.
    I am continually amazed that anyone considering a $7-10K leica investment would hesitate to pay his paltry annual fee.

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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Tragic
    I'm actually in the south of Holland next week, and Brussels for an evening would have been fine . . but that's next week!

    Have a great trip anyway. Is this business or pleasure?
    Jono, i live in Holland, in Almere to be precise. Possibility to meet? You can stay in my place if it suits you.
    Gives me a chance to fel this M9 ;-)

    Jan R.

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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Quote Originally Posted by JanRSmit View Post
    Jono, i live in Holland, in Almere to be precise. Possibility to meet? You can stay in my place if it suits you.
    Gives me a chance to fel this M9 ;-)

    Jan R.
    HI Jan
    It'd be great to meet you, and that's a wonderful offer. . . but I think I'm at the wrong end of Holland (Bergen op Zoom), and I will, unfortunately, be working. I'm sure I could squeeze in a drink (I can always squeeze in a drink ), but with your lovely Dutch roads it might be quite a long drive!

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    HI Jan
    It'd be great to meet you, and that's a wonderful offer. . . but I think I'm at the wrong end of Holland (Bergen op Zoom), and I will, unfortunately, be working. I'm sure I could squeeze in a drink (I can always squeeze in a drink ), but with your lovely Dutch roads it might be quite a long drive!
    Jono,

    Just send you a email to suggest a time and place

    Jan R.

  23. #123
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    JLM
    congrats on the "KILO-Posts!!

    Victor

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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    It is funny I read Reid reviews for a while then do not re up bottom line, I could not stand voigtlander lenses that he liked. I bought the 50 nokton and the 15 got purple fringing more flare and a lack of snap. I have different tastes then him and that is not a knock of Sean just I have a different sense of what I want in a lens. I feel for Sean in that I believe he got blindsided by the ir problems of the m8 that he did, says something else to me. If you look at me website and see my new orleans shots you will see what I want out of the m8 and now I got a m9 . I go to New Orleans this weekend. PS When a internet writer gets makes a mistake they tend to go nuts trying to get there integrity rep back . sometimes aat the expense of a product . I am thinking of Galbraith and his punishing Canon mk 111 on its autofocus performance it is now a great camera and yet Galbraith keeps saying it sucks.
    www.davidseelig.com

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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    yahoo, one grand!

  26. #126
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Congrats John. All 1003 great posts too. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  27. #127
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Without wanting to bring dead horses to life... but I am not sure that this one is quite dead...

    I want to add my 2 cents. I found my way with the original M8 and lenses mainly because of Reid Reviews, to which I still subscribe and the content of which I greatly value. I was more than a little surprised, therefore, to see the implication higher up this thread that Sean Reid had somehow been a patsy for Leica when the facts are so clearly different: my clear memory, and this is confirmed by checking the site, is that Sean just did not notice the IR issue first off, at all. Partly because no-one those days thought to check for it, partly because he mostly works in B&W and partly because no-one can remember the colour of the jackets of the thousand strangers who crossed his viewfinder that day. As soon as it came to his notice he covered it, its effects, causes and remedies, exhaustively.

    I hope that no real harm was meant by the implication that Sean behaved improperly but I do think that people need to consider carefully the value of someone like Sean's reputation and integrity. He is clearly a gifted working photographer and a thorough reviewer. One might (though I would not) want to criticise him for not being thorough enough in not testing specifically for IR contamination but then there was absolutely no precedent to suggest that he should. But to suggest that he alters his reviews to suit a manufacturer is to imply to people who are not familiar with his work that it is compromised. This affects both his reputation and the economic viability of his review work and I think that is deeply unfair.

    It's in the nature of the review world that if a manufacturer lets you get hold of something first, it reinforces your reputation as a reviewer. We all want to get informed opinion on new gear as quickly as possible. So for Sean, Michael R and others, being taken to Germany to get first dibs at the M9 helps bolster their reputations and their revenues streams (to which they are perfectly well entitled if their work is good). But to allow oneself to interpret that as a sign of lack of independence is to misunderstand the grown up realities of the world of reviewing: in fact one of the main things I pay for with Sean is quite specifically his independence, in which I have 100% faith.

    It's easy in a world of disappointing behaviour by public figures to allow one's cynicism to overcome one's intelligence and to over-ride one's analytical abilities. But it's not fair to do so.

    Tim

  28. #128
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    It's easy in a world of disappointing behaviour by public figures to allow one's cynicism to overcome one's intelligence and to over-ride one's analytical abilities. But it's not fair to do so.

    Tim
    I guess this is aimed squarely at me, which is fine. Think whatever you want of my cynicism; FACT remains that it didn't take the average user 24hrs to discover the IR issue. Both Reichman and Askey caught the problem early on and were told by Leica to hush up. Reid & Reichmann have either a friendship or professional relation of sorts and I find it hard to believe that they never discussed such a big issue. Neither do I believe that Askey and Reichman were the only ones asked by Leica not the mention the problem before the launch of the camera. Difference is that both these gentlemen came clean, which I respect.

    You believe that he didn't catch a problem that took many others less than a day to see, fine, then he wasn't diligent with his review and missed such a major and unserviceable problem, either way he let his subscribers down...

    PS. I fully agree with what you say about public figures Tim, but I've also been around the block a few times both as a manufacturer and a distributor of products, I have an insight as to how things work in the real world too.

  29. #129
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    Re: Sean Reid s Review of the M9

    Folks, continuing this discussion is pointless as no new *constructive* data is being shared, so time to close it down.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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